Infocomm???

[Eric Lenasbunt]

Re: Infocomm???

Ivan, give us some more details on the Exodus line already!

Thank you,

Jeff

It has line array style form factor to play tricks on the eye...

 

[Eric Lenasbunt]

Re: Infocomm???

I'm shocked the Danley speakers sound good?

Anybody who is surprised by this hasn't been paying attention.

Congrats as usual.

JR

PS: Later you can tell us how a line array can be a single sound source. If course calling a point source a line array when customers are demanding line arrays is just smart business.

I was surprised by HOW MUCH of a difference. It was not subtle. I have been reading and hearing the comments but I think it is truly hard to understand the stunning difference until you hear it.

 

[David Sturzenbecher]

Re: Infocomm???

I was surprised as to the complete absence of a center image in the Danley room when I was told the entire room would be able to localize it to the phantom center. Like I was impressed how absolutely nothing imaged to the center. I was maybe 5ft off the centerline.




Sent from my iPhone

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Infocomm???

Ivan, give us some more details on the Exodus line already!

Thank you,

Jeff

The Danley Exodus is a fully integrated flyable or ground stackable highly accurate sound system that can produce high SPL’s while still sounding like a studio monitor.

In the “beginning stage” the system is 3 boxes. A sub, which has a high power single 18” driver in a long horn. It is designed to be used in pairs-so the mouth exits form a larger horn. The response is not the normal flat type response. But rather a rising one, that provides lots of punch, while still being able to go low. The low “corner” is around 40hz, but actually produces lower freq very well.

The response is great for standard “kick drum rock and pop shows”. For shows that need a lower freq response, subs on the ground are a good idea.

There are 2 full range cabinets. The “mid/short” coverage box has a coverage angle of 90x60 and has 2x15” high power woofers, 2x6.5” mids and a single high output 1.4” HF driver, all on a synergy horn

The “long” coverage box is 60x20 and has 2x15” high power woofers, 6x 6.5” mids and 2x1.4” high output drivers on a paraline lens on a single Synergy horn. This is great for “getting the vocals” out to the far audience members.

Both full range cabinets come with the Danley Sentinel protection circuit on the HF driver (s). This provides both peak and continuous level control/protection, based on the current and voltage going to the HF device. This circuit stays out of the way, until dangerous levels are reached-then it reduces the level to stay within the "safe" zone. When the dangerous levels have passed-the circuit is once again "out of the way"

The peak protection has a very fast attack time of 8 us (MICRO) seconds. NOT milli seconds.

The continuous circuit attach time depends on the level of overload. For small overloads, it is pretty long, but as the level of the overload increases, the attach time decreases to protect the driver.

It is not an "abrupt" change-but rather an "easy over" type of limiter.

The boxes interlock with deep male/female skids so they don’t slid around for ground stacking.

Standard flytracks are provided for flying the rig.

When the system is flown with the 90x60 cabinet on the bottom-a pair of subs in the middle, and the 60x20 box on top, the low freq pattern control is extended down lower than a single box can provide.
All of the drivers in both cabinets are the same, and they are all standard-off the shelf components that you can buy anywhere and any reconer can get parts for. So you are not locked into having to get “special” parts from Danley

Detailed specs will be forth coming.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Infocomm???

...like price range?

The prices have not been finalized on the Exodus line yet. We don't have all the details of what it costs to make yet.

And as I have said before-I stay away from all pricing questions. You can call your rep and get pricing from them when it is available.

It looks like the first install may be this July in a HS soccer stadium.

 

[Ben Gingerich]

Re: Infocomm???

Day 1 (for me) at infocomm.
I spent most of the day scouting out stuff then a few demos at the end of day.

The S6L looks very nice but the software is not finished yet, alot of the customizing features have not been implemented yet so we will have to see how that goes. I'm excited i will be able to take my show files from the older Avid stuff to the new line!

Allen and Heaths new stuff is pretty cool too.

There was a console i had never seen before Lawo MC2 36, it looked very nice, felt durable and was easy to get around on, it sounded good too but the faders and nobs didn't feel right to me.

S21 was very impressive for the price point considering the expandability and features.

Danleys are the only speakers i heard and i missed the last real demo, so i will hold out judgement until tomorrow, but my initial impression was the Exodus seemed kind of thin in the few seconds i heard them, but that could have been the content played through them too.
They had a little prototype box that sounded GREAT though.

Ill give another update Saturday after i get back home.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: Infocomm???

The Danley Exodus is a fully integrated flyable or ground stackable highly accurate sound system that can produce high SPL’s while still sounding like a studio monitor.

In the “beginning stage” the system is 3 boxes. A sub, which has a high power single 18” driver in a long horn. It is designed to be used in pairs-so the mouth exits form a larger horn. The response is not the normal flat type response. But rather a rising one, that provides lots of punch, while still being able to go low. The low “corner” is around 40hz, but actually produces lower freq very well.

The response is great for standard “kick drum rock and pop shows”. For shows that need a lower freq response, subs on the ground are a good idea.

There are 2 full range cabinets. The “mid/short” coverage box has a coverage angle of 90x60 and has 2x15” high power woofers, 2x6.5” mids and a single high output 1.4” HF driver, all on a synergy horn

The “long” coverage box is 60x20 and has 2x15” high power woofers, 6x 6.5” mids and 2x1.4” high output drivers on a paraline lens on a single Synergy horn. This is great for “getting the vocals” out to the far audience members.

Both full range cabinets come with the Danley Sentinel protection circuit on the HF driver (s). This provides both peak and continuous level control/protection, based on the current and voltage going to the HF device. This circuit stays out of the way, until dangerous levels are reached-then it reduces the level to stay within the "safe" zone. When the dangerous levels have passed-the circuit is once again "out of the way"

The peak protection has a very fast attack time of 8 us (MICRO) seconds. NOT milli seconds.

The continuous circuit attach time depends on the level of overload. For small overloads, it is pretty long, but as the level of the overload increases, the attach time decreases to protect the driver.

It is not an "abrupt" change-but rather an "easy over" type of limiter.

The boxes interlock with deep male/female skids so they don’t slid around for ground stacking.

Standard flytracks are provided for flying the rig.

When the system is flown with the 90x60 cabinet on the bottom-a pair of subs in the middle, and the 60x20 box on top, the low freq pattern control is extended down lower than a single box can provide.
All of the drivers in both cabinets are the same, and they are all standard-off the shelf components that you can buy anywhere and any reconer can get parts for. So you are not locked into having to get “special” parts from Danley

Detailed specs will be forth coming.

LOL – so the Exodus actually has 4 different acoustic point sources despite your earlier post – one for the long throw box, one for the short throw, one for the flown 18” bass bins and one for (I assume) the ground stacked subs :razz:

I’m sure it sounds really great but it looks like you have the same issues as everyone else when you try to make things scalable … even just a little scalable.

Conceptually it similar to the old Nexo Alpha system stacked - M3 on top of 2 x B1’s and an M8 on the bottom.

Sorry mate – I could not resist ~~:smile:~~:smile:

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Infocomm???

LOL – so the Exodus actually has 4 different acoustic point sources despite your earlier post – one for the long throw box, one for the short throw, one for the flown 18” bass bins and one for (I assume) the ground stacked subs :razz:

I’m sure it sounds really great but it looks like you have the same issues as everyone else when you try to make things scalable … even just a little scalable.

Conceptually it similar to the old Nexo Alpha system stacked - M3 on top of 2 x B1’s and an M8 on the bottom.

Sorry mate – I could not resist ~~:smile:~~:smile:

You have to look at the size of the wavelengths involved.

Both of the full range boxes are well within 1/4 wavelength of the sub cabinets in the range of their operation.

And due to the pattern control of the full range boxes (something the industry has seem to forgotten), the level from one box is greatly reduced in the coverage area of the other box. So the interference is GREATLY reduced because the levels are not the same.

You also do no have to use both full range cabinets. You could use 1 or the other. It just depends on the size show that is being done. In most cases just a single would be fine.

Of course if you want to use just a single cabinet-we have plenty with much greater output-the Jericho line up. And more to come.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Infocomm???

I was surprised as to the complete absence of a center image in the Danley room when I was told the entire room would be able to localize it to the phantom center. Like I was impressed how absolutely nothing imaged to the center. I was maybe 5ft off the centerline.




Sent from my iPhone

No product will give the phantom center when off center

What the ability to produce a center phantom shows is the phase coherence of each of the sources

The importance of phase coherence is accuracy in the signal reproduction

 

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: Infocomm???

You have to look at the size of the wavelengths involved.

Both of the full range boxes are well within 1/4 wavelength of the sub cabinets in the range of their operation.

And due to the pattern control of the full range boxes (something the industry has seem to forgotten), the level from one box is greatly reduced in the coverage area of the other box. So the interference is GREATLY reduced because the levels are not the same.

No (or minimal) interaction between multiple point sources is not the same as a single point source. And it sounds like the coupling between the subs and full-range boxes is basically the same as one sees any time full range boxes and subs are stacked together (which isn't uncommon)

 

[David Sturzenbecher]

Re: Infocomm???

No product will give the phantom center when off center

What the ability to produce a center phantom shows is the phase coherence of each of the sources

The importance of phase coherence is accuracy in the signal reproduction

Then why did Mike say the sweet spot for the phantom center was almost the entire room?


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: Infocomm???

Someone elsewhere on the internet was very excited about "Go audio speakers." I can't find them anywhere on the internet. Does anyone know who and what they are, as well as if the "Clarity is insane [and] puts a lot of national brands to shame"

Seemed like someone who didn't know better to me.

 

[Eric Lenasbunt]

Re: Infocomm???

Someone elsewhere on the internet was very excited about "Go audio speakers." I can't find them anywhere on the internet. Does anyone know who and what they are, as well as if the "Clarity is insane [and] puts a lot of national brands to shame"

Seemed like someone who didn't know better to me.

The Go2 is what DSL unveiled at the show. I don't know if that is what they were talking about, but the clarity is insane on those.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: Infocomm???

Then why did Mike say the sweet spot for the phantom center was almost the entire room?


Sent from my iPhone

Ivan is correct.

It’s about the different time arrivals from the two sources. When you move off centre, and you don't have to move very far, the time arrivals are too different to create a phantom centre.

Very generally, the better the speaker the stronger the stereo image and the depth of field but it will only happen in the centre.

Some high end respected line arrays will not produce a stereo image because of the multiple time arrivals from the various HF elements– better designed line arrays will produce a good stereo image.

The more detailed and the better time behaviour of the speaker the better the stereo image.

The quality of stereo image is a good indicator of the quality of the speaker.

http://acousticslab.org/psychoacoustics/PMFiles/Module07a.htm

 

[Mike Hedden]

Re: Infocomm???

Then why did Mike say the sweet spot for the phantom center was almost the entire room?

David. If I said that I indeed misspoke. I've done multiple hours of presentations over four days and it sounds like I scrambled the thought. What I meant to say was the stereo image is almost the entire room and the phantom center channel is there all the way to almost the screen. In other words you can walk from the back of the room to the front and the room and as long you're in the direct pattern of both cabinets you have the phantom center.
Yesterday we got one of the most epic studios in the world asking us to build them a set of monitors due to this demo and confirmation of performance


Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc

 

[Jason Lavoie]

Re: Infocomm???

Fulcrum small cardioid array was pretty impressive too, almost no energy off the back of the array. Sharp guys with great design philosophy.

Of special note is that they achieved the cardioid pattern passively. so 4x 16ohm boxes on one amp channel and one DSP channel. no fancy settings, just cardioid right out of the box.

Jason

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Infocomm???

Ivan is correct.

It’s about the different time arrivals from the two sources. When you move off centre, and you don't have to move very far, the time arrivals are too different to create a phantom centre.

Very generally, the better the speaker the stronger the stereo image and the depth of field but it will only happen in the centre.

Some high end respected line arrays will not produce a stereo image because of the multiple time arrivals from the various HF elements– better designed line arrays will produce a good stereo image.

The more detailed and the better time behaviour of the speaker the better the stereo image.

The quality of stereo image is a good indicator of the quality of the speaker.

http://acousticslab.org/psychoacoustics/PMFiles/Module07a.htm

Of course stereo image and phantom center are very different things

They often get confused

 

[Kevin Maxwell]

Re: Infocomm???

Of special note is that they achieved the cardioid pattern passively. so 4x 16ohm boxes on one amp channel and one DSP channel. no fancy settings, just cardioid right out of the box.

Jason

I thought that the trick to the Fulcrum stuff was their fancy (locked up) DSP settings with FIR filters. I heard a demo a while ago and was very impressed with the sound of their speakers.

I may be involved with a system upgrade and they are on my list to demo for these folks. If we do a one to one replacement we will need between 11 and 19 of them but I don’t know yet if we will really need more of less. And I don’t know if we really will need to replace all of them. We definitely need to replace 11 of them because those aren’t made to hang from the factory. But that’s another story.

There is another speaker manufacturer that I might consider if I can get an acceptable demo. I have had high hopes but they failed the demo I heard, that was at the same place I heard the Fulcrum speakers. I had to leave the room because they were so uncomfortable to listen to. But so many people seem to love them and theoretically they should sound better then they did in that demo.

 

[David Sturzenbecher]

Infocomm???

I thought that the trick to the Fulcrum stuff was their fancy (locked up) DSP settings with FIR filters. I heard a demo a while ago and was very impressed with the sound of their speakers.
.

Kevin,
Fulcrum does some pretty amazing stuff (far beyond anyone else IMO) with their FIR processing. After talking to the guys this week, the rear rejection achieved with their new array is not due to any digital processing. This rejection and the overall sound of the box itself was quite impressive. I am really hoping these guys can get a demo room one of these years.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Infocomm???

No (or minimal) interaction between multiple point sources is not the same as a single point source. And it sounds like the coupling between the subs and full-range boxes is basically the same as one sees any time full range boxes and subs are stacked together (which isn't uncommon)

Agreed. But you cannot have a single source with multiple boxes.

What you CAN do is to minimize the interference, so that it closely behaves as a single source.

One way you can minimize the interaction between full range and sub cabinets is to make sure the full range cabinets go down well below 100Hz, which the XD series does. Here the wavelengths become longer-so they are easier to combine as one.

The other big difference between the XD approach is that each full range cabinet acts as a single source (not 2 or 3 individual sources) AND the fact they they are loaded on large horns, which GREATLY helps reduce the interaction between cabinets.

If you want a true single source-we have several choices in both output capability-patterns and freq response.