Apple Loses My Respect

Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Tim McCulloch said:
Normally I'd ignore anything for Faux news (MSNBC, too), but yes, Virginia, the Android-based phones can do this, too.

I think I'll keep my Nokia e63 for a couple more years...
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Do you believe that your phone carrier does not track and store the location for your Nokia Cell phone? If so, you are mistaken... in fact, it is this type of data collection that has been used by the government in the past to prosecute individuals under investigation.... the precedent was set using this type of data collection, not with any data provided by Apple or any smart phones.

Langston... by all means, sell your iPhone (if it's a iPhone 4... I'm in the market to upgrade from my 3...seriously... shoot me a PM) but what are you going to do to replace it? Prepaid cell phones purchased with cash from 7-11 ? Go back to carrying quarters and using a call box (if you can find one these days)? I just don't see a practical way around the fact that any cellular device you carry does the exact same thing.

Now of course, your normal cell phone doesn't store a log of info on your computer... but I keep my computer and ALL of my data as secure as I can, and if someone was to gain access to all of my data, my locations would hardly be the thing they are most interested in.

If you want to hang onto the illusion of privacy in the modern world for a few years longer, by all means, fight the good fight... but I think you will find in practice, that it is majorly impractical to accomplish. Anonymity is a concept that is quickly fading from our society.

I'm going back to watching The Cosby Show on my Apple TV now... just incase anyone is interest in my activities. If you have any use for my location, and I will gladly PM my coordinates to anyone who asks... that is a standing offer.
 
Re: Metastasis

Tim McCulloch said:
I don't think Langston is being overly concerned. You have a device in your pocket that tracks your whereabouts without your consent or knowledge and sends the data back to... presumably Apple, who, by their EULA, is free to do whatever they wish with it. Where does one draw the line? "It's okay to track my moves, monitor my web usage and email content all so I can be solicited by a peddler? All without my explicit knowledge as to what & when it happens, let alone why?" Not just no, but FUCK NO.

I don't care if the younger set seems to think this is all fine & dandy... or oldsters, either. It's an intrinsic violation of the user's privacy.
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1: I'm older than most on here.

2: The data isn't being sent to Apple.

3: The cell phone service providers have been collecting this data for years.

4: There is no privacy invasion, as this data is no more publicly available than any other data on your computer.
 
Re: Metastasis

Langston Holland said:
Hi Milt:

Alex Levinson is the strongest voice in the favor of Apple in this apparent breach of privacy. He wrote a strongly worded article yesterday that starts off by saying that Apple is NOT collecting this data. Note that his livelihood depends on the ability to reveal the personal behavior of iOS device users in the greatest possible detail.

Anyway, I wrote an email to him a bit ago. Hope to have a reply soon:
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Ah yes, it's not the message that's the problem, it's the messenger.
 
Re: Metastasis

Amazingly, Alex did reply to my email and included a link to a second article he just wrote in a far more humble tone. Alex got caught with his pants down and found out that the WSJ sources were right - Apple attempts to upload every iPhone user's movements every 12 hours if the default behavior of the device is allowed.

To quote:

"Apple previously used Skyhook Wireless for their determining the location of iPhones, but announced in 2010 they would be moving to their own location services starting in April of 2010 with iOS 3.2. This would confirm why there is data transmitted to Apple every 12 hours as reported by F-Secure yesterday. This explains my failure to see this unsolicited location data. My network traffic analysis of iOS devices has never spanned large time intervals."

He then falls back to faith-in-Apple posture:

"This still doesn’t translate into Apple tracking users behind their back."

"I think overall, this location data is being used to further the iOS experience."

"Through several avenues, Apple is attempting to protect your data on these devices."

etc.

One thing of interest I learned from the article is that enabling backup file encryption also encrypts the data on the device itself. If true, this is very nice as it'll probably thwart any attempt to retrieve data via thief or "law enforcement".

Easily the most useful summary of this whole mess is here. It's a relief to find out that the mere existence of the location tracking file in the iPhone (Library/Caches/locationd/consolidated.db) does not mean Apple is actually getting the data.

Assuming Apple didn't lie to Congress in its 12 July 2010 privacy policy explanation, the following will keep your iPhone's location hidden from everyone except your cell carrier. The phone retains all the functionality that is important to me, but YMMV.

01. Set iTunes to encrypt iOS device backups.
02. If you didn't opt out of the anonymous diagnostic bug in iTunes, reinstall it and choose Disagree.
03. Using your iOS device, opt out of iAd via http://oo.apple.com.
04. Change "My Number" to something fictional.
05. Enable Lock Passcode with Erase Data after 10 failed attempts.
06. Flush Safari's history, cookies and cache routinely.
07. An iOS device is a computer. Don't be stupid with email or surfing.
08. Disable Location Services.
09. Disable Wi-Fi.
10. Vote for pro-privacy congressional candidates.
 
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Re: Apple Loses My Respect

I didn't read this whole thread, but I did read an article about this issue. If you don't want this info stored, all you have to do is turn off location services.

Of course the information is just the cell towers that you have been connected to, and your cell carrier still stores all of that data.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

You should read it, particularly the link Langston provides to the Wall Street Journal article and the back-tracking from Apple's fanboy/apologist Alex Levinson.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

kristianjohnsen said:
The said law was passed make it more difficult to circulate laundered funds. I have no idea of whether it has worked or not.
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The typical hypocritical thinking that is supposed to "protect the common man".....Bull Shite. The value of laundered funds outside of Large Corporations is miniscule as compared to the Hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars that have been laundered by the World's top Banks and Corporations. (matter of International record)

International Political Payoffs, Drug Money laundering, and Illegal Arms shipments.....

Hammer
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Not to feed the veer.. but it seem the apparent thrust behind electronic transactions is all about tax compliance. In Greece which relies up a VAT for funding government, the use of cash and barter is so widespread that the Greek government has had to raise the VAT rate several times, which just encourages more people to cheat. Electronic transactions, that the government has visibility into, become harder to game by tax cheats.

I am actually in favor of high tax compliance, since tax cheats cheat us all.. but the government needs to tax and spend wisely or it will discourage compliance more broadly.

return to your regularly scheduled personal security rant....

JR
 
Re: Metastasis

Milt Hathaway said:
2: The data isn't being sent to Apple.
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There seems to be supporting evidence that it is, but I think the issue is more whether you would know if it was being sent or could prevent it. It still amazes me how many people don't realize the profits that Apple and Google make off the information they gather through their products and services.

Milt Hathaway said:
4: There is no privacy invasion, as this data is no more publicly available than any other data on your computer.
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Uh huh, and GE Capital insured me that my credit information was private and secure until I received a letter saying that the tape with that data had been 'misplaced' and they weren't sure what happened to it. While both your computer and their databases can potentially be hacked, you can dirctly determine and control what is on your computer while you have no input into what data Apple or Google gather or what they do with any data gathered.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

But wait, there's more!

I recently did a clean install of Snow Leopard on my machine. I use Little Snitch as a firewall, so every time something new tries to connect to the outside world, a message pops up. Here's one called "locationd":

Screen shot 2011-04-25 at 1.18.19 AM.png

I haven't looked into it much, but the small amount of Googling I did told me that Macs with Snow Leopard report their locations as well, to retrieve information like time zones from Apple. I don't know what happens with all of that, but I'd assume it's being stored somewhere as well.

There is an option to turn it off though.

Screen shot 2011-04-25 at 1.26.45 AM.png

That's my distraction for the hour. Back to studying.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Thanks David - that's quite helpful.

I did notice an article earlier today stating that Snow Leopard and even the Windows version of Safari 5 sends Apple information of some sort, but no specifics were given. If something is going on in addition to providing "Location Services" to applications - Apple's description of this "feature" is deceptive. TBA.

MoreDeception.png
 
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