4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Shane Presley

Shane Presley

Senior
Jan 12, 2011
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.bssproductions.com
I was hoping that someone here had a design, that they could share, or at a minimum - thoughts about if it's a good idea or not to do. I am concerned with two aspects 1) stress on the rigging hardware, riding in the truck, engaged all the time, possibly getting damaged when there are "bumps". 2) I do not fly my pa all the time, so how feasible is it to use in the rack as is... roll it in.
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

I guess I should clarify - I have the stacking dollies from eaw, that came with the array. What I would like to do is having an aluminum cage built, that holds 4 pre-hanging, that are easily picked out of the cage with a motor to quickly hang them (pick-up four, pull four more under). My question is - would I damage the rigging at all by transporting them "pre-pinned", or should I remove the loading, by collapsing the cabinets together). see attached photo ( this is what I consider the "collapsed, non flyware load version). The other way I was thinking is to pin them vertically to be straight, to reduce the cage size...and I was wondering if I coul damage the flyware if the truck were to have a tough ride...bumps etc... shocking the flyware if they were pinned...
 

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Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Shane Presley said:
I guess I should clarify - I have the stacking dollies from eaw, that came with the array. What I would like to do is having an aluminum cage built, that holds 4 pre-hanging, that are easily picked out of the cage with a motor to quickly hang them (pick-up four, pull four more under). My question is - would I damage the rigging at all by transporting them "pre-pinned", or should I remove the loading, by collapsing the cabinets together). see attached photo ( this is what I consider the "collapsed, non flyware load version). The other way I was thinking is to pin them vertically to be straight, to reduce the cage size...and I was wondering if I coul damage the flyware if the truck were to have a tough ride...bumps etc... shocking the flyware if they were pinned...
Click to expand...

Shane, We have been traveling with our 730's stacked 4-5 high for years now. No rigging ever damaged. Our 730's ride on a wheel board, however I like that pic you posted. Do you have a design for that?
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Shane,

I've never seen 730s transported in any way but all at 0 degrees on the caster bar... the whole point of that array is that it's small and light, seems like building a big cage to transport it in would somewhat defeat that purpose.
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Bennett Prescott said:
Shane,

I've never seen 730s transported in any way but all at 0 degrees on the caster bar... the whole point of that array is that it's small and light, seems like building a big cage to transport it in would somewhat defeat that purpose.
Click to expand...

The only problem without the cage is they are a bitch to truck pack. We have to put up load bars and blankets to protect them...I would also feel better about strapping around the cage rather than around the box like we do now...
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Bennett Prescott said:
Shane,

I've never seen 730s transported in any way but all at 0 degrees on the caster bar... the whole point of that array is that it's small and light, seems like building a big cage to transport it in would somewhat defeat that purpose.
Click to expand...

Yeah I hear you Bennett, but currently I'm stacking them two over two (on the EAW dollies) with a homemade plywood top, to hold the bumper on top of that, and ratchet strapping all that together as a bundle. So technically I'm pushing the same weight up the ramp anyway. Actually in the end, I'm sure an aluminum cage would weigh less than the 3 pieces of plywood that make up the dollies, and 4 less wheels... Also I'm hoping it'll decrease the physically bumping around these boxes take on their face ( even though it's onto painted plywood), if they are already vertically "in place"... just click on the bumper and raise em out of the "cage"... (see photo called goodstack)
 

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Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

I don't have anything as yet Scott, but I'll be designing, and building something like the two pics I posted, shortly... I intend to make it truck pack friendly (at least in one direction), so when I get final Dims, I'll post them, along with pictures... I don't have the ability to weld aluminum, so I'll be getting a local shop to make these for me. Like I say, I'll post some pics, and take some measurements after I get them built.
SP
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Shane Presley said:
I don't have anything as yet Scott, but I'll be designing, and building something like the two pics I posted, shortly... I intend to make it truck pack friendly (at least in one direction), so when I get final Dims, I'll post them, along with pictures... I don't have the ability to weld aluminum, so I'll be getting a local shop to make these for me. Like I say, I'll post some pics, and take some measurements after I get them built.
SP
Click to expand...

Shane, are you going to connect the bumper bar to the frame? if so, at which points?
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Shane Presley said:
I was hoping that someone here had a design, that they could share, or at a minimum - thoughts about if it's a good idea or not to do. I am concerned with two aspects 1) stress on the rigging hardware, riding in the truck, engaged all the time, possibly getting damaged when there are "bumps". 2) I do not fly my pa all the time, so how feasible is it to use in the rack as is... roll it in.
Click to expand...

This is what I used ... a DIY version of EAW's dollies.
 

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Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Phil Graham said:
Shane, are you going to connect the bumper bar to the frame? if so, at which points?
Click to expand...

Hi Phil, no, I'll probably use welded metal "stops" around the outside of the bumper to keep itin place, and not - pin or lock it in... The same way I do now with the wooden dolly top, it's bascially a raised outline of the bumper. It might have to be something I can swing out of the way, on some sort of large bar, and wingnut arrangement, to lock it in place once it's landed... R&D to follow :)

@ Brandon - moving the next four boxes into place shouldn't be difficult, since the top of rack two will be wide open. it'll be no more difficult than lining the boxes up now.

Basically now I'm flying the boxes in pairs... they come off the dolly, and sit upright as they will flying, on a roadcase ( 24" trunk).
I lower the bumper onto the stack of two, and pin the the first one into place, bump the motor, and pin the second box.
Raise the whole thing up where I can stack two more boxes, and repeat... so I can't see lowering the four flying boxes over top of a static rack of four more, would be any more difficult...and I'm only doing 4 pins... The only tough two would be the front two, the back probably has some sort of splay on it, which will make it easier to align.
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Bennett Prescott said:
Shane,

I've never seen 730s transported in any way but all at 0 degrees on the caster bar... the whole point of that array is that it's small and light, seems like building a big cage to transport it in would somewhat defeat that purpose.
Click to expand...

I work with a local AV provider that has Meyer M2D that travel in a cart/cage similar to the what Shane is considering. Based on my experience with the Meyer rig, I will say DON'T DO IT. Nothing to do with the transport abuse and everything to do with damaging QRPs when flying the speakers in/out of the cart. Also, perhaps the 730s are different, but it's a major PIA to line up and connect the next set of boxes on the 2nd cart, and it's even worse if we have to split the stack in a cart. Very little rooms/access to the hardware.

It's probably the design of the carts, but I'd much rather have a stout caster board & straps or just keep them all singles and build the 'train' like VerTec or d&B.
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Tim , interesting for sure, thanks for the insight - it will be something I consider during the desgin process, not to make the cart too tight to the box, to allow manipulation of the rigging etc.. should I need to split a stack. FWIW, I install my QRPs on the inside rigging track on the boxes to avoid cable snags, and the type of damage you are talking about...only the pins that secure the boxes to the bumper have to be on the outside points, and they will be above the cart on my design...
But thanks for making me think about issues, I didn't think about !- I'll have to test lining 4 boxes up under 4 flying to be sure this is the route I want to take, and possible have my builder make only one rack to start...

SP
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Shane Presley said:
I install my QRPs on the inside rigging track on the boxes to avoid cable snags, and the type of damage you are talking about...only the pins that secure the boxes to the bumper have to be on the outside points, and they will be above the cart on my design...
Click to expand...

This is actually how EAW specifies it ought to be done.
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Bennett Prescott said:
This is actually how EAW specifies it ought to be done.
Click to expand...

The AV shop spent BIG money on their carts, spring loaded suspension, ratchet straps to stay the hang... and they suck because there is only about 18mm of clearance between the head of the QRPs and the uprights of the cart. It's almost impossible to pin or unpin.

I didn't want to see you make the same mistake and then have to "just live with it" because you built $1000 carts.

Good luck and let us know how it works out, Shane.
 
Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

Sorry about the late post - been very busy...

I designed these cases with Olympic's help about 4.5 years ago. About $1,000 each. The cabinets are entirely surrounded by foam, very dense stuff in the bottom, typical density everywhere else. Foam is in great condition and appears to have another 5+ years left in it. I've never needed to paint my (24) KF730's and they're used weekly. Cases are much more stable than they look, but have gone over a few times on cement without issue. Outdoor gigs with rain while the cabs are in the cases allow you to cover other things and attend to the loudspeakers last. The locking casters allow expensive stage stacks of (3) cabs if you're in a hurry, but I generally use SB730 speaker stands for that purpose. :)

KF730 Case 3.jpeg
KF730 Case 1.jpeg
KF730 Case 2.jpeg
KF730 Ground Stack.jpg
 
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Re: 4 x EAW KF730 rolling carts

The only thing Langston's design needs is a motor point of the top of the road case, so you don't need two guys to lift the lid off. Just clip the motor on, lift of the top, and relocate motor to bumper. Aside from that, I think he's the winner!
 
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