New presonus mixer

Re: New presonus mixer

My problem with this product and what looks like to be coming form Mackie is the lack of any real front panel controls. I'm not talking about a full display like the x32 rack but at least a 2 line LCD + controls for the network side of things would be a good idea. Having to rely on DHCP to get something working doesn't always work esp. if there is no dhcp server on the network.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

I saw only a few compelling features. The biggest for me was cascade for 64ch (ready but not included at initial release). The second may be 96K, but that is it. $2,000 for a 32X16 stage box is third.

Nothing else in there is new to me. I've been using Mixing Station and the iPad and to a limited screen size Edit to do everything he was doing on a touch surface of a Sony Tap 21 and HP Slate 21 Pro for 6 months. And on the iPad for longer.

And there has been a few other systems that use touch screen interfaces for mixing. SAC is one, Raven are two right off the top of my head, so it is not a "first" as he indicated.

Using a SL as a control surface to the RM sounds like a non starter.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Glenn Adams said:
I saw only a few compelling features. The biggest for me was cascade for 64ch (ready but not included at initial release). The second may be 96K, but that is it. $2,000 for a 32X16 stage box is third.

Nothing else in there is new to me. I've been using Mixing Station and the iPad and to a limited screen size Edit to do everything he was doing on a touch surface of a Sony Tap 21 and HP Slate 21 Pro for 6 months. And on the iPad for longer.

And there has been a few other systems that use touch screen interfaces for mixing. SAC is one, Raven are two right off the top of my head, so it is not a "first" as he indicated.

Using a SL as a control surface to the RM sounds like a non starter.
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Oh, I don't know Glenn. I thought the A/B channel processing feature was pretty neat. Also, the large easy to grab knee markers on the PEQ, compressor and gate were nice (Wish Behringer apps would have this too). Also the DB25's for direct outs (copied from their SL) is a nice touch.

I don't personally see any advantage to the 96KHz processing for live applications. Perhaps someone here with more knowledge than me can enlighten me.

I do agree that his assertion of being the "first" is incorrect. I also have been mixing for nearly a year now with an iPad and my X32 Rack.

I also noted that there was no mention of an off line editor :(
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Scott Bolt said:
Oh, I don't know Glenn. I thought the A/B channel processing feature was pretty neat. Also, the large easy to grab knee markers on the PEQ, compressor and gate were nice (Wish Behringer apps would have this too). Also the DB25's for direct outs (copied from their SL) is a nice touch.
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Their compressor knee only have two settings as far as I recall (soft/hard) so I like the x32 multiple settings better.

The db25's on the RM is copies of the outputs on the front and not direct out's, unlike the other studiolive consoles. I wonder if they are wired in parallell or have an extra buffer stage...
 
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Re: New presonus mixer

It seems like they are denying all knowledge that there ever was/is a x32 series and that they have invented a whole new product and no one has ever seen anything like it before ;)
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Christian Boche said:
Tables are turning. Now Behringer gear is copied :)
Just kidding...but this seems to be another X32Rack contender-->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUDzps61T0
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It obviously had to happen, with all of us Rack users singing the praises and basically saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, the competition realizing there indeed is a market for these. It was by no means a given, generally there has been a strong reluctance to adopt surface-less mixers, as indicated by the niche-level of acceptance for the SAC. Once Behringer proved there was a market, the flood-gates have opened.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

While the X32 deserves it's due credit, coincident with that is the long steady cost decline of the guts to make these digital platforms. It is no accident that recent platforms add digitally controlled mic preamp gains, There are now at least two different IC chip sets that do that available off the shelf. So no heavy lifting required by engineering to incorporate that feature.

Leaving relatively expensive components like moving faders, numerous digital encoders, and large display screens off the unit, help keep costs low enough to entice mass market sales.

The next hurdle is a standardized interface so these boxes could become generic, and even cheaper... or not..

JR
 
Re: New presonus mixer

You guys seem to forget that Presonus has been making a rack mount, computer controlled mixer since before any of you would even consider B products- the 1818VSL. It is has only eight mic inputs but uses the same software platform as the SL 16.2 along with ipad control. I used to use one for smaller gigs.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Chuck Simon said:
You guys seem to forget that Presonus has been making a rack mount, computer controlled mixer since before any of you would even consider B products- the 1818VSL. It is has only eight mic inputs but uses the same software platform as the SL 16.2 along with ipad control. I used to use one for smaller gigs.
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IMO the major accomplishment of the x32 is hitting a mass market price point for technology that has been around for years. I am repeating myself but there will probably be more older systems getting revisited in light of new and lower cost components. There may even be new players who held back before price points dropped enough to reveal a mass market for these.

JR
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Chuck Simon said:
You guys seem to forget that Presonus has been making a rack mount, computer controlled mixer since before any of you would even consider B products- the 1818VSL. It is has only eight mic inputs but uses the same software platform as the SL 16.2 along with ipad control. I used to use one for smaller gigs.
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Yes - but they were targeting the home studio market with it with mention of live recording use, but not much said about live sound reinforcement use.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Chuck Simon said:
You guys seem to forget that Presonus has been making a rack mount, computer controlled mixer since before any of you would even consider B products- the 1818VSL. It is has only eight mic inputs but uses the same software platform as the SL 16.2 along with ipad control. I used to use one for smaller gigs.
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If my memory serves me the 1818vsl is only a soundcard with multiple i/o. All processing is made in the computer using the vsl software so I wouldn't go as far as to call it computer controlled mixer but rather a nice soundcard with some cool software.

I think that I've read that you can't route the input to the output inside the device, but you have to go via the vsl software/computer and this adds a couple of mS latency to your signal.

There is no real difference compared to some moto 896 or similar ancient device from a hardware perspective. The moto 896 actually works as standalone while the 1818vsl doesn't.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

John Roberts said:
There are now at least two different IC chip sets that do that available off the shelf. So no heavy lifting required by engineering to incorporate that feature.
The next hurdle is a standardized interface so these boxes could become generic, and even cheaper... or not..
Click to expand...

But behringer doesn't use these chip sets...

Don't expect a standardized interface ever to be honest, they even can't agree on a digital multisnake protocol...
For now the one that's gaining most sales/share will survive probably.
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Scott Bolt said:
I don't personally see any advantage to the 96KHz processing for live applications. Perhaps someone here with more knowledge than me can enlighten me.
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You're right. The one thing about 96K is the possibility of lower latency, however, that's about it. There are loads of examples that prove that most people (even those in the audio industry) can't reliably distinguish the difference between 320Mbps MP3 or 256 AAC versus uncompressed 192K, let alone between 48 and 96.

There are in theory benefits to these higher rates (if you have that capability already there is no reason not to use it), however, in the grand scheme of things, just about EVERYTHING else should matter more to you because it will make a much bigger difference than 96K vs 48K, despite what marketing departments will try to tell you.

Moving off axis by even just 1 degree on a microphone makes more audible difference if that says anything. The talent, the source, the acoustic environment, the speakers and their deployment, and many other things such as this are where significant improvements are possible.

I find myself posting about this a lot.... so many people are misled into spending money where it doesn't really make much difference - 96K, boutique preamps, converters, master clocks, etc, etc.

Spend wisely - those types of things are ones you should wait to spend on until you've addressed ALL of the other areas of greater importance I've mentioned first, regardless of whether we are talking live or studio (I do a lot of both)
 
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Re: New presonus mixer

Shane Presley said:
Looks like a good effort put forth there... Still waiting for this product....42" iPad style touch screen, weatherized that can have "console skins" loaded on it so the op can use whatever "console look" he wants to use... Midas/Yamaha/ digico/.. So that all the controls are familiar to him/ her. And then same thing here... Hardware and pres are on stage in the snake head...
Bring me that!
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Keep an eye on this. you will have your wish
http://audiomixingplatform.com/
 
Re: New presonus mixer

Robert Lofgren said:
Their compressor knee only have two settings as far as I recall (soft/hard) so I like the x32 multiple settings better.

The db25's on the RM is copies of the outputs on the front and not direct out's, unlike the other studiolive consoles. I wonder if they are wired in parallell or have an extra buffer stage...
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No doubt that the X32 compressor is more flexible. I was referring more to those big knee circles they have for touching and dragging around the point. I thought that was a nice touch (pun intended ;) ).

Thanks for the correction on the DB25's. I just assumed they would duplicate what they had in the StudioLive (which I thought was a pretty useful feature).
 
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