X16 Preview

Re: X16 Preview

Ron Kimball said:
I keep lobbying for a "Little League" forum here LOL :D. If it isn't suitable for rental or a visiting BE's use but only for purchase by an end user maybe it belongs there? Nobody sane is gonna rent out a DL1608 or StageScape :).
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Ron, the tagline for this forum is, "Topics for weekend warriors, hobbyists, and our other "friends with a day job", which is slightly different than what you describe. Nobody may rent out a DL1608 or StageScape, but they might fit the bill for many of us. I have both the DL1608 and SL 24.4.2 and they do the job for me.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Eric Valenzuela said:
Ron, the tagline for this forum is, "Topics for weekend warriors, hobbyists, and our other "friends with a day job", which is slightly different than what you describe. Nobody may rent out a DL1608 or StageScape, but they might fit the bill for many of us. I have both the DL1608 and SL 24.4.2 and they do the job for me.
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Yup - just seems like the crowd here is more smaller full time and serious part-timers looking to "move up" - not so much those doing sound for their own band from the stage types or the "hobbyists" mentioned who might be interested in these new smaller mixers. No big deal, there are other forums :).
 
Re: X16 Preview

This being the JV, I think there are a lot of folks like me who would prefer to have a real console in a small format that can be hauled out to FOH to setup the band and then placed back on stage for the show. You can do it with an ipad but faders and knobs are hard to beat. I love the X32 but it's too big for my truck pack and with the in/outs directly on the board the placement and movement is encumbered. A mini I-LIVE is exactly what should come next... please?
 
Re: X16 Preview

mark anderson said:
This being the JV, I think there are a lot of folks like me who would prefer to have a real console in a small format that can be hauled out to FOH to setup the band and then placed back on stage for the show. You can do it with an ipad but faders and knobs are hard to beat. I love the X32 but it's too big for my truck pack and with the in/outs directly on the board the placement and movement is encumbered. A mini I-LIVE is exactly what should come next... please?
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Have you tried using an iPad compatible mixer? It's really not as bad as I expected. I'm told you can even use an iLive stagebox without a "normal" surface - just an iPad.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Yes, the ilive even has a java based control system. You can assemble you're own interface. It's very cool. If A&H had a rack size board, I'd be on it.
 
Re: X16 Preview

mark anderson said:
Yes, the ilive even has a java based control system. You can assemble you're own interface. It's very cool. If A&H had a rack size board, I'd be on it.
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They do:
iLive-R72 | ALLEN & HEATH // WORLD CLASS MIXING

Oh, and to keep things clear the "board" AKA "mixer" is in the stagerack . The control surface is just that as the iPad is the control surface for the DL1608 - plus some remote I/O that is passed to/from the stagerack. I love that architecture and think of the DL1608 in that way - two control surfaces and the mixer itself for $1600 :cool:.
 
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Re: X16 Preview

I didn't realize that was a rack mount. Over 7K for a 9" tall mouse seems a bit rich when the rack unit is 5k. Looks like a healthy market for Uri though. Uri could do it for 3k total and move a lot of units. Just don't make the mouse so tall and heavy. It's a mouse. 1u maybe 2u max and 12 lbs or so. Battery would be nice for walking the floor preshow.

I like dreaming.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Dear All,

What an incredible response!

Over the past few months I have come to know many of you on this forum as not only true experts in sound reinforcement but also as passionate about the products you use and recommend.

This is the same kind of passion that we respect and encourage inside every department of our business from product development to marketing.

I have read carefully through all of your posts and discussed them internally, so allow me to clarify a couple of important points.

Some of you commented that this product didn't belong in the X series family; that it was considerably stripped-down from the X32.
In fact, the X16 is built on the very same DSP, AD/DA converters, code core with almost the same functionality and feature set as the X32. It uses 99% same firmware and the only differences are in I/O and the control surface. Most important it has the same high sound quality as the X32.

We build millions of analog mixers every year with similar I/O counts which leads us to believe that there are many users who would appreciate this configuration when combined with advanced signal processing capability.

The X16 has been designed based on many requests we received from end users as well as major dealers who asked for a compact and cost-effective solution.

With respect to the elements of the control surface I have stated elsewhere that we strongly believe in tactile controls for professional applications. Extensive testing with a variety of touch-screen technologies has concluded that they lack the accuracy and speed of dedicated physical faders, encoders and switches.

At the same time, a touch-screen tablet device offers tremendous mobility and flexibility, enough precision for a smaller system and represents a significant saving in cost over a dedicated control surface.

By now you might think that I am trying to sell you on the merits of the X16. I prefer to leave the selling to the sales department (I am an engineer, not a salesman) so that is not my intent. I simply want to share some of the discussion and considerations that have taken place in the definition of the X16.

But it is also important that you understand the X16 represents the other end of a product family spectrum from the X32; in other words, there are several other products in between these two.

I am in enough trouble with the development team for leaking the X16 so please don't ask for details on the rest of the products. :)~:)~:smile:

The formal introduction of the full X32 product range will take place at Winter NAMM in January. I will try to release a little bit more information to our growing family here on soundforums.net in advance, but if you really want to see and try out the whole X series family you'll want to come to NAMM.

I promise that you will not be disappointed!

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: X16 Preview

Hey, just add in the 1/8" stereo line input and a pair of A/D's (no trim knob needed, maybe a virtual digital one though) that Mackie left off and I'd be happy :D and/or at least AirPlay reception so you could play break music on your iPad/iPhone/iTouch when not physically connected :cool:.
 
Re: X16 Preview

I'm sure Uli won't respond to this .. but it does seem X16 was initially marketed as a smaller version of the x32. Based on this, I would have expected a Rackmount X32 - which would be bliss (and a great add on monitor console?).

Based on - "Although the S16 was initially designed for use with our flagship X32 and X16 digital consoles, any mixing board with AES50 networking capability can tap into the S16's powerful feature set. So if you happen to work on an analog mixing board occasionally, you could use two pairs of S16 and ADA8000 to form a high-performance, lightweight 16 x 16 digital snake— all on one CAT5 connection, keeping the preamp remote control functionality."

This comes from - http://www.behringer.com/assets/S16_Webbrochure.pdf

So it does read like the X16 was going to be an AES50 device. Maybe this changed, but what i would REALLY like to see ..

x32 - As is ..

x32R - Rackmount version .. maybe less faders and more layers (DCA's on a Layer instead?)? but still the 32ch functionality over AES50 and only 8 on the desk or something similar (a little A&Hish I know).

x16 - I actually think this product has a place .. but I REALLY think a rack equiv of the X32 is going to support the family, the x16 feels like it may "fragment" the good roadwork the x32 has thus far laid.

This would be a shame ..

Although it's hard to gauge the endgame based on Uli's little leaks .. it's still ok to fear a company, people are turning back to, going into a direction that would lose their customer confidence again.

Got a job for me Uli? :)

Cheers,
Brett

Uli Behringer said:
Dear All,

What an incredible response!

Over the past few months I have come to know many of you on this forum as not only true experts in sound reinforcement but also as passionate about the products you use and recommend.

This is the same kind of passion that we respect and encourage inside every department of our business from product development to marketing.

I have read carefully through all of your posts and discussed them internally, so allow me to clarify a couple of important points.

Some of you commented that this product didn't belong in the X series family; that it was considerably stripped-down from the X32.
In fact, the X16 is built on the very same DSP, AD/DA converters, code core with almost the same functionality and feature set as the X32. In fact it uses 99% same firmware and the only differences are in I/O and the control surface. Most important it has the same high sound quality as the X32.

We build millions of analog mixers every year with similar I/O counts which leads us to believe that there are many users who would appreciate this configuration when combined with advanced signal processing capability.

The X16 has been designed based on many requests we received from end users as well as major dealers who asked for a compact and cost-effective solution.

With respect to the elements of the control surface I have stated elsewhere that we strongly believe in tactile controls for professional applications. Extensive testing with a variety of touch-screen technologies has concluded that they lack the accuracy and speed of dedicated physical faders, encoders and switches.

At the same time, a touch-screen tablet device offers tremendous mobility and flexibility, enough precision for a smaller system and represents a significant saving in cost over a dedicated control surface.

By now you might think that I am trying to sell you on the merits of the X16. I prefer to leave the selling to the sales department (I am an engineer, not a salesman) so that is not my intent. I simply want to share some of the discussion and considerations that have taken place in the definition of the X16.

But it is also important that you understand the X16 represents the other end of a product family spectrum from the X32; in other words, there are several other products in between these two.

I am in enough trouble with the development team for leaking the X16 so please don't ask for details on the rest of the products. :)~:)~:smile:

The formal introduction of the full X32 product range will take place at Winter NAMM in January. I will try to release a little bit more information to our growing family here on soundforums.net in advance, but if you really want to see and try out the whole X series family you'll want to come to NAMM.

I promise that you will not be disappointed!

Warm regards

Uli
Click to expand...
 
Re: X16 Preview

Yous guys have to understand that iPad x16 is gonna outsell the x32 10-100x or more so Behringer isn't gonna care a whole lot about what yous guys have to say about it. Hopefully the inclusion of it as the lowest end "X" series won't get the entire series blacklisted on riders :( . Kinda like if A&H had made the Zed series part of the iLive series instead :?~:-?~:???:. IMO the X32 should have been released under the Midas moniker but what do I know ;). Sure would have saved yous guys a lot of angst and worry that it wouldn't be rider acceptable, no?
 
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Re: X16 Preview

@all: I'm in Spain right now, spending some days in the sun. Before I left, I paid the Behringer R&D a short visit. I saw two rough layouts of two other X Series mixers/devices, that are a completly other design, than this X16 version, that Uli showed in this thread. I strongly believe, that we will see some mindblowing X-series stuff early next year! This platform is so flexible, that It adresses so many tasks, with a propper layout and design. Let the good ideas comming, you might see them become real at Winter Namm.
Christian
 
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Re: X16 Preview

Brad Weber said:
not having talkback
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I've just been in contact with the developer of the "Talkback Mic" app and he's gonna add in AirPlay support for me. I've been able to get an AirPlay receiver app working on the iPads I have this morning :) so I can now play break music remotely from the wireless one to the docked one (should work with any iDevice with AirPlay support). I'm hoping the talkback app will be usable even with the significant latency of AirPlay. The internal mic will probably not be of much use (?) but I have an XLR interface for the iPad so I can use a switched mic. I do hope Mackie and Behringer can add an AirPlay receiver into their mixers so the docked (and hacked) iPad isn't needed :) .
 
Re: X16 Preview

Dear Uli,
while we don´t doubt that the tech platform is very similar between the two products, I personally believe that the tech in itself means very little, it is all a matter of what it can do and what it looks like, not what makes it tick.
There are a couple of things I´m wondreing about, things that in my opinion will make or break it at a truly usefull tool.

My impression is that there is no built in wifi or bluetooth, requiring either a solid connection or a wifi-adapter for function. I know there might be good reasons for not including either, price, rf-interference, rf-wear etc that might make the product more vulnerable, but not having some kind of wireless built in makes it a lot more cumbersome.

Assuming full scene recall, I´m still wondering about the pots, they definitely look like analogue thingies and are certainly ringing my alarm bells as far as preamp recall goes.

However, my main objection as an X32 owner is that this is not a product that really fits with my present investment in the X32 and S16, so I wouldn´t go out and buy it, but hold out for something not too dissimilar that would integrate better.

And speaking of integration, if the Ultranet interface was extended to include an input, it would at least have the potential to serve double duty, doubling as a glorified P16 with more bells and whistles than you could possibly need. Would of course like to see AES50 on it as well, but I guess that will add too much to the price and only be useful for a minority of potential users.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Hey everyone! This is my first post here. I enjoy that I can be here.

Ok. I found something intressting. I visited one of polish music store webpage and I saw this: Behringer X16 DIGITAL MIXER [X 16] - SKLEP MUZYCZNY. There's no price ("Price on call"), but description is very intressting:

"In Behringer X16 console we get 16 mic inputs or digital inputs with audiophile preamps (...). Special designed channel strip contains 17 backlighting buttons and 13 rotated LED encoders (...) for compressor, 4-band EQ and additional digital devices (...)."

I guess that's fake, but... maybe not.

Greetings :)
 
Re: X16 Preview

good, does not cost to post my thoughts again (source: X32 discussion).

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Uli BehringerDear all,

Over the past few months, many people have been reaching out to us and requested an iPad/PC Control remote control version of the X32 digital mixer without any physical control elements.

This could be either a tabletop or rack-mount version where you just connect your I/O’s plus a wireless router and you’re ready to go.

What is your view and could you please also share your requirements such as configuration, front or back connectors, price, etc?

Many thanks

Uli

P.S. Thanks Eric for spotting the connector issue in the manual. We will correct it in our next documentation version as the units are assembled correctly.



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Clayton Fernandes
follow my idea (draft image) :

Attachment 4721

16in/8out 96kHz 24bit on board

expandable 32in/16out 48kHz 24Bit with S-16

DSP mixer with FX (dinamic, gate, eq , reverb...)

control for Ipad, PC/Mac, BCF, ...

Thunderbolt compatible



I forgot to mention the estimated price that I consider appropriate:

between $ 1,000.00 and $ 1,500.00
 
Re: X16 Preview

Mateusz Ciesiółka;38880 said:
Hey everyone! This is my first post here. I enjoy that I can be here.

Ok. I found something intressting. I visited one of polish music store webpage and I saw this: Behringer X16 DIGITAL MIXER [X 16] - SKLEP MUZYCZNY. There's no price ("Price on call"), but description is very intressting:

"In Behringer X16 console we get 16 mic inputs or digital inputs with audiophile preamps (...). Special designed channel strip contains 17 backlighting buttons and 13 rotated LED encoders (...) for compressor, 4-band EQ and additional digital devices (...)."

I guess that's fake, but... maybe not.

Greetings :)
Click to expand...

I asked this music store about more informations. They sended me answer: "Behringer plans to introduce this model in future, but not in 2012." They added also some infos about product: Street Price: 6499 PLN (ca. 1600€; note that in Poland everything is more expensive -I guess street price will be ca. 1500€).

I think that at NAMM 2013 apart from X16 for the iPad, we'll see a smaller version of X32.
 
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Re: X16 Preview

Shane Presley said:
Add a button to that you can use all 16 faders for input channels if you wanted, or 2 x 8 on the left, and 8 groups on the right....
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See, that looks perfect to me, all the software power of the X32, 8 analogue, and the full AES I/O for S16s, Ultralink, Ethernet etc, but in a smaller form factor. And then there would be the X16r which is the same I/O but in a 1u box, with just a tiny LCD and a couple of buttons to set the IP address. (For those in the install marketplace - think what a fun option that would be!)

But realistically, given the X32 price point, how big a market would there be for an X16 like that? The X32 works at that price point because there is going to be a bucketload of them going out the door, a less spectacular seller probably means bigger margins, and then the price differential between the 32 and the 16 would be eroded to the point that you may as well by the X32.

The pic Uli posted is a thing going for a whole different market. One might even suggest that it is riding on the coat-tails and reputation of the X32. But I don't think may folks will be stuck in the position of choosing between the X32 and the new proposal, which I just don't want to call the X16.

And therein lies the problem. The range of products with the syntax [letter][digit][digit] all work together as a system, largely because of AES, and the consensus of disappointment (which I share) is that the proposed X16 isn't another part of the same system to inter-work and complement the existing stuff; its something different. That's not to say it isn't a great idea (which it clearly is a great idea) and that it wont sell by the truckload (which it probably will).

I think the suggested name of iX16 is good - it invokes the heritage :) but has a differentiator.
 
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