X16 Preview
- Thread starter Uli Behringer
- Start date
Re: X16 Preview
Maybe it's time for the retirement home for me... but I remember when singers were expected to sing in time and on pitch as the absolute minimum qualification (presuming that singing out of time or flat/sharp was not an "artistic effect").
No wonder people think that we "play" music. It's not hard, anyone can be a singer with auto tune! We can correct your rhythm problem in the audio edits! It stinks.
Maybe it's time for the retirement home for me... but I remember when singers were expected to sing in time and on pitch as the absolute minimum qualification (presuming that singing out of time or flat/sharp was not an "artistic effect").
No wonder people think that we "play" music. It's not hard, anyone can be a singer with auto tune! We can correct your rhythm problem in the audio edits! It stinks.
Re: X16 Preview
There definitely seems to be two basic camps; those who want live performances to sound just like the studio versions and those who want live performances to be live and thus not always the same as the studio version. To each their own but personally, if I want to hear the studio recording I can stay home and listen to it with a full fridge and clean, functional bathroom nearby.
Indirectly relevant, I was recently at a venue that incorporates both a studio space and a live performance space. When it was built one of the goals was for the two to be integrated to allow recording and editing audio and video of live performances in the studio space but while there has turned out to be great interest in the studio space and good use of the performance space, there has apparently been limited interest in high quality recordings of live performances to the point that the related video production capability has been ripped out and replaced with an additional audio edit suite.
So you autotune the vocalists. Then you have the inverse where they don't play well because they are focusing on singing, so you use sampled backing tracks for their instruments. And along the way what happens to the 'live' performance.
There definitely seems to be two basic camps; those who want live performances to sound just like the studio versions and those who want live performances to be live and thus not always the same as the studio version. To each their own but personally, if I want to hear the studio recording I can stay home and listen to it with a full fridge and clean, functional bathroom nearby.
Indirectly relevant, I was recently at a venue that incorporates both a studio space and a live performance space. When it was built one of the goals was for the two to be integrated to allow recording and editing audio and video of live performances in the studio space but while there has turned out to be great interest in the studio space and good use of the performance space, there has apparently been limited interest in high quality recordings of live performances to the point that the related video production capability has been ripped out and replaced with an additional audio edit suite.
Re: X16 Preview
What tools are allowed and which tools should never be seen? We add reverb and stuff a lot of the not to make the voice sound as if it is in a particular room, but to get a fuller sound. We eq out that annoying sharpness or nasality or what have you, we process drums beyond recognition etc. Why do bassplayers have frets on their instruments, that must surely be cheating? Sometimes, a bit of autotune to make vocal harmonies sit better can be in order, and sometimes covering a chart song might mean that you absolutely need it.
What tools are allowed and which tools should never be seen? We add reverb and stuff a lot of the not to make the voice sound as if it is in a particular room, but to get a fuller sound. We eq out that annoying sharpness or nasality or what have you, we process drums beyond recognition etc. Why do bassplayers have frets on their instruments, that must surely be cheating? Sometimes, a bit of autotune to make vocal harmonies sit better can be in order, and sometimes covering a chart song might mean that you absolutely need it.
Re: X16 Preview
I'll presume this is in reply to my post...
Studio stories are replete with anecdotes about fixing a drummer's timing problem or using the drum tracks to trigger drum samples; or other aspects of "studio magic."
My point is that if anyone can be seen/heard as artistically proficient when in fact they are not takes us further down the road begun when video killed the radio star... or the careers of artists that didn't previously rely on having a "look" to merchandise. MTV did to musicians what the "talkies" did to silent film stars... it ended their careers. Christopher Cross is one example of a gifted songwriter and singer who had his career decline into almost nothing because he wasn't an anorexic with a taste for bizarre hair and wardrobe.
We can argue (and mostly correctly) that the public was ready for musical acts manufactured like the persona of a Hollywood movie star.... shifting tastes, etc. Video allowed the public to be even vacuous and shallow. P.T. Barnum is reported to have said "nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." He was right.
Per, I don't give a fuck what people use... but I'm free to lament about the old days when singers could sing and players had a functional, artistic command of their instruments. Hell, I remember concerts before moving lights or video... and we still had sold out arenas and stadiums.
/nostalgia
I'll presume this is in reply to my post...
Studio stories are replete with anecdotes about fixing a drummer's timing problem or using the drum tracks to trigger drum samples; or other aspects of "studio magic."
My point is that if anyone can be seen/heard as artistically proficient when in fact they are not takes us further down the road begun when video killed the radio star... or the careers of artists that didn't previously rely on having a "look" to merchandise. MTV did to musicians what the "talkies" did to silent film stars... it ended their careers. Christopher Cross is one example of a gifted songwriter and singer who had his career decline into almost nothing because he wasn't an anorexic with a taste for bizarre hair and wardrobe.
We can argue (and mostly correctly) that the public was ready for musical acts manufactured like the persona of a Hollywood movie star.... shifting tastes, etc. Video allowed the public to be even vacuous and shallow. P.T. Barnum is reported to have said "nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." He was right.
Per, I don't give a fuck what people use... but I'm free to lament about the old days when singers could sing and players had a functional, artistic command of their instruments. Hell, I remember concerts before moving lights or video... and we still had sold out arenas and stadiums.
/nostalgia
Last edited:
Re: X16 Preview
Not specific, I didn't quote because it was more of a general reply.
As soundguy, rigger, lights guy I definitely prefer the singer/songwriter act with two lines for the guitar, one vocal mike, maybe a headset, a single monitor and a single spotlight. However, I also appreciate the big, impressive productions with technology gone wild and taken to the limit, including any tools eployed to make that production as impressiveand mind boggling as possible. There is room for both.
Re: X16 Preview
This idea is a dinosaur. Since you are not going to mix a multitrack live it is a waste of time. Hard enough to convince bands it's worthwhile doing a live multitrack from an X 32 or other digital interface already in line and properly gained up. So many bands nowadays really suck they don't want to have to relive it...I guess.
This idea is a dinosaur. Since you are not going to mix a multitrack live it is a waste of time. Hard enough to convince bands it's worthwhile doing a live multitrack from an X 32 or other digital interface already in line and properly gained up. So many bands nowadays really suck they don't want to have to relive it...I guess.
Re: X16 Preview
I actually record our practices and check those to see how we are doing. It is surprising how what you thought sounded so cool when you did it live ... when you listen to the recording .... not so much
I am in the camp of wanting our performance to sound good. I don't believe in "cheating". You use the tools that make you sound good.
"Pitch Correction" is generally considered to be a subtle effect where you shouldn't hear any obvious difference. "Autotune" is that horrid thing where your singers notes warble rapidly from one note to the next. Even that is needed to cover some songs.
I do have a different point of view when I play solo though I still use pitch correction .... and even a harmonizer on occasion, but I tend toward just me and a guitar. Some of the best solo work I have done was just my voice, some TC Helicon reverb, and my Taylor guitar going through a pair of DSR112's.
I actually record our practices and check those to see how we are doing. It is surprising how what you thought sounded so cool when you did it live ... when you listen to the recording .... not so much
I am in the camp of wanting our performance to sound good. I don't believe in "cheating". You use the tools that make you sound good.
"Pitch Correction" is generally considered to be a subtle effect where you shouldn't hear any obvious difference. "Autotune" is that horrid thing where your singers notes warble rapidly from one note to the next. Even that is needed to cover some songs.
I do have a different point of view when I play solo though
I still use pitch correction .... and even a harmonizer on occasion, but I tend toward just me and a guitar. Some of the best solo work I have done was just my voice, some TC Helicon reverb, and my Taylor guitar going through a pair of DSR112's.
Re: X16 Preview
So have there been any updates that I've missed on the ix16 release date? As far as I can tell there's been nothing.
Greg
So have there been any updates that I've missed on the ix16 release date? As far as I can tell there's been nothing.
Greg
Re: X16 Preview
Good question. As a present DL1608 user I'm more interested in the X32 Core with an S16. The X32 Rack would be interesting if they hadn't hidden the inputs on the rear - am I the only one that thinks that's wack :roll: ?
Good question. As a present DL1608 user I'm more interested in the X32 Core with an S16. The X32 Rack would be interesting if they hadn't hidden the inputs on the rear - am I the only one that thinks that's wack :roll: ?
Re: X16 Preview
I'm thinking as an install piece(set and forget) or in my case as a band iem/foh mixer, it makes perfect sense to have the inputs on the back, it also keeps the foot print down. This is what I wanted from the get go when x32 came out and I should have one in my hot little hands next week...
I'm thinking as an install piece(set and forget) or in my case as a band iem/foh mixer, it makes perfect sense to have the inputs on the back, it also keeps the foot print down. This is what I wanted from the get go when x32 came out and I should have one in my hot little hands next week...
Re: X16 Preview
The Core/S16 combo takes the same rackspace and has the inputs on the front.
Re: X16 Preview
Just remember that you loose 8 aux inputs and 8 outputs and spend $400 more for that privilege. The Rack and the full X32 are on a I/O count the most cost effective.
Just remember that you loose 8 aux inputs and 8 outputs and spend $400 more for that privilege. The Rack and the full X32 are on a I/O count the most cost effective.
Last edited:
Re: X16 Preview
6 of each actually - plus a talkback input.
True, but gives you your inputs buried in the back of the rack :?~:-?~:???: .
Re: X16 Preview
~ .
Actually I'd prefer no display and no controls at all (except a headphones level maybe) on a 2U X32 - less stuff to break 8)~
~ .Re: X16 Preview
Yup nothing yet. I bet Uli wished he started that new factory project a year earlier. He can't keep up with the demand for all the new products as is. I'm all for repackaging the rack and calling it iX32. Nice iPad/notepad tray on top. Saves on a lot of development and support cost. Make the AES50 and P16 a plug in option to reduce cost.
Last edited:
Re: X16 Preview
Four traditional aux's and two record/play I/O's. I was to quick just counting connectors. :blush: