Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

I also have two 6000dsp.

I find the hiss quite loud in standby when no music is playing. It isn't noticable when playing...

I had my second show tonight with NU4-6000. It actually saw minimal usage, but I listened to the hiss. Wide open, it was present but not as loud as I expected based on your comment. I put the amp inputs at about 12:00, though, and I couldn't hear it at all.

I don't like having minimal travel on the send pots, and like to run them a little hot.

These amps are going to fit nicely into my work, as long as they hold up. I really like the size and weight per output. My previous amps were Carver 2.0's and 1250's, and I was willing to put up with some shortcomings to have 10 pound amps. With the 4 channel amps, they are like 6 pound amps.

YMMV.
 
I had my second show tonight with NU4-6000. It actually saw minimal usage, but I listened to the hiss. Wide open, it was present but not as loud as I expected based on your comment. I put the amp inputs at about 12:00, though, and I couldn't hear it at all.

I don't like having minimal travel on the send pots, and like to run them a little hot.

These amps are going to fit nicely into my work, as long as they hold up. I really like the size and weight per output. My previous amps were Carver 2.0's and 1250's, and I was willing to put up with some shortcomings to have 10 pound amps. With the 4 channel amps, they are like 6 pound amps.

YMMV.

If turning down gains lowers hiss the hiss is originating upstream of the amp.

Sent from my SCH-I545
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

I had my second show tonight with NU4-6000. It actually saw minimal usage, but I listened to the hiss. Wide open, it was present but not as loud as I expected based on your comment. I put the amp inputs at about 12:00, though, and I couldn't hear it at all.



YMMV.

Disconnect the input to the amp, then do your test of moving the gain control and tell us what happens as far as hiss.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

If turning down gains lowers hiss the hiss is originating upstream of the amp.

Sent from my SCH-I545

This is generally true for modern power amps that exhibit very low input noise. However, if a power amp includes DSP in it's front end, that DSP will appear like it is upstream of the power amp. I do not know that this is what people are hearing, but it could be.

JR
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Disconnect the input to the amp, then do your test of moving the gain control and tell us what happens as far as hiss.
My hiss is still present with the amp gain controls at the minimum position and the dsp in its neutral setting.

I guess that I can take a j48 and measure the hiss from the speaker output in a daw the next time I have them out.

I'd rather not connect my oscilloscope directly to the speaker output unless I'm 100% confident that it wouldn't create a bad ground loop that kills the amp...
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

If turning down gains lowers hiss the hiss is originating upstream of the amp.

Sent from my SCH-I545

Yes, it was likely the hiss that is present in the X32 as a baseline.

It bugged me a little bit when I first got the consoles, but then I connected an APB House Rack with outboard to the same speakers that were bothering me a little with the X32, and while the House Rack was quieter than the X32 by a bit with the HR master down, it was vastly louder when set to unity, whereas the X32 was the exact same hiss level at infinity and unity.

The House Rack has always been perceptibly quiet, so I've never at all worried about the X32 hiss level since that comparison.

Again, as I said before, last night it was a little noticeable when the amp was at no attenuation, and perceptually gone when at 12:00. If you weren't listening hard in a dead quiet space, it would have been perceptually gone at full. And it turned out the band literally barely used the monitors anyway (big jazz band).

Edit: These are the non-DSP amps.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Yes, it was likely the hiss that is present in the X32 as a baseline.

It bugged me a little bit when I first got the consoles, but then I connected an APB House Rack with outboard to the same speakers that were bothering me a little with the X32, and while the House Rack was quieter than the X32 by a bit with the HR master down, it was vastly louder when set to unity, whereas the X32 was the exact same hiss level at infinity and unity.

The House Rack has always been perceptibly quiet, so I've never at all worried about the X32 hiss level since that comparison.

Again, as I said before, last night it was a little noticeable when the amp was at no attenuation, and perceptually gone when at 12:00. If you weren't listening hard in a dead quiet space, it would have been perceptually gone at full. And it turned out the band literally barely used the monitors anyway (big jazz band).

Edit: These are the non-DSP amps.

Analog and digital consoles both must obey the same laws of physics regarding signal to noise, so I expect both will deliver roughly similar S/N wrt real signals. unless one or the other is designed poorly or gain struture is set unusually.

If the X-32 has the same hiss level at (minus?) infinity and unity, are you talking about muted inputs or some no channels assigned condition? If the APB is vastly noisier than your X-32 when both are set to unity with similar input sources*** playing something is very very wrong. I expect the noise floor of both to be dominated by mic preamps and room noise.


JR

*** listening to noise floors with inputs muted may be entertaining but is not very representative of real world in use dynamic range.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

If the X-32 has the same hiss level at (minus?) infinity and unity, are you talking about muted inputs or some no channels assigned condition?

SNIP
*** listening to noise floors with inputs muted may be entertaining but is not very representative of real world in use dynamic range.

Yes. I wasn't listening for dynamic range or anything happening in use.

Plug in the console to speakers and listen to hiss. Master down then master up, no input faders up. Channels muted or not, whatever. Listen to the other console. End.

My experience in use with channels open for both consoles has been quite acceptable. Next time I'm in the shop I'll make a point of getting a mic at the same level on each console and listening to the noise floor. My belief is that both will be good; if one is a little more good than the other, that will tell me they are different but still fine, based on what I repeatedly hear at the gigs through the mains and what the musicians repeatedly tell me about the monitors after I've verified functionality.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Yes. I wasn't listening for dynamic range or anything happening in use.

Plug in the console to speakers and listen to hiss. Master down then master up, no input faders up. Channels muted or not, whatever. Listen to the other console. End.

My experience in use with channels open for both consoles has been quite acceptable. Next time I'm in the shop I'll make a point of getting a mic at the same level on each console and listening to the noise floor. My belief is that both will be good; if one is a little more good than the other, that will tell me they are different but still fine, based on what I repeatedly hear at the gigs through the mains and what the musicians repeatedly tell me about the monitors after I've verified functionality.

Don't bother for me... the two mic preamps "should" be similar in noise figure... (We've been bumping against theoretical levels for decades).

This WFO listening test without even one open mic used to drive me bat___ crazy back when I was still designing consoles.

JR
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Don't bother for me... the two mic preamps "should" be similar in noise figure... (We've been bumping against theoretical levels for decades).

This WFO listening test without even one open mic used to drive me bat___ crazy back when I was still designing consoles.

JR
we had a local store that used to "prove" that brand x was quieter than brand z. They would open up the gains and all the channel and master faders and sure enough Brand x produced less noise.

HOWEVER brand Z had more overall gain-but they did not try (or even understand) that matching overall gains was somehow "important".

I also know a store that years ago would "prove" that one 500 watt amp was "louder" than a different brand 500 watt amp. They would run the same signal into both amps and sure enough one was louder. So that was their "proof".

And sadly many people believed that. NEVER MIND the GAIN of the amp-we don't need to be bothered with little things like that-ya know engineering stuff. Because all you had to do was LISTEN. Yeah right--------------------------
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Design engineers spend a great deal of effort eliminating such inconsequential differences when performing listening tests. I have pretty much convinced myself that I can't hear much of anything, especially things I can't measure. :-) Luckily we have so many people who can hear these angels footsteps.

JR
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Just got our VP2520 back that had the bad woofer cone from the care center. They said we blew it and the coil is cooked so it's not covered by the warranty. They were stupid enough to send the cabinet back with the cone cut out and hanging so we can see the coil. It's no where near cooked but has the the worst coil wrap we have seen in a while. This is why that cone was defective from the get go. Anyone wants the video we'll post it.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

This is interesting, Robert. For those following along, the noise that I've noticed seems to be affecting only the dsp versions. I compared an nu3000 to an nu6000dsp and they were in different worlds as far as hiss goes. Anyone else with a dsp model who can comment? And as far as measuring the output of the 6000 models, I would be careful. The bridged output configuration means that neither + or - is grounded so you don't want to connect either of them to the ground of your O-scope. On the other hand, the output from the J48 might be telling, especially if you have another amp to compare to.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

The care center sent us back the cabinet with the cone hanging out so we could actually see the burnt coil ourselves. The video link is below, you tell us, burnt coil or very bad wrap. The coil looks nice and shiny to us but has a big split in the wrap. The coil isn't loose, that wrap probably didn't move there it is fixed in that position. This is why this cabinet had noticeably lower volume from the beginning we suspect.
IMG 0808 - YouTube
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

David

The coil has moved too far out and then collided into motor-structure ( centerpole and faceplate ) instead of going back into gap. This is propably because of too much power in sub-frequencies. What kind of low-cut you have in your system?

Voice coil can burn fast without turning black - especially, when jammed.

Did you write sometimes, that this happened in karaoke night - or is it just my illusion - ???

Nuuska
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

The care center sent us back the cabinet with the cone hanging out so we could actually see the burnt coil ourselves. The video link is below, you tell us, burnt coil or very bad wrap. The coil looks nice and shiny to us but has a big split in the wrap. The coil isn't loose, that wrap probably didn't move there it is fixed in that position. This is why this cabinet had noticeably lower volume from the beginning we suspect.
IMG 0808 - YouTube
Regardless of the voice coil being burned or not you smashed the hell out of the voice coil former by bottoming out with too much power too low in frequency. With a NU6000 you were supplying these poor little 500w 4 ohm cabs with 3000w each, a 6x overage 8O~8-O~:shock: . They would have been fine on an NU3000 with proper low pass filtering. As a comparison I power my 600w 2x12 sub cabinets with an NU3000 (not bridged) and I was running 110dBC at 20 feet last Friday night (stoopid loud drummer, only kick mic'd :?~:-?~:???:) . And even then I had another ~5dB available. How loud do you need to run those anyways 8O~8-O~:shock: ?
 
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Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

I have already posted the volume never gets past 9 o'clock. It's a little before, actually maybe 8:45 at the loudest ever on the EP 4000. That's under 25% of the total volume. Usually it's set at about 7:30 when I want to listen to some tunes off my iphone. All my tracks have been DB powered amp so all the tunes have the same DB settings. This is to protect the system from major clipping and I don't have to run over and keep raising and lowering the volume levels between tracks. These settings were in surprisingly similar locations on the dial for both amps except oddly enough I noticed the NU6 when not earthed would have a higher volume at a lower setting on the dial. Being the NU6 wouldn't stay awake for us it was never used for anything and it was returned. These speakers have never left my living room karaoke system and the same volume level is maintained even during karaoke. Has to be, this is Japan, my closest neighbor is maybe 35 feet from the front of the VP2520's cab's and if the windows are open he's complaining. Karaoke is maybe once every 6 weeks around here so when I noticed the speaker making strange noise it was while listening to my iphone. When I had the NU6 briefly the PEQ was set with low cut at 50hz, the EP 4000 has a setting on the AMP that's also set at low cut for 50hz. Everything up stream of the amp is basically set at flat except for the low cut. The video itself is actually upside down. I didn't flip it back when I encoded it to MP4. Can somebody take another look because my feeling is if the cone extruded to far and upon reentry hit something mechanical the split in the coil would be going in the opposite direction. I don't see anything that it can impact going in the other direction while extruding but that's the way split in the coil dictates. I have tried to close that split n the coil with a flat head screwdriver and its not budging under normal pressure. These cabinets have never been really heated up, when I do entertain company folks over here being mostly Japanese they like to drink talk and sing so we need to let a guy sing at one end of the living room while the rest of us are carrying on a conversation on the other and keep the neighbors happy too. I don't get it.
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Can somebody take another look because my feeling is if the cone extruded to far and upon reentry hit something mechanical the split in the coil would be going in the opposite direction.
No, what happened is the coil former bottomed out and the coil tried to keep going. Even the EP4000 is way too much power - 1400w is almost 3x the cab's 500w rating. Those poor wimpy cabs didn't stand a chance x(~:dead: .
 


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