60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - AKA PM60

Peter Morris

Senior
May 8, 2011
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Australia
Standard wiring for an NL8 is ...

4 way system

-1,+1 - low or sub
-2,+2 - low mid
-3,+3 - high mid
-4,+4 - high

For 3 way systems

-1,+1 - sub
-2,+2 - sub ... this line can also be used to do subs in a cardioid mode. (delayed and inverted re: -1,+1)
-3,+3 - mid
-4,+4 - high

I don't think there is any problem increasing the width but you may have to adjust / modify where the 12" enters the start of horn to smooth any discontinuity ...maybe adjust the area of the exit mouth so its area matches the area at the start of the horn.

Also note this box MUST be run with EQ on both the LF and HF sections.
 

Trev Mcd

New member
Feb 1, 2020
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Thanks for the reply Peter, as it relates to the NL8 wiring just to see if I understand. I would connect both the B&C 12NDL76 would be connected to -3,+3 (in parallel am assuming) and the BMS 4594nd would be connected to -4,+4 .but if that's the case would I NL4 be enough for this project?.

And for the box adjustment could you please elaborate what you mean when yuh said
"maybe adjust the area of the exit mouth so its area matches the area at the start of the horn"
Because I thought by increasing the width of the whole box and its corresponding components the area of the exit mouth would also increase

Sorry for all the questions I'm a bit new to this so I'm trying to learn a much as I can 😅
 

Peter Morris

Senior
May 8, 2011
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Australia
If you are using the BMS with a passive crossover then an NL4 will work fine. If you are using the BMS 2- way you will need an NL8 ... BMS VHF pins 4,4, BMS HF pins 3,3, mid 12NDL76 pins 2,2, Sub pins 1,1.
 

Stef Smits

Freshman
Apr 4, 2017
52
11
8
Anyone use any DSP like the Xilica XP series? They have a sufficient amount of EQ's per channel (and All-Pass 1/2).
 

Frank Jansen

New member
Sep 6, 2018
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Anyone use any DSP like the Xilica XP series? They have a sufficient amount of EQ's per channel (and All-Pass 1/2).
Stef,
I would like to know the same. Just bought a xilica XD for the PM60'S. Currently using a simple dbx drive rack pa. I have no experience with these xilica processors. I'm searching for someone in the Netherlands who can make custom settings for xillica xd / PM60
 

Peter van Gils

Freshman
Mar 3, 2013
121
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Netherlands
www.plugingeluid.nl
Stef,
I would like to know the same. Just bought a xilica XD for the PM60'S. Currently using a simple dbx drive rack pa. I have no experience with these xilica processors. I'm searching for someone in the Netherlands who can make custom settings for xillica xd / PM60
Should work fine. I’m using the Powersoft DSP lite (no FIR, just IIR with all-pass) combined with digimod amps.
I can do SMAART measurements and create settings, but currently very busy. In a couple of months I should have more time...
 

Frank Jansen

New member
Sep 6, 2018
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Should work fine. I’m using the Powersoft DSP lite (no FIR, just IIR with all-pass) combined with digimod amps.
I can do SMAART measurements and create settings, but currently very busy. In a couple of months I should have more time...
Peter,
It would be verry nice if you could help me out. First i must finish my build. That wil also take one or two months. The xilica can do fir but that is not necessary. I'm using the dcx464. I havent seen anything to start with in this forum. So that won't be easy. I'l keep you informed.
 

Albe Kohler

New member
Nov 4, 2019
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Dear Peter (Morris),
re: yoke mount. I really like it and would like to make that happen as well. I'm aware you welded the frame, but the actual attachments as seen in the picture you posted, lower left corner. Did you also make these? If not, do you have any hint for me where I could buy such a thing/what it is called?
Thanks!
 

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Caleb Dueck

Junior
Jan 11, 2011
504
5
18
Montana
I'm using the dcx464. I havent seen anything to start with in this forum.
I just stumbled across this driver as well (B&C DCX464, 1.4" coax HF/VHF), which led to re-reading a lot of this thread. Are there any significant differences vs the BMS driver? This assumes FIR Designer or similar to account for slight acoustic differences.
 

Peter Morris

Senior
May 8, 2011
1,009
98
48
Australia
Hi Caleb,

I would suggest the 464 is better than the standard 4594. Comparing it to the 4594HE is not so clear cut.

One of the main differences is the HF to VHF crossover region; the BMS is crossed at around 6K3 with virtually no overlap in the driver’s raw response. The 464 crosses at around 3K2 and there is overlap. This also means that the power balance is different.

Some people have measured the distortion to be lower on the 4594HE, in practice I’m not sure how this plays out given how the power is distributed between the HF and VHF differently and the relative importance of 2nd V’s 3rd harmonics.

I have been told that the wavefront shape at the mouth of the driver is better controlled and more even with 464.

The BMS goes a bit higher which is probably better for studio monitor applications but not so important for live sound applications. First impressions is the 464 has better LF performance …. Sooo for me, love both the 464 and 4594HE.
 
Last edited:

Frank Jansen

New member
Sep 6, 2018
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I just stumbled across this driver as well (B&C DCX464, 1.4" coax HF/VHF), which led to re-reading a lot of this thread. Are there any significant differences vs the BMS driver? This assumes FIR Designer or similar to account for slight acoustic differences.
Caleb,
caleb I think Peter is the best man to answer your question. when i said i used the dcx464 i meant i ordered it. However, due to the covid , I still have not received my ordered drivers from the French webshop.
I hope everything will be fine, but nothing is certain at this time. we hope for the best.
 

Chris Burns

Freshman
Nov 13, 2016
24
3
3
Connecticut
Hey gang. Hope everyone is well during these crazy times. I’m joining the DIY game after some years of inactivity and was wondering if anyone is now CNCing the PM boxes and offering them assembled ready for duratex and loading?
 
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Mike Gervais

New member
Feb 12, 2020
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Expanding on @Chris Burns 's post.... Has anyone laid down a CAD file for CNC operators? 5x5 or 4x8? I'm interested in creating this or PREFERABLY .... standing on your shoulders ;) LMK!!!
 

Chris Burns

Freshman
Nov 13, 2016
24
3
3
Connecticut
Mike scroll up and there are a pdf and a DWB (I think) file from Max Warsilla. Those can be used to generate the cnc files. I believe they are current. It’s for the 90. It according to the notes, the horn can be swapped to the XT and used as the 60.


Sent from my iPhone
 
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Mike Gervais

New member
Feb 12, 2020
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Mike scroll up and there are a pdf and a DWB (I think) file from Max Warsilla. Those can be used to generate the cnc files. I believe they are current. It’s for the 90. It according to the notes, the horn can be swapped to the XT and used as the 60.


Sent from my iPhone
I know I'm just being lazy ;)