No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

I can't agree more about bracing, on some previous builds i have gone back in and added more bracing after the fact, and wow what a difference it makes. I have braced the sides of this sub and am probably going to add a bit more before I load them up.

Paint started to happen yesterday. I sprayed all of the subs with a black primer, and started with the bed liner today. I am once again using a product called U-pol Raptor, I have had great results with it on some past builds.

Here are a few shots
IMG_0609.JPGIMG_0610.JPG
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Luke Robinson said:
I can't agree more about bracing, on some previous builds i have gone back in and added more bracing after the fact, and wow what a difference it makes. I have braced the sides of this sub and am probably going to add a bit more before I load them up.

Paint started to happen yesterday. I sprayed all of the subs with a black primer, and started with the bed liner today. I am once again using a product called U-pol Raptor, I have had great results with it on some past builds.

Here are a few shots
View attachment 11581View attachment 11582
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I remember my "eye opening experience" with bracing.

Back in the mid/late 80s I had a regular gig every Sat night doing metal at a venue (outside when the weather was nice-inside rain and winter).

I built my first "one boxes" that had a pair of 15" , a commumity M80 12" loaded horn (it was BIG), JBL2445 on 2380 horn and a 2405 tweeter.

They were 6' tall.

I knew how they performed. So one week I decided to add some bracing to the cabinets. At the next gig it was like I had more than twice the low end :) I was AMAZED at how much it tightened up the low end and made it louder.

All of the bands and many audience members commented on it.

I was HOOKED on bracing.

Of course back in those days we did not have the "free trade of information" that the internet provides these days.

I often wonder how things in my life would be different if we had the internet "back int he day".
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Luke Robinson said:
Finished!!!!!

(well almost, They still need grills)

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I think a good double 18 reflex enclosure like this is such a useful box for so applications. It may not be as loud as some of the horns or band-pass enclosures, but a good state of the art double 18 using some of the latest high powered drivers is hard to beat as a compromise - flexibility, size, truck pack, output, band width and sound quality.

I did exactly the same as you and build my own double 18 subs. I have never had any rider acceptance problems with my design when used in combination with a name brand quality mid-hi.

I’m surprized that there have not been more DIY double 18 projects like this - here or on the LAB’s subwoofer page.

I suspect with a little modification it would also be suitable for a range of drivers such as:

· B&C - 18SW115
· B&C - SW100
· Eighteen Sound - 18TLW3000
· Eighteen Sound – 18NLW9000
· Faital Pro - 18XL1600
· Faital Pro - 18HW1070

Anyway … I hope you are able to post some more details about its performance, construction and specifications.

Good luck with your new boxes.:)~:-)~:smile:
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Hey Luke,

How do you think your sub would work with Peter's new Mid/high? If they are a good fit, how about we bring the designs together into a system? I posted in the Mid/High thread that most of these DIY projects, while being well done by themselves could be so much more if they were integrated into a full system, amps, processing, stacking features etc. It seems like we have the pieces here for such a system.

Cheers,
Simon
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Simon Coffin said:
Hey Luke,

How do you think your sub would work with Peter's new Mid/high? If they are a good fit, how about we bring the designs together into a system? I posted in the Mid/High thread that most of these DIY projects, while being well done by themselves could be so much more if they were integrated into a full system, amps, processing, stacking features etc. It seems like we have the pieces here for such a system.

Cheers,
Simon
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Hi Simon,

I may be interested in this combo as well. Since we and Luke are pretty close by, we might be able to collaborate and/or cross rent in the future.

Jeff
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Jeff, you are welcome to come and check them out if you'd like to hear them.

I am intrigued by Peter's Design, but for the moment I am not in the market for another top box. If he were not half way around the world I'd love to check it out though. Is anyone closer by considering a build?

Luke
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

I got bored this week and started working on my own "no compromises" front loaded double 18. I've got some d&b B2's, but the price is just too much to justify the number of boxes I need. So, I got to work and finished the first prototype today. The raw response came out pretty nice- -6 @ 35hz completely unprocessed, and gobs of output. Guess I'll be spending some time in my shop making more sawdust soon! :)



Evan
 

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Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Evan Kirkendall said:
I got bored this week and started working on my own "no compromises" front loaded double 18. I've got some d&b B2's, but the price is just too much to justify the number of boxes I need. So, I got to work and finished the first prototype today. The raw response came out pretty nice- -6 @ 35hz completely unprocessed, and gobs of output. Guess I'll be spending some time in my shop making more sawdust soon! :)



Evan
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The response looks great, tell us more ... driver, port design, pictures etc. :)~:-)~:smile:
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Jeffrey Knorr said:
Hi Simon,

I may be interested in this combo as well. Since we and Luke are pretty close by, we might be able to collaborate and/or cross rent in the future.

Jeff
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Hey Jeff, Luke,

This was my thought exactly. If all three of us have some of these cabinets we could each reduce our own stock slightly, easily cross rent and even go after larger/more shows then we would typically do. Luke has got a jump start on us with the subs, but I'm looking at building a pair of the tops in the near future. As soon as Peter can publish the plans I can start ordering and cutting plywood. I'd probably build them 2-way with the passive crossover on the highs.

Do either of you know of a CNC shop in the central PA area? I would be really interested in doing a trap version of the cabinet but the angles would be hard to get accurate on the average DIY table saw. I'm seriously obsessive about accurate woodworking. Panel gaps and visible joints drive me batty.

Ciao
Simon
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

DIY is strong on SF lately, I've been toying around with this design for a while now.

Dual18TBW100BR.JPG

45"x24"x30" tuned to 35Hz for a pair of 18TBW100. I also drew up a box for a pair of 21SW152 but the baffle had to be clam-shell (think SB2001) in order to fit the drivers within the desired box size and the little bit of extra performance didn't look like it was worth it.
 
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Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Similar to the 18 Sound box. Nice design.

The 18TBW100 is the best value for performance 18" that I can find. The klippel measurements in voicecoil are better than every other brand except BMS. You can buy almost two B&C's for the price of a BMS.
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Spenser Hamilton said:
45"x24"x30" tuned to 35Hz for a pair of 18TBW100. I also drew up a box for a pair of 21SW152 but the baffle had to be clam-shell (think SB2001) in order to fit the drivers within the desired box size and the little bit of extra performance didn't look like it was worth it.
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Hey Spenser,

Just curious what you consider the size of the performance difference between the 18TBW100 and the 21SW152? The 18TBW100 is a great ceramic driver, but the 21SW152 should be roughly as capable as two of them given its increased displacement!
 
Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Perhaps I modelled them wrong. The dual 21 modelled a bit more output but with a higher cutoff (due to trying to cram the two drivers in a box the same size as the dual 18).

I'm sure that without the box size constraint the 21SW152 could dig a few Hz deeper than the 18TBW100.

I'd love to be schooled and told that I entered some parameters wrong, but the expense of the larger drivers, plus the added time and expense of a more complicated baffle arrangement has me discouraged.


Sent from my iPhone

Edit: Found the sketchup file I had started for the Dual 21, can't find any of the HornResp or Excel files to go along with it though :( Lots of box volume ate up by the baffle design, again due to the size constraints that I had decided on.
 

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Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Try something like this - its basically what B&C recommend for the 21SW152.

The port design is OK, it reinforces the box but its not fantastic in terms of fluid dynamics.
 

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Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Peter Morris said:
Try something like this - its basically what B&C recommend for the 21SW152.

The port design is OK, it reinforces the box but its not fantastic in terms of fluid dynamics.
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Looks good, similar to what a company near here has built, loaded with RCF driver if I recall.
 

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Re: No compromises front loaded double 18” cab

Peter Morris said:
Try something like this - its basically what B&C recommend for the 21SW152.

The port design is OK, it reinforces the box but its not fantastic in terms of fluid dynamics.
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Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but you seem to have increased the port area quite a lot without any corresponding increase in length?
I'm sure there will be some extra effective length from having the ports built in along the box walls; will that be enough to keep the tuning the same do you think? If so, do you have any firm way of calculating that please? The closest I've seen seems to be more of a rough rule of thumb but I've yet to see anything more concrete. I'm not even sure how easily that rule of thumb could translate to triangular ports.

Many thanks,
David.
 
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