Apple Loses My Respect

Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Bennett Prescott said:
I have several cards in my wallet, all of which required submitting my fingerprints to the state and to the FBI, as well as going through a criminal background check. One of them I have to renew every year. One of them doesn't get issued if you have so much as a DUI. My home state has a good history of showing up to rescind theirs when residents do things they don't like.
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;o)

It only proves that you've not been accused or convicted of a crime....not that you're not a criminal. ;o)

Hammer
 
Apple and Google

The worst case is true. They are both hideous.

For those of you that are comfortable with this, I wish you the best in Airstrip One.

What is required to get off Big Brother's radar screen is to hamstring the phone somewhat by disabling Location Services and turning off Wi-Fi.

Nothing would make me happier than to have this turn into Apple and Google's oil spill, but I have a feeling that the younger frogs in the pot that make up the majority of end users don't mind the heat. Yet.
 
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Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Jack,

The difference is that those that participate on this site, CONTROL the quantity and quality of the data we've written; and most importantly, voluntarily and with our knowledge, unlike the secretive collection of data from OUR service providers.

As others have posted.... while these personal data collection schemes may seem harmless at first glance, there are many (at this instant) trying to extrapolate ideas as to how they can profit from OUR personal data and possibly find ways to harm us.

Hammer

these Stazi/KGB like tactics of individual data collection have been exploited in the past to whole population's detriment. The individual in the U.S. has been guaranteed the right of privacy ...and I'd argue that just as an individual has the right to make any personal information public, an individual also has the right to privacy and the right to know of his personal information being made public.
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Hello Hammer, I totally get and agree with what you say.
I just found it hilarious that as soon as Langston posted that Apple could follow us, instead of protesting, "everyone" came back with, "woo hoo, look where i have been!"

Jack
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

George Orwell was off by 30 years.
He estimated human kinds motives, and ideals just right.
But he underestimated our capabilities and commitments by a bit.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Jake Scudder said:
I've never been terribly worried about anyone knowing my location. After all, most anyone who pays attention should have a pretty good idea where they can find me 8 times a week. It is interesting to me that this information is stored locally without any specific knowledge by the user.

Mine goes back to June of last year.
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I got to wonder if that application isn't a hack in of itself and enabling things you don't want. I read the thread but I won't load the app.
 
Re: Apple and Google

Well then... I reset my iPhone v4, moved the backup folder so that iTunes couldn't find it, then connected the phone to the computer and started from scratch. When the phone was setup I backed it up. Both Location Services and Wi-Fi are off and it seems to have worked - iPhoneTracker can't find anything to graph.

I'll need to let some time go by to be sure, particularly since Apple apparently attempts to spy on these things every 12 hours if there's a Wi-Fi connection.

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Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Dr. Bentsen,

There are groups in our Country that want to place a limit on the dollar amount of cash purchases.

Hammer
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The said law was passed make it more difficult to circulate laundered funds. I have no idea of whether it has worked or not.

PS: I'm not certain it's illegal to make the purchases, but you won't get a tax deduction since our IRS equivalent won't approve cash receipts for more than said amount - meaning it will prevent businesses from using as much hard cash as opposed to electronic funds.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Good thing you're not living in Norway. It's illegal for me to buy any item or service in cash for more than $1800, and try to deduct it as a business expense. If it's more than $1800, I have to use money transfer or a credit card, or I can't deduct it.
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If you're deducting it, you're alreday reporting it to the government - so no big secret there.
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Pat Latimer said:
Not exactly the same but I saw this while reading the news this morning:

http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/...et-gives-cops-quick-access-to-cell-phone-data

Here is more on the pertaining story:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/20/apple-iphone-users-beware-location-tracking/

Thought maybe I'd just throw it out there.

Pat
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Here's something from CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/04/21/iphone.tracker.explainer/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
Peace
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Veer warning-

There is an estimated $350B of tax cheating in the US (I don't know how they make that estimate), but even if it's a fraction of that, it is not good. We should pay what we owe, no more and no less.

In the recent health care bill, they included a stipulation that all business expenses over $600 would require a 1099 filing, presumably to cut down on fake deductions. Thankfully this was repealed, because it would have been a huge paperwork nightmare for small businesses and probably cost the economy more loss than the tax revenue they could raise by doing that.

That said, as we move toward more electronic payment systems, perhaps the government can reduce tax cheating, without hurting honest businesses. Tax cheats don't hurt the government, they hurt the honest people who end up paying more. A few hundred $B won't move the needle on the debt ($14T) or budget discussions, but it all adds up.

-un veer- I can think of plenty of practical utility in a log of where someone has been for the last year and exactly when.. A salesman could automatically generate reports, OTOH his boss could also keep track of him... another double edged sword.. Whether tracking employee movements is considered good or bad, probably depends on whether you're the tracker or trackee. So good in the right hands, not so desirable in the wrong hands.

JR
 
Re: Apple Loses My Respect

John Roberts said:
So good in the right hands, not so desirable in the wrong hands.

JR
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And my point is that it should be up to whomever owns the phone to determine how any information derived from its use can be retained, downloaded and/or used in any fashion by third parties.

I do not believe that a phone service provider "owns" the data it accumulates about their customers, either,m despite the user agreements. Constitution rights, by the very nature of words, should not be modifiable by contracts used to provide commodity-type services, and simply because a phone owner may not be overly concerned about his or her privacy should not make their right to privacy null and void.

Just my thoughts...
 
Metastasis

Now that 12 hours has passed, Apple's daemons woke up and triangulated cell tower positions and saved it on the phone as revealed in the backup data read by iPhoneTracker. Location Services are OFF, but I've found that only affects apps, Apple's spyware remains.

In theory, this data will not be forwarded to Apple as long as I keep the Wi-Fi disabled. Theory is fun in school but insufficient in this situation, plus I'm PAYING for these disabled feature sets. Hopefully, Apple or Google will buckle to the pressure within a week or so - otherwise I'm going to sell this thing to a young frog.

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Re: Apple Loses My Respect

Normally I'd ignore anything for Faux news (MSNBC, too), but yes, Virginia, the Android-based phones can do this, too.

I think I'll keep my Nokia e63 for a couple more years...
 
Re: Metastasis

Milt Hathaway said:
Because you seem (IMHO) to be overly concerned: http://caffeine.shugendo.org/2011/04/22/a-follow-up-on-the-iphone-location-fracas/
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I don't think Langston is being overly concerned. You have a device in your pocket that tracks your whereabouts without your consent or knowledge and sends the data back to... presumably Apple, who, by their EULA, is free to do whatever they wish with it. Where does one draw the line? "It's okay to track my moves, monitor my web usage and email content all so I can be solicited by a peddler? All without my explicit knowledge as to what & when it happens, let alone why?" Not just no, but FUCK NO.

I don't care if the younger set seems to think this is all fine & dandy... or oldsters, either. It's an intrinsic violation of the user's privacy.
 
Re: Metastasis

Tim McCulloch said:
I don't think Langston is being overly concerned. You have a device in your pocket that tracks your whereabouts without your consent or knowledge and sends the data back to... presumably Apple, who, by their EULA, is free to do whatever they wish with it. Where does one draw the line? "It's okay to track my moves, monitor my web usage and email content all so I can be solicited by a peddler? All without my explicit knowledge as to what & when it happens, let alone why?" Not just no, but FUCK NO.

I don't care if the younger set seems to think this is all fine & dandy... or oldsters, either. It's an intrinsic violation of the user's privacy.
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+1 Well put.

It does seem that the general "EULA", as used originally for computer software, has now somehow legally become the norm for cell phones and your usage data. Although I don't think I will be getting a "smartphone" anytime soon, I too would like to see these companies either get spanked or sucomb to the pressure for this. Not out of some presupposed hollow political position, but out of principle.


Tim McCulloch said:
Constitution rights, by the very nature of words, should not be modifiable by contracts used to provide commodity-type services, and simply because a phone owner may not be overly concerned about his or her privacy should not make their right to privacy null and void.
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That just about sums it up
 
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Re: Metastasis

Hi Milt:

Alex Levinson is the strongest voice in the favor of Apple in this apparent breach of privacy. He wrote a strongly worded article yesterday that starts off by saying that Apple is NOT collecting this data. Note that his livelihood depends on the ability to reveal the personal behavior of iOS device users in the greatest possible detail.

Anyway, I wrote an email to him a bit ago. Hope to have a reply soon:

From: Langston Holland <[email protected]>
Date: April 22, 2011 11:32:22 AM CDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: iPhone Tracking

Hi Alex:

I appreciate your weighing in on this very huge issue to me. I hope your blog's optimistic take on it is correct, though the WSJ published an investigative piece that directly conflicts with your claim that Apple doesn't access the tracking data.

To quote you:

"I have no problem with what Mr. Warden and Mr. Allan have created or presented on, but I do take issue with them making erroneous claims..."

"Apple is not collecting this data. And to suggest otherwise is completely misrepresenting Apple."

To quote Apple in a letter sent to Congress in July 2010:

"This information is batched and then encrypted and transmitted to Apple over a Wi-Fi Internet connection every twelve hours (or later if the device does not have Wi-Fi Internet access at that time)"

How do you reconcile this?

Source:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...53610.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

God bless you and your precious family - Langston
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