High output subwoofers.

H

Helge A. Bentsen

Senior
Jan 19, 2011
1,017
64
48
44
Oslo, Norway, Norway
drbentsen.no
I'm researching subs with high output for a specific application where we are limited by the numbers of cabinets(12). I did some reading around the interwebs and there are two units units that place themselves at the top, Danley TH812 and McCauley M421.

Now, if we for a minute look away from all the usual considerations (price, amp cost, processing demand, truck space, weight, sound quality etc.) which one of these two produce the highest level of output if you put them out in a open field with the manufacturers recommended amp and processing?

Are there any rental houses in Europe that stock 12 of either of these? I could rent them from the US, but shipping would probably be cheaper from Europe.
And are there any other subs I should consider with that kind of output?

I've used 12 EAW BH760 once, that was impressive. I see a lot of them used, but I believe that they are a bit short on output for this application.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

I've got no particular experience with high output subs but are you limited to 12 cabinets what ever their size or some set of physical dimensions as installed.

I'd say that 12 Matterhorn's would pretty much blow anything else out of the water :)

Philip
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Helge, i have used 12 BH760 powered with Powersoft K6 about 10 times. I dont really find them that impressive to be honest.
There is a review from Bennett about the McCauley box. Ivan will surely be able to give you some input on the Danley subs. But my question is. What are you trying to achieve? What kind of sound you need from those subs? They dont all sound the same. Reagrdles of the output, it might not be the sound you are looking for.
So give us some more info.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
DJ in a open field. No live music, just bone shattering loud low end for a couple of thousand people.
I found Bennett's article, that's we're my search started.
Nice piece of writing btw :)
Click to expand...

I heard the McCauley box.... I wasn't thrilled with its sound but it sure rattled some bones...and ceiling tiles...and glasses.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

I think that you must add in this category also Adamson T21 sub and they used Kevlar drivers. It is most powerfull sub I ever heard.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Depending on how low you want to go (is 30Hzish enough?), Danley will have a new box by the end of next week that is the same size as the TH812-but louder-and less wattage. Details to follow.

As far as anybody having 12 TH812 for rent-none that I know of. You do realize how loud 12 would be?????????? I know a place in Germany you could get 6.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

I used 12 JBL S28 this year, good subs and plenty of level for my taste, but the customer wanted more.
I firmly believe that 6 TH812 would be loud enough, but they insist on 12. I could use some S28 as well so they get 12 subs and probably get away with it :)
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Mike Plo said:
I think that you must add in this category also Adamson T21 sub and they used Kevlar drivers. It is most powerfull sub I ever heard.
Click to expand...

You need to hear the other two, the T21 is a solid step or two down from either the M421 or Danley TH812.

One possible reason to go with the Danley TH812-the likelyhood of driver failure is spread out over less expensive to replace/recone 12" drivers vs the very expensive 21" drivers used by McCauley or Adamson(or anyone else).

That said, I'd also look at the Danley TH221, as it is pretty close in sensitivity to the TH812, but has an F3 of 22hz. Depending on what low end cutoff for the system is desired, dialing a group of 12 TH221 with a high pass at 25hz instead of twelve TH812 set with a high pass of 30hz may have more impact at nearly the same SPL levels because of the extra bandwidth at the low end. Given that it's outside, this may be "more better". ;>)

Best regards,

John
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

I actually think that 12" drivers is a good idea for another reason, namely impact. These guys like to feel the impact more than extreme low frequency extension. My labsubs (witch I don't think would deliver enough output, but I have 12 of them) have gotten a lot of praise from people in the past because they have some serious impact. People call their sound "quick".

So if we're running with 12" subs, that leaves me with three choices AFAIK:
- Danley TH812. Loudest on paper, probably in real life as well. I'm still impressed by my SH50s, I have no reason to expect lesser performance from their other products.
- EAW BH760. Plenty of these around, and they are cheap. Could probably buy 12 of them for the same price as renting the Danleys. Not entirely sure about their SPL level, I've used them twice, once with 8 and once with 12 IIRC. That was loud enough to keep up with 16 KF740 and then some. But not sure if that would be an improvement over S28, the ones I use this year. On paper they have 7dB more output than the S28, and 7 less than TH812.
- Try my labs against the S28 and see how they stack up. I suspect pretty similar performance in terms of SPL.

I see a field test coming up later this summer. That's always fun :)

Edit: In terms of directivity,. I don't have a stage or somewhere I can't spill low end onto. Put I prefer to keep the low end inside the audience area, this year it was roughly 30x30 meters.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
I used 12 JBL S28 this year, good subs and plenty of level for my taste, but the customer wanted more.
I firmly believe that 6 TH812 would be loud enough, but they insist on 12. I could use some S28 as well so they get 12 subs and probably get away with it :)
Click to expand...

First I thought you were working on a project where the client said "12 subs max, no more" and you wanted to get super-high-output subs to acheive enough SPL with "only" 12.

Now, you're saying "6 TH812 would be loud enough, but the client insists on the full amount of 12 subs regardless of brand".

Well, can't you just rent 12 of a sub that you can find locally in Norway that will play as loud as 6 TH812?

I'm confused...
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

I don't think there are 12 subs in Norway that would go as loud as 6 TH812. At least not if you sum up their stated SPL numbers :)

6 TH812 + 6 other subs makes for a total of 12. The client insist on 12. It's a possible solution, but we'll se where this turns. I got a couple of offers on hand that needs testing.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

So i guess music is a DJ with some EDM content. So what i think you miss there is the punch. Lab subs dont have much of that. I have owned 4 so i know this for a fact. You need to add some boxes that can do a lot of 80-120Hz. Not sure what you use above the labsubs, maybe your problem is there. Not at the subs.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Marjan Milosevic said:
So i guess music is a DJ with some EDM content. So what i think you miss there is the punch. Lab subs dont have much of that. I have owned 4 so i know this for a fact. You need to add some boxes that can do a lot of 80-120Hz. Not sure what you use above the labsubs, maybe your problem is there. Not at the subs.
Click to expand...

When you're looking for massive punch, the sub/top alignment becomes very important as the "punch" range is usually right on top of your crossover point.
 
Re: High output subwoofers.

Silas Pradetto said:
When you're looking for massive punch, the sub/top alignment becomes very important as the "punch" range is usually right on top of your crossover point.
Click to expand...

I learned that the hard way. I messed up my alignment one day and it sounded like shit. I forgot to check the base delay on one of the subarrays, it was 6ms off. So I measured one side, got it pretty good, but everything collapsed when I turned on the whole system. Took some troubleshooting to figure out what was wrong. This year I used 20 JBL VTX V25 as mains with a xo of 80 hz. I ran out of headroom in the subs first(s28). Nothing wrong with the system regarding sound quality, I'm rather pleased with that, but I'd like to bring in some more subs because I was hitting the limiters pretty hard on them, but I can't use more than 12. Lowering the xo to 60 got me some more headroom but a more un-even subwoofer coverage, so I'm looking for options :)

I fully understand if you think this is crazy, because it is. But the customer asked for a solution and he's willing to pay for it. So I thought I'd look into it and give him some options.

This thread shows what the challenge is....
http://soundforums.net/basement/7133-loud-enough.html
 
Top Bottom