Mini Line Array

Re: Mini Line Array

Eddie...

You may not be aware of the level of knowledge and experience of the responders on this Forum. You have been given some analysis by very "heavy hitters" in the loudspeaker industry. This is not your average Internet chat-space.

Right now you really need to learn the difference between "noise" and "sound". Continue on your present course and you'll be able to make some noise, but it's not going to sound good. And unless your business can support a VERY substantial cash outlay for a properly engineered SYSTEM, you'll be relegated to the world of crap DJ sound with all the attendant problems.

If your market will pay for that, then go ahead. But I think even the general public can/will put up with noise instead of sound for only a short time. You will not get any repeat business with noise.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Dick Rees said:
Eddie...

You may not be aware of the level of knowledge and experience of the responders on this Forum. You have been given some analysis by very "heavy hitters" in the loudspeaker industry. This is not your average Internet chat-space.

Right now you really need to learn the difference between "noise" and "sound". Continue on your present course and you'll be able to make some noise, but it's not going to sound good. And unless your business can support a VERY substantial cash outlay for a properly engineered SYSTEM, you'll be relegated to the world of crap DJ sound with all the attendant problems.

If your market will pay for that, then go ahead. But I think even the general public can/will put up with noise instead of sound for only a short time. You will not get any repeat business with noise.
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Eddie is not looking for advice, he's looking for validation of a decision he's already made (whether or not he realizes it yet).
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Jeff Babcock said:
Tim, to be clear, I was suggesting 100K as a starting point for a 5000 person gig just for speakers and amps. Probably used.... I have seen used KF730 rigs with SB1000's sell in that range.
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I have seen a couple of fairly potent Nexo rigs for sale in the $100K vicinity, so I'm sure it can be done, even for crowds exceeding 5000.
I guess it depends on how you pack the crowd, you can pack 20000 into half a football field if you really try :twisted:


Tim McCulloch said:
Eddie is not looking for advice, he's looking for validation of a decision he's already made (whether or not he realizes it yet).
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oh, I think we all have been guilty of that. :blush:
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Tim McCulloch said:
Eddie is not looking for advice, he's looking for validation of a decision he's already made (whether or not he realizes it yet).
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+1 Which is why I've been silent on this thread and also why I didn't bother to reply further on the PSW thread after the OP insisted that his "next step includes a line array" (despite the fact that he admitted that his current rig was probably not being properly powered and deployed).

I'm by no means a line array hater, but line array for the sake of a line array is just silly. I'll keep my trap boxes until I can afford to do it right.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Tim McCulloch said:
Eddie is not looking for advice, he's looking for validation of a decision he's already made (whether or not he realizes it yet).
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That seems to be a very common point around here-------------------------------

ANd then people try to "defend" their idea-even though everybody else is telling them what is wrong with the idea.

Oh well------------------------
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Spenser Hamilton said:
but line array for the sake of a line array is just silly. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Welcome to what most of the industry thinks. Most people that "have to have a line array" cannot give even a basic answer as to why it "might" be better.

Only that "it is popular" and "the latest thing"-so they want one.

I would argue that in many cases that a line array is used-better results could be obtained using other means-and in most cases for a lot less money.

The loudspeaker driver manufacturer just LOVE line arrays-because they sell more drivers. But more is not always better.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

In addition, you have to know enough to be able to use the applicable measurement/aiming system to get the system to work. Nothing sounds worse than an improperly deployed "line array". Possibly the most expensive mistake someone in the OP's situation can make.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

The OP seems to have bailed on this thread...

Anyway, I am curious how a thread called Mini Line Array that mentioned small stages and line array cabs with 8 inch drivers suddenly morphed into discussion about Arena sized shows that could involve hundred of thousands, if not millions, of dollars worth of gear.

OP, if you are still reading, maybe it would be wise to start over in a new thread, more clearly stating what you currently do and what you want to do in A LOT more detail, including your budget to do this, the size of your crew, and your logistics resources.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Jeff Babcock said:
Anyway, I am curious how a thread called Mini Line Array that mentioned small stages and line array cabs with 8 inch drivers suddenly morphed into discussion about Arena sized shows that could involve hundred of thousands, if not millions, of dollars worth of gear.
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I guess that came about because the OP wanted to buy a mini line array to cover crowds of 20.000 , wanting to replace one inadequate set-up with another.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Jeff Babcock said:
The OP seems to have bailed on this thread...

Anyway, I am curious how a thread called Mini Line Array that mentioned small stages and line array cabs with 8 inch drivers suddenly morphed into discussion about Arena sized shows that could involve hundred of thousands, if not millions, of dollars worth of gear.

OP, if you are still reading, maybe it would be wise to start over in a new thread, more clearly stating what you currently do and what you want to do in A LOT more detail, including your budget to do this, the size of your crew, and your logistics resources.
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It would seem that the bulk of his business was wedding/party DJ's. His stated objective was to have 4 or more such systems that would do multi-thousand person audiences when combined.

The dream of ultimate scalability.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Marjan Milosevic said:
You are all forgetting one thing. He is in South Africa. So his spl expectation will vary comparing of what we think it is needed for 20000 people. I remember we used to use not such big systems like 25 years ago as we do today.
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EXACTLY the reason it is important to state the needed SPL (and the weighting and response time so it makes sense) MUCH more so than the number of people.

Lets say you are doing a rock gig for 1000 people in a given area. Depending on the expectations there could easily be a 10dB or more difference in expected levels. What they are used to makes a BIG difference in the system needed.

I would really like to go back in time and listen to my gigs in the 80s and see both how they actually sounded and how loud the metal bands really were. Not as loud as today-but by how much?
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Ivan Beaver said:
EXACTLY the reason it is important to state the needed SPL (and the weighting and response time so it makes sense) MUCH more so than the number of people.

Lets say you are doing a rock gig for 1000 people in a given area. Depending on the expectations there could easily be a 10dB or more difference in expected levels. What they are used to makes a BIG difference in the system needed.

I would really like to go back in time and listen to my gigs in the 80s and see both how they actually sounded and how loud the metal bands really were. Not as loud as today-but by how much?
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Don't you remember that we played way louder in the 70s and 80s, every guitar player with self-respect had a stack on full blast, we just didn't have the kit to put the vocals on top :razz:

As for spl-requirements in different areas of the world, I have a feeling that "South Africa" might be conjuring up some images that might be prejudiced and ignorant, as in "this is what they are used to out in the townships". "Macedonia" might also be conjuring images that are far from accurate ;)~;-)~:wink:
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Per Søvik said:
As for spl-requirements in different areas of the world, I have a feeling that "South Africa" might be conjuring up some images that might be prejudiced and ignorant, as in "this is what they are used to out in the townships". "Macedonia" might also be conjuring images that are far from accurate ;)~;-)~:wink:
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Just wait until you hear what we think about "Norway"!
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Bennett Prescott said:
Just wait until you hear what we think about "Norway"!
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I'm sure the romantic version, (with fjords, "Hardingfele" (the traditional double-stringed fiddle), "Neverlur"- the traditional long horn made from bark off a birch and "Budeielokk"-the maids traditional cow-calling songs) hardly calls for much in terms of sound reinforcement spl. Then of course you have the contrast of Helge's account of the high school graduation year parties :lol:
 
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Re: Mini Line Array

About my perceived Norway image. You typically need about 1 million watts in big format line arrays mounted on like 6-12 buses to cover a 3-4K high school graduates. I wonder what the 20K people rider list has as a power requirements. A small portable nuclear plant perhaps. Am i close? :-)
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Per Søvik said:
I'm sure the romantic version, (with fjords, "Hardingfele" (the traditional double-stringed fiddle), "Neverlur"- the traditional long horn made from bark off a birch and "Budeielokk"-the maids traditional cow-calling songs) calls for much in terms of sound reinforcement spl. Then of course you have the contrast of Helge's account of the high school graduation year parties :lol:
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For an accurate and amusing take on Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc I read "Scandinavia and the World" comics. Scandinavia and the World - White Wonderland /nudge nudge, wink wink.
 
Re: Mini Line Array

Per Søvik said:
I have seen a couple of fairly potent Nexo rigs for sale in the $100K vicinity, so I'm sure it can be done, even for crowds exceeding 5000.
I guess it depends on how you pack the crowd, you can pack 20000 into half a football field if you really try :twisted:

I saw one for sale for considerably less than a hundred grand not to long ago. It was on craigslist. CL is like a career unto itself if you have the time and patience to stalk the for sale section religiously.





oh, I think we all have been guilty of that. :blush:
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I am guilty of doing something similar last month and I am so glad you guys talked some sense into me! Too bad we don't always listen to the voice of reason...
 
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