X32 Discussion
- Thread starter Rob Spence
- Start date
Re: X32 Discussion
OK, I've been misled by word clock adverts about word clock and audio quality. I've read about jitter issues when forcing internal clocks to sync with other clock sources. It's just sync. Does not affect audio. Got it. Myth busted.
What about the DA part? Would, say, a Mytek 96DAC offer any benefit over the X32's DA for studio monitoring purposes? Or is it that it would sound "different" not necessarily better. DA adverts and reviews tout "greater precision and accuracy ". Do better components/design make it more precise and accurate? Can "better" be electronically quantified in a DA (effect on a waveform) or is it just subjective to the individual listener?
Back to the X32...So, how would I sync and pass audio between an X32 Rack with every other piece of digital gear I own that has ADAT I/O or S/PDIF I/O. As far as I see, I can't. Can AES 50 be used? No idea. Nothing in Behringer lit. They (of course) only discuss connecting to their boxes. Google searched a bit and found nothing useful. Insights?
The X32 family only have 1-card slot so even if they offer an ADAT I/O card, I'd loose the USB/Firewire connection.
Looks like I may have to consider the larger form factor of the X32 Compact to gain the AES3 output.
OK, I've been misled by word clock adverts about word clock and audio quality. I've read about jitter issues when forcing internal clocks to sync with other clock sources. It's just sync. Does not affect audio. Got it. Myth busted.
What about the DA part? Would, say, a Mytek 96DAC offer any benefit over the X32's DA for studio monitoring purposes? Or is it that it would sound "different" not necessarily better. DA adverts and reviews tout "greater precision and accuracy ". Do better components/design make it more precise and accurate? Can "better" be electronically quantified in a DA (effect on a waveform) or is it just subjective to the individual listener?
Back to the X32...So, how would I sync and pass audio between an X32 Rack with every other piece of digital gear I own that has ADAT I/O or S/PDIF I/O. As far as I see, I can't. Can AES 50 be used? No idea. Nothing in Behringer lit. They (of course) only discuss connecting to their boxes. Google searched a bit and found nothing useful. Insights?
The X32 family only have 1-card slot so even if they offer an ADAT I/O card, I'd loose the USB/Firewire connection.
Looks like I may have to consider the larger form factor of the X32 Compact to gain the AES3 output.
Re: X32 Discussion
I have a few suggestions for the x-mix ipad app:
I know custom layers have been suggested before for the console, and I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but having a custom layer for the iPad app seems easy to program. I find myself assigning single channels to a DCA, just so I can live on the DCA layer and have quick control of my FX returns. It would be nice to have an 8 fader custom layer where I can have my drums DCA on fader 1, then choose to have single channel of lead guitar next to it. The idea is so I can tweak EQ's, comps, delays directly from the "DCA" layer without first navigating to the actual channel layer and entering those parameters.
Also, and this is less important, it would be nice to have an option ganging the comps and gates to a single tab page. I feel like you could squeeze both sets of meters and controls into a single page (at least with my full size iPad 3).
On a side note, after reading here about the "Wave Designer" plugin, I tried it on a snare drum tonight. Wow!!! That effect is amazing! You can take the dullest sounding snare and really make it snap. I thought it was awesome.
Edit: Another thing that I really would like to see, is instead of the scrolling through logos for the channel display, have the logos pop like selecting channels for a DCA. The colors should pop up with them, so when naming a channel, you can instantly select color and logo without scrolling.
I have a few suggestions for the x-mix ipad app:
I know custom layers have been suggested before for the console, and I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but having a custom layer for the iPad app seems easy to program. I find myself assigning single channels to a DCA, just so I can live on the DCA layer and have quick control of my FX returns. It would be nice to have an 8 fader custom layer where I can have my drums DCA on fader 1, then choose to have single channel of lead guitar next to it. The idea is so I can tweak EQ's, comps, delays directly from the "DCA" layer without first navigating to the actual channel layer and entering those parameters.
Also, and this is less important, it would be nice to have an option ganging the comps and gates to a single tab page. I feel like you could squeeze both sets of meters and controls into a single page (at least with my full size iPad 3).
On a side note, after reading here about the "Wave Designer" plugin, I tried it on a snare drum tonight. Wow!!! That effect is amazing! You can take the dullest sounding snare and really make it snap. I thought it was awesome.
Edit: Another thing that I really would like to see, is instead of the scrolling through logos for the channel display, have the logos pop like selecting channels for a DCA. The colors should pop up with them, so when naming a channel, you can instantly select color and logo without scrolling.
Last edited:
Re: X32 Discussion
Question to Joe Sanborn: Just watched your webinar on scaled down X32s: Compact, Producer and Rack. Nice, but does Behringer plan upward expansion too, like to 48-input desk ("Extreme"?). Simple logic suggests that since AES50 can support the channel count, why not add a third input layer (33-48) and full support for a third S16 stage box (mean being able to use all its inputs and outputs). With 48 in and 24 out on stage it may be a hit. I've noticed that many used X32s on the market now (in near-new condition actually) were dumped by small sound companies for one reason: lack of channels (most of local guys that I know went straight to SC48). After initial "WOW" about X32 in general, its channel count was the biggest drawback that made them look at other options.
I don't mind having only 16 in and 8 out on the desk itself, but would LOVE 48in/24out on stage. What is the problem? Lack of CPU processing power or something else?
Question to Joe Sanborn: Just watched your webinar on scaled down X32s: Compact, Producer and Rack. Nice, but does Behringer plan upward expansion too, like to 48-input desk ("Extreme"?). Simple logic suggests that since AES50 can support the channel count, why not add a third input layer (33-48) and full support for a third S16 stage box (mean being able to use all its inputs and outputs). With 48 in and 24 out on stage it may be a hit. I've noticed that many used X32s on the market now (in near-new condition actually) were dumped by small sound companies for one reason: lack of channels (most of local guys that I know went straight to SC48). After initial "WOW" about X32 in general, its channel count was the biggest drawback that made them look at other options.
I don't mind having only 16 in and 8 out on the desk itself, but would LOVE 48in/24out on stage. What is the problem? Lack of CPU processing power or something else?
Re: X32 Discussion
At 32 channels it's already a hit. A higher input count would put it squarely in competition with the flagship Midas brand. I'd be very surprised if the X32 became an X48.
At 32 channels it's already a hit. A higher input count would put it squarely in competition with the flagship Midas brand. I'd be very surprised if the X32 became an X48.
Re: X32 Discussion
for the life of me I still can't figure out where 32+ Input channels are needed for your normal group. I've received several riders this year, the largest one had 36 inputs, which was obviously "expanded" to get out of the 32 input desk region. MOST are under 24, so I don't get the need for more than 32 channels, except the the "penis" factor.
for the life of me I still can't figure out where 32+ Input channels are needed for your normal group. I've received several riders this year, the largest one had 36 inputs, which was obviously "expanded" to get out of the 32 input desk region. MOST are under 24, so I don't get the need for more than 32 channels, except the the "penis" factor.
Re: X32 Discussion
In the past few years I had maybe 5 jobs where more than 32 channels were required. The rest, approx. 100, needs mainly less than 24.
IMO it would be better to work on a more flexible surface to handle more than one X32. So it would be possible to use, for instance, two of them to deal with 64 input channels and a third (core) is used to sum the output of the other two. Three cores and four S16s would make a 64 channel console for approx. 6k euros.
so the surface would be for me the point of interest. If you can easy switch between the consoles and have the possibility to cascade the engines you would have a full modular, expandable system. That would be my roadmap for the next year.
In the past few years I had maybe 5 jobs where more than 32 channels were required. The rest, approx. 100, needs mainly less than 24.
IMO it would be better to work on a more flexible surface to handle more than one X32. So it would be possible to use, for instance, two of them to deal with 64 input channels and a third (core) is used to sum the output of the other two. Three cores and four S16s would make a 64 channel console for approx. 6k euros.
so the surface would be for me the point of interest. If you can easy switch between the consoles and have the possibility to cascade the engines you would have a full modular, expandable system. That would be my roadmap for the next year.
Re: X32 Discussion
I'd rather go for two Rack, two S16 and one Core, getting a bit more for less. However, the hardware is already available, and different configuration for different tastes and needs are totally possible, we just need to convince Behringer that making the firmware tools for integration is a good idea.
I'd rather go for two Rack, two S16 and one Core, getting a bit more for less. However, the hardware is already available, and different configuration for different tastes and needs are totally possible, we just need to convince Behringer that making the firmware tools for integration is a good idea.
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
"Luring" (same in Danish btw), but "Dick Rees" will do :razz:
I was doing some rather dust-generating work in the studio, so I had to pack everything away and won't be touching my stuff for a couple of weeks.
"Luring" (same in Danish btw), but "Dick Rees" will do :razz:
I was doing some rather dust-generating work in the studio, so I had to pack everything away and won't be touching my stuff for a couple of weeks.
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
Thank you! I'll try the former on my Danish cousin today if she calls, we've been Facetiming on Sundays and will be doing so soon.
The latter term is probably strictly for American/Internet forums usage, while undoubtedly having special specific meaning for Minnesotans.
Thank you! I'll try the former on my Danish cousin today if she calls, we've been Facetiming on Sundays and will be doing so soon.
The latter term is probably strictly for American/Internet forums usage, while undoubtedly having special specific meaning for Minnesotans.
Re: X32 Discussion
I can support both of these conflicting posts.
While most of my jobs fit into 32 channels, the ones that don't -- don't. Having the ability to service higher channel count shows only makes my business more viable, even if it only happens a few times a year.
Klaus' post outlines how do be able to do so without investing in a specific piece of gear that only gets used a few times; being able to do it that way would create a new paradigm in the same way the X32 itself has done so.
I can support both of these conflicting posts.
While most of my jobs fit into 32 channels, the ones that don't -- don't. Having the ability to service higher channel count shows only makes my business more viable, even if it only happens a few times a year.
Klaus' post outlines how do be able to do so without investing in a specific piece of gear that only gets used a few times; being able to do it that way would create a new paradigm in the same way the X32 itself has done so.
Re: X32 Discussion
Actually, external clocking actually increases clock jitter inherently due to the cable interconnect which adds capacitance. This in turn increases errors in the desk. It's possible that these errors are perceived as "better sound." However, the external clock is decreasing fidelity & increasing distortion. Whether or not it's truly audible is debatable. I'm skeptical. The only reason to use an external clock is for sync reliability between multiple pieces of gear that require it. No other reason.
Actually, external clocking actually increases clock jitter inherently due to the cable interconnect which adds capacitance. This in turn increases errors in the desk. It's possible that these errors are perceived as "better sound." However, the external clock is decreasing fidelity & increasing distortion. Whether or not it's truly audible is debatable. I'm skeptical. The only reason to use an external clock is for sync reliability between multiple pieces of gear that require it. No other reason.
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
My Danish cousin is obviously too genteel to know such gutter slang. She had never heard of "luring", either in Danish or Norwegian, even when I wrote it down and showed it to her.
Or was that a Scandanavian trick, dickrees? Will I now have to explain my rudeness after she asks her kids what this means?
(To be a successful slang term, I think dickrees should be one word lowercase. It looks nice that way, too. BTW, I hope The Original is OK with this.....)
My Danish cousin is obviously too genteel to know such gutter slang. She had never heard of "luring", either in Danish or Norwegian, even when I wrote it down and showed it to her.
Or was that a Scandanavian trick, dickrees? Will I now have to explain my rudeness after she asks her kids what this means?
(To be a successful slang term, I think dickrees should be one word lowercase. It looks nice that way, too. BTW, I hope The Original is OK with this.....)
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
Edit: It actually looks like it's called 'viktigper' in norwegian so it seems to fit very well with a certain person
'Luring' (at least in swedish) would more translate into 'sneaky'.
Maybe 'viktigpetter' works better for you? I think that translates into danish and norwegian as well....
Edit: It actually looks like it's called 'viktigper' in norwegian so it seems to fit very well with a certain person
'Luring' (at least in swedish) would more translate into 'sneaky'.
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
I see 'dickrees' has additional translation potential.
I see 'dickrees' has additional translation potential.
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
That is the perfect translation, or "vittigper", as that describes someone making smartass jokes while "viktigper" is more descriptive of someone making smartass comments in a non-jokingly way. "Luring" is one of those words which meaning varies slightly from dialect to dialect and can mean anything from just describing someone as smart, to street-smart and contriving to downright sneaky. Luring in Danish is actually more often a trickster or even a con artist, so "sneaky" would probably be a safe translation from Danish as well. This is the hard thing with language, even when one knows the context and the geographical area, unless you narrow it down to cultural and social background, a word might be very hard to translate, and thus a sentence might mean something completely different to the listener than what the speaker tried to communicate.
When someone with an Arab background say "too much" they really mean "a lot" or even "enough" and when an oriental answers "yes" it only means he heard the question. When an astrophysicist say that "the universe is 80% black matter" he means "our universal mass calculations might be off by a factor of five" :twisted:
Edit: It actually looks like it's called 'viktigper' in norwegian so it seems to fit very well with a certain person
That is the perfect translation, or "vittigper", as that describes someone making smartass jokes while "viktigper" is more descriptive of someone making smartass comments in a non-jokingly way. "Luring" is one of those words which meaning varies slightly from dialect to dialect and can mean anything from just describing someone as smart, to street-smart and contriving to downright sneaky. Luring in Danish is actually more often a trickster or even a con artist, so "sneaky" would probably be a safe translation from Danish as well. This is the hard thing with language, even when one knows the context and the geographical area, unless you narrow it down to cultural and social background, a word might be very hard to translate, and thus a sentence might mean something completely different to the listener than what the speaker tried to communicate.
When someone with an Arab background say "too much" they really mean "a lot" or even "enough" and when an oriental answers "yes" it only means he heard the question. When an astrophysicist say that "the universe is 80% black matter" he means "our universal mass calculations might be off by a factor of five" :twisted:
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
Definition of "smart-ass":
Someone who can sit on an ice cream cone and tell you the flavor.
Definition of "smart-ass":
Someone who can sit on an ice cream cone and tell you the flavor.
Re: X32 Discussion
I was just thinking about this today. To a point I agree. But then at some point when X32 sales finally stall enough due to market saturation, and smaller iterations are already out there so I'm not sure how much more market penetration there'd be for any future 'mini X32's', some bean counter is going to say "Hey... what about a 48 channel version?". Maybe there's been resistance to that already. Maybe there'll be company resistance to that idea tomorrow. But I wonder once sales start declining enough on the X32 if there's really an option to not go 48 eventually?
Of course that's not tomorrow so anyone waiting on an X48 is probably going to be without a Behringer digital for quite some time.
As to those that wondering when 32 isn't enough.... When you have multiple bands and want neat, efficient changeovers. Of course there's other ways to skin a cat...
I was just thinking about this today. To a point I agree. But then at some point when X32 sales finally stall enough due to market saturation, and smaller iterations are already out there so I'm not sure how much more market penetration there'd be for any future 'mini X32's', some bean counter is going to say "Hey... what about a 48 channel version?". Maybe there's been resistance to that already. Maybe there'll be company resistance to that idea tomorrow. But I wonder once sales start declining enough on the X32 if there's really an option to not go 48 eventually?
Of course that's not tomorrow so anyone waiting on an X48 is probably going to be without a Behringer digital for quite some time.
As to those that wondering when 32 isn't enough.... When you have multiple bands and want neat, efficient changeovers. Of course there's other ways to skin a cat...
Re: S16 clicks and noisebursts and other problems.
When you see a sad movie, perhaps with a dead body, they might say something like "He looks calm" and when it gets translated into dan/nor they may say "Han ser rolig ud". In swedish the same dan/nor scentence means "He looks funny".
Yeah, even with languages as close as swe/dan/nor things are confusing at times.
When you see a sad movie, perhaps with a dead body, they might say something like "He looks calm" and when it gets translated into dan/nor they may say "Han ser rolig ud". In swedish the same dan/nor scentence means "He looks funny".