Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Thanks for that, Matt. I have been thinking about this overnight and am probably going to see if I can sort the power supply side out a I am sure that is what is getting in the way of the damn thing working.

Even if I only get a few more months work out o fit, I can be savin gup for something else - another focusrite Octopre maybe?

Incidentally, if "everyone" making this type of ADAT connected unit has to use the same chip, how come all the others are not failing?

Is this simply down to the usual "how low a spec can we get away with in PSU components" ploy?
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Well I have exactly NO volts out of the transformer, so I guess I need to start scouring the UK for a tranformer in the hope that is ALL that is wrong.

Didn't there used to be some sort of official Behringer UK service facility down on the South Coast somewhere?

I have emailed tech support but who knows if I will hear anything from them that will help?

*sigh* At least I got some service out of it while it lasted.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear Ivan,

I wanted to take a moment to respond and confirm our commitment to making sure that your ADA8200 is repaired. I have sent you a PM to confirm your contact details so we can resolve this issue for you.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Many years ago some guys in Bexhill on sea repaired my ddx3216. Great guys but no idea if they're still going. Depending on where you are, there's a guy I know in York, john at radtronix, who's worth a call.

Im sure you've checked but make sure there isn't a blown fuse. Mine had a shorted decoupling cap in the 48v line from the transformer, and the fuse went before the transformer blew.

the adat chip problem is unrelated to the issues with the ada8000 power supply. I expect the ada8200 to be a pretty decent unit and hopefully more reliable than the ada8000 as it won't have the heat build up problems. No idea if other manufacturers are using the wavefront al1401/1402 chips in preamps but I know other folks have found the problems with these chips, it isn't a cost issue or a behringer problem as nobody else makes an equivalent. Hopefully it's a bad batch and more will be fabricated.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

I have looked at other 8-channel mike preamps, and NONE of them user the Wavefront chips.. they all use their own PLDs... Which explains why they work properly, and the ADA8000 often fails with clocking problems. I believe Behringer needs to use a different chip for this part.

Bob
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Matt Seymour said:
Many years ago some guys in Bexhill on sea repaired my ddx3216. Great guys but no idea if they're still going. Depending on where you are, there's a guy I know in York, john at radtronix, who's worth a call.

Im sure you've checked but make sure there isn't a blown fuse. Mine had a shorted decoupling cap in the 48v line from the transformer, and the fuse went before the transformer blew.

the adat chip problem is unrelated to the issues with the ada8000 power supply. I expect the ada8200 to be a pretty decent unit and hopefully more reliable than the ada8000 as it won't have the heat build up problems. No idea if other manufacturers are using the wavefront al1401/1402 chips in preamps but I know other folks have found the problems with these chips, it isn't a cost issue or a behringer problem as nobody else makes an equivalent. Hopefully it's a bad batch and more will be fabricated.
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Yep - I am pretty sure that Bexhill-on-sea place is where I used to source parts way back when. In the meantime, Uli has kindly put me in touch with the official Behri UK support group, whose address/phone/etc I had not been able to find.
Yes of course I checked the fuse as you said & even checked that everything was seating properly in the combined receptacle and fuse holder.
As I said before, I m pretty sure warranty expired on this unit 6/12, so I opened her up. The only oddity I could find was that the star earth on the chassis was hanging off, so I removed the Behriglue(TM) from round the secondary connectors on the transformer & ran a meter on it. Not a peep.
I then did a continuity check on the primary and it would appear that I have an open circuit on the primary, so it looks like I need a transformer.
Hopefully Uli's elves will be able to come through for me after Xmas. Not expecting contact before & I have no projects needing a bunch of drum mics at the present, thankfully.

I would like to say sorry for hijacking this Q&A with a personal problem and above all a big thanks to Uli for taking the time and trouble to involve himself.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Just to catch you all up on my progress, I received an email from a young lady at Behringer service UK saying that they do not sell spares to end users (although nobody has asked me what I do for a living - electronics engineer that "repairs stuff"!) and also saying I had invalidated my warranty by opening the case to check for internal fuses, etc.
And that the cost of repairing the item including tax and labour would amount to something like 60% of what I paid for it - with the cost of any parts on top.

So I bought another Focusrite Octopre instead. Shame. I had been seriously considering the new ADA8200 as an alternative (I have a third unused ADAT port) but I am left wondering what support would be if it went wrong.

Such a shame after Uli`s kind intervention on my behalf, but I think his support staff in the UK could use some re-education on how to deal with customers.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

ivan carling said:
Just to catch you all up on my progress, I received an email from a young lady at Behringer service UK saying that they do not sell spares to end users (although nobody has asked me what I do for a living - electronics engineer that "repairs stuff"!) and also saying I had invalidated my warranty by opening the case to check for internal fuses, etc.
And that the cost of repairing the item including tax and labour would amount to something like 60% of what I paid for it - with the cost of any parts on top.

So I bought another Focusrite Octopre instead. Shame. I had been seriously considering the new ADA8200 as an alternative (I have a third unused ADAT port) but I am left wondering what support would be if it went wrong.

Such a shame after Uli`s kind intervention on my behalf, but I think his support staff in the UK could use some re-education on how to deal with customers.
Click to expand...

I would think that forwarding the email or post from Uli to her supervisor is in order. While her response might be the company policy in the UK, I submit that Uli's name over the door trumps mindless implementation of said policy.

And the Focusrite is a decent piece...
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear Ivan

I have just sent you a PM

I have overall responsibility for MUSIC Group customer service & support for EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa)

We are investigating the situation, and our team will get back to you as quickly as possible - please bear with us due to the Christmas period.

Thanks

Ian Riley

VP Operations

MUSIC Group Research UK Ltd
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

It will take two things to detox the Behringer brand for audio professionals. The factories must stop turning out faulty items that are caught by end users rather than quality control, as I experienced recently, and there needs to be a "nothing is too much trouble" support response. That will probably mean repairing/replacing items that ends up with that item costing the company money. But stories will soon spread and it gives confidence in the product and the support mechanism. Unfortunately Behringer kit remains something to be treated as disposable.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Matt Seymour said:
Unfortunately Behringer kit remains something to be treated as disposable.
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I'm not sure its because of how often things break but rather that they are cheap enough that they aren't worth the time it would take to get it repaired rather than buy new. The price makes it disposable not the quality of the product.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Jordan Lahr said:
I'm not sure its because of how often things break but rather that they are cheap enough that they aren't worth the time it would take to get it repaired rather than buy new. The price makes it disposable not the quality of the product.
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To some people, a $5 item is worth wasting half a day returning and complaining about. And a $5 item should last as long as a $50 version.

I'm not sure if it is just me, but every Behringer item I have bought I have known at the time of purchase if I expected it to last a few months of bedroom use, or be usable for a few years of regular use. And that has been part of my purchasing decision. If I think it will last, then I'm happy paying the cheaper price. If I didn't think it would last, then I work out if I can buy 2 (or more) for the price of the competing model, and if it makes sense to do so.

But I can't listen to people who buy a cheap version of something, then complain that it doesn't last 5-years of regular use and (mis)handling. And if one item is a problem, bag out the whole brand.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Just to put this in perspective, I own and still use several items by Behringer that I bought from new.
The only one that has sort of let me down has been this ADA8000, which has indeed been in a studio rack since I bought it to flesh out my ADAT IO.

I have one unit at least which was in my touring rack for many years (still there today, although I don't gig much any more) so although there are a lot of complaints about B gear supposedly not being very good, in terms of the price and level of facilities offered, I personally think they offer decent value for money.
I have had far worse luck with Mackie products over the years, for instance.
Also, since I am now a retiree on a very limited budget, buying a replacement at the equivalent of $225-odd is not exactly what I would regard as disposable.

My current beef is plain and simply with the way customers with problems are apparently treated in the UK.

I am waiting for all the snow and reindeer poop to settle pending an answer from Behringer S&S UK.

Paul Mirtschin has the right of it.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

ivan carling said:
My current beef is plain and simply with the way customers with problems are apparently treated in the UK.

I am waiting for all the snow and reindeer poop to settle pending an answer from Behringer S&S UK.
Click to expand...

It does sound like the UK distributor/s are a little lacking when it comes to support. Behringer themselves appear to be doing everything possible in assisting their customers, as are a lot of the other distributors, but the UK guys, not so good in the service area.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Paul Mirtschin said:
To some people, a $5 item is worth wasting half a day returning and complaining about. And a $5 item should last as long as a $50 version.
Click to expand...

But in fairness we're not talking about a $50 item, or an item that's 10 times cheaper than the closest alternative.

Paul Mirtschin said:
I'm not sure if it is just me, but every Behringer item I have bought I have known at the time of purchase if I expected it to last a few months of bedroom use, or be usable for a few years of regular use. And that has been part of my purchasing decision. If I think it will last, then I'm happy paying the cheaper price. If I didn't think it would last, then I work out if I can buy 2 (or more) for the price of the competing model, and if it makes sense to do so.

But I can't listen to people who buy a cheap version of something, then complain that it doesn't last 5-years of regular use and (mis)handling. And if one item is a problem, bag out the whole brand.
Click to expand...


Ok... Don't listen ;)


I take your point, and its essentially that one gets what one pays for. But a lot of this thread has been Uli talking about how much Behringer's manufacturing processes have improved, how low their return rates are, how great their support is going to be and why we should trust Behringer equipment.


So, for example, not once have I "moaned" about the five year old ada8000 that recently failed and I managed to repair because a five year service life is about my expectations of the product. I certainly will complain about about the three brand new units that were dead out of the box...


If the Behringer brand is to be smiled on by audio pros, then a 10 year service life needs to become a realistic expectation.


Uli Behringer has posted on this very thread about how the low prices are not to do with poor quality components or design, but possible through owning their own factory, sheer volume of production etc.


If that's true then this "moaning" is really calling him out on that, and the promises of better support, which is perfectly justified.


As I said, you don't have to read it.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Matt Seymour said:
But in fairness we're not talking about a $50 item, or an item that's 10 times cheaper than the closest alternative.




Ok... Don't listen ;)

If the Behringer brand is to be smiled on by audio pros, then a 10 year service life needs to become a realistic expectation.
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Please. Can we try to be realistic here. I have seen, touched and heard the X32. Very impressive piece of technology. 10 year life expectancy? I just pee-ed my pants laughing. This product (as every product) is built to a price and for a market. If it gets sold to it's intended user, a weekend bar band or a low budget church install, I'd guess 2 to 4 years. Any use more demanding than that, you should shorten the expected service life proportionately. I am guessing 90 to 180 days in my world. Just sayin'
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Steve Payne said:
Snip If it gets sold to it's intended user, a weekend bar band or a low budget church install, I'd guess 2 to 4 years. Any use more demanding than that, you should shorten the expected service life proportionately. I am guessing 90 to 180 days in my world. Just sayin'
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It is important to note that products don't reach end of life and then die quietly and politely at a nice time like worship team practice. They get flaky and then quit at very inconvenient times. This is true of quality equipment with a 20 year life expectancy and of gear with a 2 year life expectancy.

The important questions not "Is two years enough for the money I spent" but "How often can I put up with a failure during a church service or while the band is playing".

I cringe whenever I hear that someone is putting unreliable gear in a church. In a church service everything depends on the sound. No sound, no service.

Frank
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Frank DeWitt said:
I cringe whenever I hear that someone is putting unreliable gear in a church. In a church service everything depends on the sound. No sound, no service.

Frank
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The faithful were worshiping long before amplified sound and doing so on a large scale.

It the contemporary worship "experience" the bigger issue is "no video, no service." How could worshipers sing the mind-numbingly simple songs without powerpoint? We're not talking John Wesley's 6 verse hymns, we're talking about songs that repeat the same 14 words over and over. But I guess the Almighty can't hear the words without video...
 
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