Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

<sigh> Wanted a pair of cheap SDC mics. Bought a pair of Behringer C-4s. It isn't possible to actually get an XLR plug into these things without extreme violence sufficient to void the warranty.

Honestly... Everything I see tells me Behringer are still making stuff that isn't worth the relatively low price they're charging for it.

I have some C4's that I use for harsh conditions type gigs. Never had an issue like you describe. I suspect your cables are at fault - I use Neutrik connectors without issue.

For the record, I have not bought a ton of Behringer gear in my lifetime, but NONE of the stuff I have bought personally has ever failed. I say this right now having a couple thousand $ worth of dead DI's and microphones from other "pro" companies sitting on my desk. IMHO if a low priced Behringer piece fits the budget and is appropriate for the situation, it is no more likely to fail than any other similarly competitive product.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I won't resort to sarcasm ;) yep I only use Neutrik connectors and, though it's your choice to write me off as an idiot, after 20 years working with audio gear, including 9 years for the BBC, I may not know everything but I know how to plug stuff in :)

Actually had to break out a small file to make the slot bigger before we could get a plug into either of these mics. Believe me, I don't want to hate Behringer gear and constantly criticise it, otherwise I wouldn't keep buying bits, but it seems every time I do there's a problem. If folk really want a video, I can shoot you one :)
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I won't resort to sarcasm ;) yep I only use Neutrik connectors and, though it's your choice to write me off as an idiot, after 20 years working with audio gear, including 9 years for the BBC, I may not know everything but I know how to plug stuff in :)

Actually had to break out a small file to make the slot bigger before we could get a plug into either of these mics. Believe me, I don't want to hate Behringer gear and constantly criticise it, otherwise I wouldn't keep buying bits, but it seems every time I do there's a problem. If folk really want a video, I can shoot you one :)

Shoot a vidiot? Can I be there? Oh... wait... a video of the connector. I'll be there to witness if we can do it during a Jools Holland programme. :)
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

One problem with being a big-arse company like Behringer, Peavey, and Carvin is that you get judged by ALL your products. Someone like A&H only gets judged by their mixers since that's all they make. If I was a big company I'd split it up into brand names like many do. Also IME people just don't treat their B,P, and C gear as well as their expensive stuff and then complain it isn't as durable. Heck, I even have a hard case for my little two channel Behringer mixer - most folks just toss their's into the bottom of a bag or case full of other crap.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I think that's a fair point. You do get what you pay for, usually, and it isn't reasonable to compare budget gear to top end, or expect it to last. There's a reason a mixwiz costs more than a zed series. Trouble with the B gear I've had recently is it simply didn't work out of the box. Ada8000s wouldn't sync to anything, mics with a badly cast body I have to file down... The mics don't have to sound good, have low noise, survive rough handling or last years. But they do need to accept a standard xlr plug.
I have always felt behringer's quality control lets them down.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I won't resort to sarcasm ;) yep I only use Neutrik connectors and, though it's your choice to write me off as an idiot, after 20 years working with audio gear, including 9 years for the BBC, I may not know everything but I know how to plug stuff in :)

Actually had to break out a small file to make the slot bigger before we could get a plug into either of these mics. Believe me, I don't want to hate Behringer gear and constantly criticise it, otherwise I wouldn't keep buying bits, but it seems every time I do there's a problem. If folk really want a video, I can shoot you one :)
No, I obviously assume that you know how to plug in the right end of a microphone lead, but as you must surely be aware after 20 years working with audio gear, plugs have a tendency to fit until someone damages them by doing something they shouldn't. Owning quite a few Behringer mikes, mostly C1 and 8500, I have never noticed any difference in connection quality between them and AKG, Shure, Sennheiser, except that they are in fact quite snug compared to some of the others, which I appreciate. Resorting to violence, as you referred had me thinking of trying to bang it in with a hammer or something. I've never heard of anyone having to file the key slot before, sounds like a really bad batch that maybe wasn't caught before the tooling failed, ..............or if it had been just one microphone, someone stepping on it or dropping it to make it oval without cracking it, or some plugs that are extraordinarily fat with huge or damaged keys.
I get your point about quality control, but I doubt if AKG or Shure tests their sockets on a regular basis, I believe that quality control should focus on the areas that really matter, like bond quality, internal connection quality, solder joints etc
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I have been watching this space and usually don't post. But Mr Seymour's posts get me going.
He posted 7 times and they are all about bashing behringer.

My advice: buy something else and get a life.

Unless you work for the competition.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I have been watching this space and usually don't post. But Mr Seymour's posts get me going.
He posted 7 times and they are all about bashing behringer.

My advice: buy something else and get a life.

Unless you work for the competition.

Ok.. Final post. I'm sorry you've found my post unhelpful. You know what I'm genuinely not about bashing Behringer. But the CEO came on here and launched his charm offensive, claiming the company is all about great value and customer service. Senior people from the music group then joined in. The reason is simply because Behringer has a terrible reputation and I think they're serious about wanting to turn that around, especially after the high profile brand acquisitions.

I'll happily give companies second third and fourth chances to get stuff right. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment.

Bottom line is i posted here because what Uli's charm offensive was claiming simply wasn't backed by my experience of recently purchased products that didn't work and clearly hadn't seen satisfactory quality control.

but I don't wish to be annoying or unhelpful so I'm done.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

I understand your point, i have been avoiding behringer stuff for years, but i always acepted it as a brand aimed to low budget or amateur users.
I am part of that market as im low budget and an amateur in audio, i just choosed products from behringer competitors trying to find better solutions for my needs.
Lately i purchased some good stuff at incredibly low price from behringer and im just happy with them as they perfectly do what i needed them to do.
Behringer is large company and obviously have large amount of resources and is starting to rise the quality of his products without rising the price accordingly, that is what i believe and this is why i will buy an x32. Simply there is no competitor in this branch of market who offer the same level of quality, functionality and usability.
One last thing: i work for a little audio service that bought a cool digital mixer priced multiple times the price of an x32. It took 2 years of firmware updating to make it work properly, dsp core had to be replaced, madi-usb card was not working properly and caused a big waste of time and money. And it was not cheap stuff that u can easily replace with stuff from another brand!
Daniele
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Ok.. Final post. I'm sorry you've found my post unhelpful. You know what I'm genuinely not about bashing Behringer. But the CEO came on here and launched his charm offensive, claiming the company is all about great value and customer service. Senior people from the music group then joined in. The reason is simply because Behringer has a terrible reputation and I think they're serious about wanting to turn that around, especially after the high profile brand acquisitions.

I'll happily give companies second third and fourth chances to get stuff right. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment.

Bottom line is i posted here because what Uli's charm offensive was claiming simply wasn't backed by my experience of recently purchased products that didn't work and clearly hadn't seen satisfactory quality control.

but I don't wish to be annoying or unhelpful so I'm done.

Personally I have no problem with you posting personal experience. If your experience runs counter to the glossy picture painted by Uli's charm school then that is a reality that should be considered.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Dear all,

Allow me to comment.

First of all let me be perfectly clear; we do not mind criticism at all and in fact appreciate anything that allows us to improve our Company. This forum and others have helped us tremendously to get valuable feedback.

We do listen carefully and take comments seriously. For example we addressed the ADA8000 issues that were reported and introduced a much improved version called ADA8200; we also reduced the fan noise of the iNuke amplifiers, just to mention a few.
And then there is the massive X32 thread here, which has just exceeded 860,000 views. It has allowed us to do incredible market research as well as listen to people's wish list for new features, many of which are planned to be incorporated in the 2.0 firmware.

Please bear in mind that we have close to 700 active products and some of them have been designed over ten years ago. While these legacy products still sell well and are perfectly reliable, we are in the process of evaluating them one by one whether there is a need for a redesign or we rather focus our efforts in designing a successor model.

One of our major initiatives is to replace all linear power supplies with auto-range switch-mode versions, incorporate Neutrik/Rean connectors in most of our products and validate all feedback from the forums and our Care centers.

As mentioned earlier, we invested over US$ 20 million in state-of-the-art equipment such as high-precision SMT machines, X-ray equipment and automated optical inspection systems to mention a few.
We are also very proud of the many MIDAS/KLARK TEKNIK engineers who are based in our China factory and run major quality assurance programs.

We are not perfect and will never be, but we are committed to continuously improve every aspect of our Company. These initiatives have already resulted in great quality improvements and in a 3-Year Warranty Program for all our products.
This demonstrates our commitment to quality and that we stand behind our customers.

I like to take the opportunity to thank our staff in particular Joe Sanborn and his Customer Support team who participate here and go out of their way to help our customers. This team even works on weekends and at times takes phone calls at night when there is an urgent matter.

Again we appreciate criticism as that's what we are here for. Whether you prefer to shout and complain publicly or choose a more courteous way is a matter of personal style. The net effect is the same and we are grateful for any comments and suggestions.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

We do listen carefully and take comments seriously. For example we addressed the ADA8000 issues that were reported and introduced a much improved version ADA8200 and we reduced the fan noise on the iNuke amplifiers just to mention a few.
Uli,

What was the fan noise SPL before and after it was reduced?
What was the air flow rate before and after it was reduced?

Art
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Hi Uli,
Just wondered if there was any more information regarding the upcoming Madi option card for the X32 family?
Details of connections and routing capabilities would be great .
Also any news on the upgrade to the DN9650 in order to make it work at 48K?
Thanks in advance

Adam
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Studio users are extremely important to us and we have been carefully watching this space.

Hello Uli,

Greetings from Finland. I am more of a studio person myself, even tho I do fair amount of live audio too. Since people have already addressed reliability of older products etc several times, I won't delve in to that path and try to ask something new for a change. I have four questions:

1) Also one thing that has bothered me several times with Behringer products is just the overall design and material/color choice of many older generation Behringer gear. The main problem is that the material choices made them look REALLY cheap, in a bad way. You might think that it doesn't matter, but it really doesn't help when you are geared towards making cheaper alternative products. For example the dark blue aesthetics with MX series mixers was alright, but EuroRack/8000/T195X series gear was HIDEOUS with that brushed metal and silver-glitter nailpolish metal look and the thought "what were they thinking" has crossed my mind several times. The Xenyx series went back to alright with the dark matte gray, and when I saw the new Eurocom line, they looked really sexy. Like better than most stuff I've seen even from competitors. And for example even tho the Behringer DSP110 looked alright, the updated look of FBQ100 was so much more aesthetically pleasing (haven't seen them in nature, but at least the pictures in the website do look more aesthetically pleasing). Also the iNuke series looks nice. I am now asking are you thinking of re-releasing some of the older products with similar, more updated looks? I wouldn't mind black microphones for example...

2) Can you do something about the future versions of already released products, mainly to improve signal-to-noise ratio in many products, like EuroRack mixers and in the DI-20 di-box? If it helps in anyway, I bought my DI20 about 6 years ago, but it was really noisy from day 1 (same thing with for example my HA400 headphone amp) and since all other DI20's have had the same problem (tried several dozen of them), I stopped recommending them to anyone and just said to buy DI100 instead if they wanted a cheap alternative. It's otherwise nice and handy 2CH DI, but the noisiness of the unit is what keeps me from using it as anything more than a backup of a backup.

3) Where should I get my Behringer products in Finland? I noticed that most shops don't have any in stock, and after SounData went bankrupt in 2010 and after Into Luthmann took over the distribution a few years earlier (FYI: they are a Swedish company, and don't have a shop in Finland) the availability of Behringer gear for consumer users went pretty much zero in Finland (I haven't checked recently what the situation is, but this was the situation at least 2 years ago), so my only options were pretty much ordering stuff from Thomann, but their variety in Behringer gear is not very good. For example they only have 5 Bugera heads at stock (V55HD, 1990, 6260, 333 and 333XL) and I know I saw Trirec, T1 and T47 there some time ago, but they are not there anymore, even tho they were released only 2-3 years ago, right?

4) I have several concepts and concept ideas for different products that for example Behringer might be interested in, is there someone I could possibly contact these about? If you wish to contact me about this via email instead, my email address is [email protected]
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Now that the X32-Rack should be hitting the shores, I wonder where Starin, the U.S. distributor, will ship the first units. Will it be the big box music stores, the major on-line retails or the more local and professional brick and mortar dealers? It could make a big statement about which market Behringer is going after or wants to be perceived as going after. If they shipped first to the outlets that usually deal in high end pro gear it would show high aspirations. If they flood GC or xxx.com it could be seen as another cheap product unworthy of professional use and create an up hill climb for acceptance.

I hope they choose to present the product as worthy of professional use, if only because it is one of those stores where I have had my order since May. It would be a drag to have to wait longer because I buy from a local company who's customer support and advice I've trusted for years.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Now that the X32-Rack should be hitting the shores, I wonder where Starin, the U.S. distributor, will ship the first units. Will it be the big box music stores, the major on-line retails or the more local and professional brick and mortar dealers? It could make a big statement about which market Behringer is going after or wants to be perceived as going after. If they shipped first to the outlets that usually deal in high end pro gear it would show high aspirations. If they flood GC or xxx.com it could be seen as another cheap product unworthy of professional use and create an up hill climb for acceptance.

I hope they choose to present the product as worthy of professional use, if only because it is one of those stores where I have had my order since May. It would be a drag to have to wait longer because I buy from a local company who's customer support and advice I've trusted for years.

Dear Mark,

Since we do not control distribution in the US, we don't dictate who is allocated any product. Instead we rely on Starin and their network of independent sales reps to manage individual dealer territories. I suspect that dealers who have already placed orders will be among the first to receive stock, but again, I can't confirm that.

What's really interesting about your question though is the issue of where to buy; this or any other product for that matter. For me, personally, the more technical or mission-critical the product, the more likely I am going to buy it where real people will stand behind it. And in that sense, the X32 family has really changed the game by attracting many integrators, pro-audio retailers and others who can and do offer a higher level of service and support.

BTW, what's your intended application?

Best,

Costa
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Thank you for the response.
I'm a traveling musician. We'll be using it to mix and record live shows. Rather small fish really. Just another member of one of your target markets; professional touring musicians who pay their own bills and know how much their spending. 8)
I understand that Starin is in control, but I think my point remains. I was at my favorite dealer today and they had everything in stock from a Midas Pro1 to the Eurorack UB502 with plenty of Yamaha, Roland, Mackie, A&H etc etc etc in between. Will a dealer like this get preference over the dot coms and warehouse stores? It's product positioning at it's most basic. I'm sure Behringer is leveraging pressure on the distribution chain to properly stage the product to professionals early in it's roll-out.
At least I would hope so... It's much better to put it in professional hands first.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Uli,
Just wondered if there was any more information regarding the upcoming Madi option card for the X32 family?
Details of connections and routing capabilities would be great .
Also any news on the upgrade to the DN9650 in order to make it work at 48K?
Thanks in advance

Adam

Dear Adam,

we are currently in the final testing stage of the X32 Dante, Madi and ADAT expansion cards for the upcoming production and shipment later this year.

We are also working on a 32-channel Direct-to-HD recording card for release early next year. More expansion cards are planned and will be announced at a later stage.

Next month, we will also be releasing an update to the KLARK TEKNIK DN9650 to operate with the X32 series. This will allow you to connect the X32 via AES50 to the DN9650 as a bridge to Madi, Dante, A-Net, CobraNet, Digigram Ethersound, and give the X32 external word clock sync. You can use any of these protocols via DN9650 expansion cards AND at the same time the X32's card slot for recording 32x32 to your DAW or as 32 inserts with Waves MultiRack or other low latency “Live Host” applications.

The X32 will also be compatible with the new flexible and affordable line of MIDAS stage boxes announced at WFX this week. They all feature MIDAS XL4 mic preamps and can be stacked in any configuration needed via AES50; all models are $1499 US MAP.
There will be four models, which are DL151 (24 in), DL152 (24 out), DL153 (16 in x 8 out), and DL154 (16 out x 8 in).

As mentioned earlier, the X32 is the heart of a large and continuously growing eco-system; at Namm 2014 we will be showing very exciting new members of the X32 family.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A Question and suggestion Re ,X32

Hello Uli,

Greetings from Finland. I am more of a studio person myself, even tho I do fair amount of live audio too. Since people have already addressed reliability of older products etc several times, I won't delve in to that path and try to ask something new for a change. I have four questions:

1) Also one thing that has bothered me several times with Behringer products is just the overall design and material/color choice of many older generation Behringer gear. The main problem is that the material choices made them look REALLY cheap, in a bad way. You might think that it doesn't matter, but it really doesn't help when you are geared towards making cheaper alternative products. For example the dark blue aesthetics with MX series mixers was alright, but EuroRack/8000/T195X series gear was HIDEOUS with that brushed metal and silver-glitter nailpolish metal look and the thought "what were they thinking" has crossed my mind several times. The Xenyx series went back to alright with the dark matte gray, and when I saw the new Eurocom line, they looked really sexy. Like better than most stuff I've seen even from competitors. And for example even tho the Behringer DSP110 looked alright, the updated look of FBQ100 was so much more aesthetically pleasing (haven't seen them in nature, but at least the pictures in the website do look more aesthetically pleasing). Also the iNuke series looks nice. I am now asking are you thinking of re-releasing some of the older products with similar, more updated looks? I wouldn't mind black microphones for example...

2) Can you do something about the future versions of already released products, mainly to improve signal-to-noise ratio in many products, like EuroRack mixers and in the DI-20 di-box? If it helps in anyway, I bought my DI20 about 6 years ago, but it was really noisy from day 1 (same thing with for example my HA400 headphone amp) and since all other DI20's have had the same problem (tried several dozen of them), I stopped recommending them to anyone and just said to buy DI100 instead if they wanted a cheap alternative. It's otherwise nice and handy 2CH DI, but the noisiness of the unit is what keeps me from using it as anything more than a backup of a backup.

3) Where should I get my Behringer products in Finland? I noticed that most shops don't have any in stock, and after SounData went bankrupt in 2010 and after Into Luthmann took over the distribution a few years earlier (FYI: they are a Swedish company, and don't have a shop in Finland) the availability of Behringer gear for consumer users went pretty much zero in Finland (I haven't checked recently what the situation is, but this was the situation at least 2 years ago), so my only options were pretty much ordering stuff from Thomann, but their variety in Behringer gear is not very good. For example they only have 5 Bugera heads at stock (V55HD, 1990, 6260, 333 and 333XL) and I know I saw Trirec, T1 and T47 there some time ago, but they are not there anymore, even tho they were released only 2-3 years ago, right?

4) I have several concepts and concept ideas for different products that for example Behringer might be interested in, is there someone I could possibly contact these about? If you wish to contact me about this via email instead, my email address is [email protected]


Dear Annsi,

My name is Par Olsson and I am the COO/General Manager of Luthman SMTTS (INTO Luthman).
I am suprised about your comment that you find it difficult to find dealers in Finland selleing the Behringer products as sales there is going through the roof.
Below you will find a list of current re-sellers in Finland that should be able to help you:

[TABLE="width: 362"]
[TR]
[TD]St. Paul's Sound Oy[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Top Sound Ky[/TD]
[TD]Seinäjoki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DJ Pro SIA[/TD]
[TD]Daugavpils[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EW Sound & Light OU[/TD]
[TD]Tallinn[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Savonlinnan Soitinkulma Oy[/TD]
[TD]Savonlinna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Teleme Oy[/TD]
[TD]Lappeenranta[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Powerset Oy[/TD]
[TD]Tampere[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kouvolan Musiikki Oy[/TD]
[TD]Kouvola[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Markun Musiikki Ky[/TD]
[TD]Seinäjoki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Soitin Laine Oy[/TD]
[TD]Turku[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kokkolan laitevälitys Oy[/TD]
[TD]Kokkola[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maxisat Networks Oy[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sähkötaso esitystekniikka Oy[/TD]
[TD]Tampere[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DLX Deluxe Music Shops Oy/Helsinki[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MKS media T:mi[/TD]
[TD]Loimaa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stanford Music[/TD]
[TD]Tallinn[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aurinkomusiikki Oy[/TD]
[TD]Tampere[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pihlajamaan Musiikki Oy[/TD]
[TD]Pori[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pori Sound City Oy[/TD]
[TD]Pori[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Soundstore Finland Oy[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Musacorner Oy[/TD]
[TD]Tampere[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Musiikki Kullas Oy[/TD]
[TD]Oulu[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Verkkokauppa.com Oy[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Raahen Musiikki T:mi[/TD]
[TD]Raahe[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Starlike Oy[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stroko Oy/Piano Jylhä[/TD]
[TD]Muurame[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Discoland Oy[/TD]
[TD]Helsinki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]F-Musiikki Oy Turku[/TD]
[TD]Turku[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pietarsaaren Musiikki Ky[/TD]
[TD]Pietarsaari[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ålands Music Shop[/TD]
[TD]Mariehamn[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Suomen esityspalvelu Ky[/TD]
[TD]Salo[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

If you still find it difficult sourcing Behringer products please feel free to contact me at any time: [email protected]

Best Regards

Par Olsson