Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Not that I have any accusations, but how? smiley face
Not that I have any accusations, but how? smiley face
Apple Loses My Respect
- Thread starter Langston Holland
- Start date
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
I have several cards in my wallet, all of which required submitting my fingerprints to the state and to the FBI, as well as going through a criminal background check. One of them I have to renew every year. One of them doesn't get issued if you have so much as a DUI. My home state has a good history of showing up to rescind theirs when residents do things they don't like.
I have several cards in my wallet, all of which required submitting my fingerprints to the state and to the FBI, as well as going through a criminal background check. One of them I have to renew every year. One of them doesn't get issued if you have so much as a DUI. My home state has a good history of showing up to rescind theirs when residents do things they don't like.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
I noticed that my phone says I was a couple of places I have never gone close to. I suspect their tracking ability is not always accurate.
I noticed that my phone says I was a couple of places I have never gone close to. I suspect their tracking ability is not always accurate.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
I've never been terribly worried about anyone knowing my location. After all, most anyone who pays attention should have a pretty good idea where they can find me 8 times a week. It is interesting to me that this information is stored locally without any specific knowledge by the user.
Mine goes back to June of last year.
I've never been terribly worried about anyone knowing my location. After all, most anyone who pays attention should have a pretty good idea where they can find me 8 times a week. It is interesting to me that this information is stored locally without any specific knowledge by the user.
Mine goes back to June of last year.
Attachments
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Ah - I missed the Mac only part - sugar high from too much ice cream.
Ah - I missed the Mac only part - sugar high from too much ice cream.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Langston.
First of all: If I had issues with my phone storing where I had travelled I probably wouldn't have posted the map online...
But on to the issue: The general issue of monitoring and surveilance of the average citizen is a hot topic in Europe at the moment, also. There was just passed a law which extended the time period that the mobile phone networks and ISPs can store the records of your traffic. But this is just peanuts, already, compared to traffic cameras, electronic toll booth tokens, electronic payment and discount cards to whatever, etc, etc, etc. It all happens one small increment at the time, each one not seeming so serious or dangerous.
The real issue for me, as JR alluded to, is not the fact that my ISP "knows" who I've emailed (even if that irritates me) and so on, but what can be done with all this information at some point down the road when society changes: We can all imagine what had happened to the partisan movement all over Europe if the Nazis had access to this kind of technology. And if this technology was available in 1935, 5 years before the war, I'm sure it would have been implemented back then, too ("it's all safe - war isn't looming" etc, etc).
I wonder how long before the insurance companies lawfully get their hands on our DNA-profiles. It's off limits now, but sadly, all it might take is another "gamechanging" event like 9-11, and public opinion will be swayed toward "temporarily releasing it to catch the terrorists" - and that will take generations and generations to rectify, and even then it won't completely wipe the slate.
We all need to be aware of these things, thanks for bringing this up.
FWIW, the anti surveilance-crowd here repeatedly point at the US and "Homeland Security" after 9-11 to illustrate what they don't wish to happen here.
Langston.
First of all: If I had issues with my phone storing where I had travelled I probably wouldn't have posted the map online...
But on to the issue: The general issue of monitoring and surveilance of the average citizen is a hot topic in Europe at the moment, also. There was just passed a law which extended the time period that the mobile phone networks and ISPs can store the records of your traffic. But this is just peanuts, already, compared to traffic cameras, electronic toll booth tokens, electronic payment and discount cards to whatever, etc, etc, etc. It all happens one small increment at the time, each one not seeming so serious or dangerous.
The real issue for me, as JR alluded to, is not the fact that my ISP "knows" who I've emailed (even if that irritates me) and so on, but what can be done with all this information at some point down the road when society changes: We can all imagine what had happened to the partisan movement all over Europe if the Nazis had access to this kind of technology. And if this technology was available in 1935, 5 years before the war, I'm sure it would have been implemented back then, too ("it's all safe - war isn't looming" etc, etc).
I wonder how long before the insurance companies lawfully get their hands on our DNA-profiles. It's off limits now, but sadly, all it might take is another "gamechanging" event like 9-11, and public opinion will be swayed toward "temporarily releasing it to catch the terrorists" - and that will take generations and generations to rectify, and even then it won't completely wipe the slate.
We all need to be aware of these things, thanks for bringing this up.
FWIW, the anti surveilance-crowd here repeatedly point at the US and "Homeland Security" after 9-11 to illustrate what they don't wish to happen here.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Not exactly the same but I saw this while reading the news this morning:
http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/...et-gives-cops-quick-access-to-cell-phone-data
Here is more on the pertaining story:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/20/apple-iphone-users-beware-location-tracking/
Thought maybe I'd just throw it out there.
Pat
Not exactly the same but I saw this while reading the news this morning:
http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/...et-gives-cops-quick-access-to-cell-phone-data
Here is more on the pertaining story:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/20/apple-iphone-users-beware-location-tracking/
Thought maybe I'd just throw it out there.
Pat
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Re: Apple Loses My Respect
One of their plans is to e-mail you coupons to the store you are walking by.
Don't know if you consider this underhanded, but this technology will be used for Apple's profit
One of their plans is to e-mail you coupons to the store you are walking by.
Don't know if you consider this underhanded, but this technology will be used for Apple's profit
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
No... I don't consider that to be underhanded. I will probably consider it to be annoying, just like I did when websites started customizing advertisements based on my web history... but that was very easy to turn off, no big deal. I would have to assume that any service like this will have to be implemented with a way to opt out.
I do enjoy many of the products that Apple makes, and I do believe that as a company they are doing some really interesting stuff, but after all they are a business and as such they exist to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with a company making a profit, and as such they will try new methods and technologies to do so.
Expecting a company to be innovative, without ever stepping on your comfort zone, is just close minded in my opinion. Will we like everything they decide to do? ... probably not, but the paradigm shifts they continue to create with their new ideas is worth a bit of occasional discomfort every so often. If they cross the line by too much, we all have the choice not to purchase and not to participate in their programs.
*I think that a far bigger security issue currently, is the hundreds of thousands of young high-school and college age kids, who go around constantly using the "check-in" feature of apps such as Facebook. This is something that on a college campus is just plain dangerous. . . telegraphing your movements and social habits to literally anyone that wants to see them. It's only a matter of time before someone takes advantage of this information for real.
No... I don't consider that to be underhanded. I will probably consider it to be annoying, just like I did when websites started customizing advertisements based on my web history... but that was very easy to turn off, no big deal. I would have to assume that any service like this will have to be implemented with a way to opt out.
I do enjoy many of the products that Apple makes, and I do believe that as a company they are doing some really interesting stuff, but after all they are a business and as such they exist to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with a company making a profit, and as such they will try new methods and technologies to do so.
Expecting a company to be innovative, without ever stepping on your comfort zone, is just close minded in my opinion. Will we like everything they decide to do? ... probably not, but the paradigm shifts they continue to create with their new ideas is worth a bit of occasional discomfort every so often. If they cross the line by too much, we all have the choice not to purchase and not to participate in their programs.
*I think that a far bigger security issue currently, is the hundreds of thousands of young high-school and college age kids, who go around constantly using the "check-in" feature of apps such as Facebook. This is something that on a college campus is just plain dangerous. . . telegraphing your movements and social habits to literally anyone that wants to see them. It's only a matter of time before someone takes advantage of this information for real.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
So if you want location based coupons, etc... that's fine... but why does the phone keep a year's worth of history, who has access to it and how do they use it?
This has significant privacy concerns.
So if you want location based coupons, etc... that's fine... but why does the phone keep a year's worth of history, who has access to it and how do they use it?
This has significant privacy concerns.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Other Apple apps like iPhoto on the Mac use the data to stamp pictures with date, time, and location information. There are probably other apps that use the data as well. The bottom line is that the user is in possession of the data, not Apple or anyone else AFAIK. I think the only issue that really needs to be addressed is that the data should be encrypted so if the phone or computer with the database file gets into malicious hands, it can't be used. But in reality, this uproar seems a bit overblown to me. It's really no worse than someone who carries around a day planer that logs all their comings and goings, and then looses it during their travels. The only difference is the data is recorded automatically and stored in a file rather than written on paper. And once again, it's living on the device(s) in the user's possession. That's my take anyway.
Greg
Other Apple apps like iPhoto on the Mac use the data to stamp pictures with date, time, and location information. There are probably other apps that use the data as well. The bottom line is that the user is in possession of the data, not Apple or anyone else AFAIK. I think the only issue that really needs to be addressed is that the data should be encrypted so if the phone or computer with the database file gets into malicious hands, it can't be used. But in reality, this uproar seems a bit overblown to me. It's really no worse than someone who carries around a day planer that logs all their comings and goings, and then looses it during their travels. The only difference is the data is recorded automatically and stored in a file rather than written on paper. And once again, it's living on the device(s) in the user's possession. That's my take anyway.
Greg
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
No matter how innocent this may appear to some, this strikes me as the kind of thing people should be allowed to decide for themselves. "It's my data and I want it kept secret". it's hard for me to keep it secret, if I didn't even know it was being collected.
Note: I don't own an I-anything and don't even carry a cellphone these days (because I don't need one). I do drive a mac mini around the internet and the amount of software apple is constantly pushing onto it, it probably knows when I take a crap. Today's push, was about 150M of security and whatever updates.
JR
PS: Why is it I get more spam phone calls since signing up to the do not call list (again)?
No matter how innocent this may appear to some, this strikes me as the kind of thing people should be allowed to decide for themselves. "It's my data and I want it kept secret". it's hard for me to keep it secret, if I didn't even know it was being collected.
Note: I don't own an I-anything and don't even carry a cellphone these days (because I don't need one). I do drive a mac mini around the internet and the amount of software apple is constantly pushing onto it, it probably knows when I take a crap. Today's push, was about 150M of security and whatever updates.
JR
PS: Why is it I get more spam phone calls since signing up to the do not call list (again)?
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
I'm not saying they're innocent, but it's not as bad as some have made it out to be. I agree that people should have a choice and IIRC, when you turn on the "Location Services" feature on your iDevice for the first time, there is a warning that pops up that you authorize something or other to take place. Of course, people usually don't read the fine print. Apparently I didn't. But it is something you have to enable after you get the device activated. Taking a look at my iPhone, there is actually a list of apps on the phone that use the Location Services, quite a few on my device: Around Me, Camera, Compass, Dictation, Facebook, Google, Google Earth, Maps, Mark the Spot, and Safari. So there is a reason it's there. Now whether or not there needs to be a db file to keep a history is debatable. Apple should probably have a) more prominent notice about the function and what it does, and b) encrypted the data so only the user can get to it in the event a device is stolen/lost, etc.
I think Google is far more egregious when it comes to tracking and privacy issues. Again nobody reads the fine print. But any activity you do through any Google app is tracked and kept in perpetuity. Have a Google search bar in your Windows browser? Google not only tracks searches you do, but *any* page you navigate to in your browser even if you didn't use their search. Gmail? Google Chat? You agree when you sign up that they can keep and use for any purposes, any email or chat you participate in and in perpetuity. Yet I don't see anyone mentioning that. And you have zero control over that data as it lives with them and not you. Same goes with any of their applications like the word processor, remote storage, etc. Really, they are the 'big brother' of the internet and just about everybody complies willingly and unknowingly. They've already got various law enforcement agency beating down their door to get at that info, especially after 911.
Greg
P.S. 150MB of patches? Must have been a while since it was fired up since the fix ;-)
I'm not saying they're innocent, but it's not as bad as some have made it out to be. I agree that people should have a choice and IIRC, when you turn on the "Location Services" feature on your iDevice for the first time, there is a warning that pops up that you authorize something or other to take place. Of course, people usually don't read the fine print. Apparently I didn't. But it is something you have to enable after you get the device activated. Taking a look at my iPhone, there is actually a list of apps on the phone that use the Location Services, quite a few on my device: Around Me, Camera, Compass, Dictation, Facebook, Google, Google Earth, Maps, Mark the Spot, and Safari. So there is a reason it's there. Now whether or not there needs to be a db file to keep a history is debatable. Apple should probably have a) more prominent notice about the function and what it does, and b) encrypted the data so only the user can get to it in the event a device is stolen/lost, etc.
I think Google is far more egregious when it comes to tracking and privacy issues. Again nobody reads the fine print. But any activity you do through any Google app is tracked and kept in perpetuity. Have a Google search bar in your Windows browser? Google not only tracks searches you do, but *any* page you navigate to in your browser even if you didn't use their search. Gmail? Google Chat? You agree when you sign up that they can keep and use for any purposes, any email or chat you participate in and in perpetuity. Yet I don't see anyone mentioning that. And you have zero control over that data as it lives with them and not you. Same goes with any of their applications like the word processor, remote storage, etc. Really, they are the 'big brother' of the internet and just about everybody complies willingly and unknowingly. They've already got various law enforcement agency beating down their door to get at that info, especially after 911.
Greg
P.S. 150MB of patches? Must have been a while since it was fired up since the fix ;-)
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
As someone said elsewhere the slimy part is the persistence of this data... being utilized in real time, is just enhanced situational awareness. Being saved for a year and analyzed is a different thing entirely.
=========
no this is the old new one, not the fixed old one....
Every few weeks it pops up and says Hello got new poop... Used to make me request updates, now it pushes them down
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate security updates, I just uncheck all the Itunes crapo
JR
As someone said elsewhere the slimy part is the persistence of this data... being utilized in real time, is just enhanced situational awareness. Being saved for a year and analyzed is a different thing entirely.
=========
no this is the old new one, not the fixed old one....
Every few weeks it pops up and says Hello got new poop... Used to make me request updates, now it pushes them down
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate security updates, I just uncheck all the Itunes crapo
JR
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Hello,
I find these intrusions into our privacy a breach of our rights. It's not only cell phones and automotive "black boxes, but, our computers and Credit Card/Check purchases as well. If you've done any recent computer searches, or store purchases from any of the multitudes of National chain-type stores, you'll notice that you'll be bombarded with advertisements, related to those searches or purchases.
I'm going to try to purchase items with cash, when at all possible. I'm tired of junk mail, and Corporations "trending" my purchases.
Hammer
Hello,
I find these intrusions into our privacy a breach of our rights. It's not only cell phones and automotive "black boxes, but, our computers and Credit Card/Check purchases as well. If you've done any recent computer searches, or store purchases from any of the multitudes of National chain-type stores, you'll notice that you'll be bombarded with advertisements, related to those searches or purchases.
I'm going to try to purchase items with cash, when at all possible. I'm tired of junk mail, and Corporations "trending" my purchases.
Hammer
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Good thing you're not living in Norway. It's illegal for me to buy any item or service in cash for more than $1800, and try to deduct it as a business expense. If it's more than $1800, I have to use money transfer or a credit card, or I can't deduct it.
Good thing you're not living in Norway. It's illegal for me to buy any item or service in cash for more than $1800, and try to deduct it as a business expense. If it's more than $1800, I have to use money transfer or a credit card, or I can't deduct it.
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Hello All,
First off, I like how many people published their (secret) data here, on a public site.
And I am not sure how this is any more of an infringement than we have already had.
Cell phones are treated much different in regards to privacy than land lines.
And all my calls are registered to areas, if not specific towers, already.
Cell phone movement from tower to tower is being targeted as a means of following traffic patterns.
Cameras are moving towards this as a service. So a picture will be geo tagged automatically as a service.
Fellow aerial photographers use this ap to track the path of their cameras flight.
Some use an iPhone separately just for this purpose.
Regards, Jack
Hello All,
First off, I like how many people published their (secret) data here, on a public site.
And I am not sure how this is any more of an infringement than we have already had.
Cell phones are treated much different in regards to privacy than land lines.
And all my calls are registered to areas, if not specific towers, already.
Cell phone movement from tower to tower is being targeted as a means of following traffic patterns.
Cameras are moving towards this as a service. So a picture will be geo tagged automatically as a service.
Fellow aerial photographers use this ap to track the path of their cameras flight.
Some use an iPhone separately just for this purpose.
Regards, Jack
Re: Apple Loses My Respect
Hello Jack,
The difference is that those that participate on this site, CONTROL the quantity and quality of the data we've written; and most importantly, voluntarily and with our knowledge, unlike the secretive collection of data from OUR service providers.
As others have posted.... while these personal data collection schemes may seem harmless at first glance, there are many (at this instant) trying to extrapolate ideas as to how they can profit from OUR personal data and possibly find ways to harm us.
Hammer
these Stazi/KGB like tactics of individual data collection have been exploited in the past to whole population's detriment. The individual in the U.S. has been guaranteed the right of privacy ...and I'd argue that just as an individual has the right to make any personal information public, an individual also has the right to privacy and the right to know of his personal information being made public.
Hello Jack,
The difference is that those that participate on this site, CONTROL the quantity and quality of the data we've written; and most importantly, voluntarily and with our knowledge, unlike the secretive collection of data from OUR service providers.
As others have posted.... while these personal data collection schemes may seem harmless at first glance, there are many (at this instant) trying to extrapolate ideas as to how they can profit from OUR personal data and possibly find ways to harm us.
Hammer
these Stazi/KGB like tactics of individual data collection have been exploited in the past to whole population's detriment. The individual in the U.S. has been guaranteed the right of privacy ...and I'd argue that just as an individual has the right to make any personal information public, an individual also has the right to privacy and the right to know of his personal information being made public.