X32 Discussion

[Paschall Leus]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Hello

How about using P16 for each band member? You could feed selected individual channels and mono groups and stereo groups. Each band member could mix freely what he/she wants without affecting others. Thus nearly ultimate freedom.

Nearly - meaning you have to make up your mind about which 16 channels/groups are worthy enough to be sent to monitors.

PLUS each one would get their own EQ and PAN for each channel...

Lots of extra set up and cost. That also forces us to move our wireless transmitters to the stage next to each P16. Not really a good solution for a traveling band.
Now, we have control of level and pan for all channels with the SL24. We want an X32 for the digital snake capabilities and more functionality from saving scenes and more control from the iPad for FOH. Hopefully this will be solved in the next X32-Mix software update.

 

[Timo Ulkuniemi]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Lots of extra set up and cost. That also forces us to move our wireless transmitters to the stage next to each P16. Not really a good solution for a traveling band.
Now, we have control of level and pan for all channels with the SL24. We want an X32 for the digital snake capabilities and more functionality from saving scenes and more control from the iPad for FOH. Hopefully this will be solved in the next X32-Mix software update.

Hello again

P16 could perfectly well be left at FOH, if needed. But yes - they would be adding cost...

IF 6 stereo mixes are enough for your band, that can be achieved now. Of 16 buses you use 4 for effects, that leaves you with 12 free buses to form 6 stereobuses. At moment you unfortunately have to use two faders per bus to control level and pan - but it is doable if you do not link the two buses. So instead of using your bus send 5 for level and 6 for pan, you would use 5 for left and 6 for right. Fortunately they are always visible at same time.

Nuuska

 

[Tamas Tako]

FX rack first 4 effects routing Question

Hi All,

- Does someone know, what it means, when in the first 4 FX the routing is set to INSERT?
Somehow I don´t know, what this exactly means....

- Is there any workaround to get the first 4 FX´s returns to the AUX ins instead of FX return channels?
(to add extra Gate to a reverb for example)

- what is the difference in the Channel strip EQ between Veq and Peq?


Thanks


Tamas

 

[Chris Wadden]

Re: X32 Discussion

I feel these will add a bit to "sucks" reputation of Behringer of the past.

Your entitled to your own opinion, but I disagree. I think there are plenty of users who simply do not need 32 channels, or have space to transport the size of the full X32. I think the Compact makes perfect sense, and is an awesome version to add to the line.

I understand that you can build a 64-channel system out of few X32s, X32 rack, etc, etc, but why not offer a full blown one-piece X48 or X64 right now? I'm sure there's a market for each one of compact and subcompact, but where's the real flagship of the line?

No, no you can't. The architecture of the board was not designed for more then 32 channels, and never will. As mentioned before, offering a "X48 or X64" would conflict with models offered by the Midas brand. If an application demands that many channels, then the end-user would most likely have the finances available to purchase one.

And the original X32 is ​the flagship.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: FX rack first 4 effects routing Question

- Does someone know, what it means, when in the first 4 FX the routing is set to INSERT?
Somehow I don´t know, what this exactly means....

When they are set to insert, they are available to be used as inserts on channels instead of their usual sidechain send-return operation

- Is there any workaround to get the first 4 FX´s returns to the AUX ins instead of FX return channels?
(to add extra Gate to a reverb for example)

Yes and no, you can select them as source in the Home-config tab, but it won't be instead of the fx return. You can just disengage the routing from the fx return to main (main tab) if you want to run it exclusively through the aux.
You might not want to use the aux though, because the aux only has eq. Use channels for the full processing, just mute the send to the effect you are tapping so you don't accidentally create a loop.

[/QUOTE]- what is the difference in the Channel strip EQ between Veq and Peq?[/QUOTE]

The shape for one, the Veq is wider at the same Q setting. Can't remember if there are any phase-differences between the two.

 

[Joe Sanborn]

Re: FX rack first 4 effects routing Question

Agree. Just saw a X32-Compact at Guitar Center in San Francisco today for the first time.

Dear Arik,

Allow me to address a few points in regards to the X32 COMPACT.
There are many users who want a smaller X32 and thus, we are offering the X32 COMPACT and shortly the X32 PRODUCER.
These users primarily fall into three categories:
1 - If you ONLY need 16 x 8, why not save $500 over a new full size X32?
2 - If you plan to buy S16 stageboxes, why not save $500 as you will not be using any of the internal mic preamps other than to route 6 of them to the AUX input layer for local use?
3 - Smaller size is key in many applications, especially the AV and Church/HOW market where space can often be an issue. In fact, the X32 COMPACT is over 10" less in width (35.4" vs 24.6"), making it easy for one person to carry into a gig.

We are looking into "spilling" the input faders across all 16 faders. This is in very early consideration for V2 firmware.

In regards to a larger X32, please consider that in one year, BEHRINGER has released 5 digital consoles. A larger model, while not out of the question, is not as easy as you presume. The current mix engine in the X32 has significant DSP horsepower to deliver the large number of EQs, compressors, gates, and 8 FX slots with 40 algorithms. With 2 S16 stageboxes and the ability to route 6 local mic preamps into the AUX inputs, you have 38 mic preamps in the most affordable solution on the market. If the X32 is not meeting your needs for mic preamp count, please consider the MIDAS PRO 1. MIDAS will be releasing a very affordable line of new stageboxes that might make this the perfect solution for your needs.

I hope this helps.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Lots of extra set up and cost. That also forces us to move our wireless transmitters to the stage next to each P16. Not really a good solution for a traveling band.
Now, we have control of level and pan for all channels with the SL24. We want an X32 for the digital snake capabilities and more functionality from saving scenes and more control from the iPad for FOH. Hopefully this will be solved in the next X32-Mix software update.

Huh, why would you need to move the transmitters? There are no analog inputs on the p16!

Keep the transmitters where you already have them and route the signals as needed into the p16 bus. The extra setup(?) is the ethernet cable and that can link to each p16 so there is no real extra setup added.

The p16 are approx $250 each so the cost isn't really that big. And if you double up with the p16-I (approx $350) you can use the p16's with your sl24 (or any other mixer with auxes/busses) as well...

 

[Karl Barnes]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Drummers and stationary keyboard players could make do with hard wired earpieces running directly from the headphone out on the P16.
For the lead singer in my band I run a twin core cable from the line outs on his P16 (up at the front of the stage) to his IEM transmitter at the back of the stage. The transmitters for the other band members are in their instrument racks, next to them. By using a P16-D to feed all the onstage P16s, I don't need to run power to them as the power is provided thru the CAT5 cable.
There's no more equipment to set up than if they were using wedges; in fact it's a lot lighter.
It's no harder to set up than wedges either. It is way more flexible.

It's not about working harder, this is working smarter. It's worth the extra few minutes to set it all up.

My lot recently rolled up at a festival. I put my X32 at FOH, opened the case, plugged in mains and ran audio to the main FOH desk.
I then plugged into the provided CAT5 cable that had been laid alongside the main multicore.
5 minutes work and FOH was set up.
The band set themselves up on the stage and I set up the P16 system for them.
After a quick line check to make sure that the instruments were in the correct channels (done over headphones so as not to interfere with the acoustic guitar act on before us), the guys were ready to go; no soundcheck required. The monitors were 90% dialled in already, so was their main patch on the X32.
The first song of their set was the soundcheck, after which everything was dialled in; all 32 channels worth.
The local FOH engineer (OK, so he was fresh out of college) was blown away at how we turned up, hooked up and did our set with no fuss. The festival organiser came over to me afterwards and commented on how good it was to work with pros. I simply responded by saying "let me know when they turn up"...!

Overall, that was not hard work. There was no messing around with setting up individual monitor mixes and overall set up was a breeze.
Smart, not hard.

Cost wise, yes it has cost some money to get the full monitoring system in place, but not a lot compared to an Aviom system, which when it comes down to it doesn't do any more than the P16 system and costs significantly more.

My lot invested in stages, partly due to the release schedule of the desk and the snakes.
We got the X32 first and then some P16s and the P16-D.
That got us up and running, but still using analog snakes.

When the S16 came out, we got two and haven't looked back.

Yes, I have had to change the way I've done things compared to when we had our old system (01v96, external pre-amps, analog snakes, etc), but now I'm doing things this way, I wouldn't want to go back.

The P16s are worth it. Here's a tip, get one and give it to the keyboard player or lead singer.
I'm willing to bet that after a couple of gigs, the rest of the band will gladly part with their own money to get their own.

Karl.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Huh, why would you need to move the transmitters? There are no analog inputs on the p16!

He's talking about the IEM-transmitters, and they need to take the signal from the PM-16, so either move the transmitters or route the output signal back to FOH (which means a snake, di-boxes and what have you). As far as the original problem here, the easy solution is to pan to taste from the desk and use the iPad for levels.

 

[Pauly Mel]

Re: ROuting Aux inputs to Cubase - AAAAHHH!

John thank you so much.
(And thanks for the other replies fellas )

That's got it working beautifully.
One question - in routing, selecting AuxIn 1-6/TB gets it working as I'd expect -

What does the 'TB' stand for?

Thanks.
Pauly

Dear Pauly,
The Aux1-6/Mon option routes what is set on the "Aux Out" tab of the ROUTING menu to the Card outputs. So, when using this option you would need to assign the direct outputs of the AUX in channels to the Aux Outputs first, similar to assigning channels to analog outputs and choosing the Out 1-8 options.
In firmware 1.15 we have added the "AuxIn 1-6/TB" option which will directly route the AUX inputs to the Card outputs without any further routing.
Hope this helps!

 

[Emke Douwe]

Re: ROuting Aux inputs to Cubase - AAAAHHH!

Is there a quick way to do the panning for a channel to a stereo bus? Or is the only way by the bus send screen?

 

[Arik Semagin]

Re: FX rack first 4 effects routing Question

Dear Arik,

Allow me to address a few points in regards to the X32 COMPACT.
There are many users who want a smaller X32 and thus, we are offering the X32 COMPACT and shortly the X32 PRODUCER.
These users primarily fall into three categories:
1 - If you ONLY need 16 x 8, why not save $500 over a new full size X32?
2 - If you plan to buy S16 stageboxes, why not save $500 as you will not be using any of the internal mic preamps other than to route 6 of them to the AUX input layer for local use?
3 - Smaller size is key in many applications, especially the AV and Church/HOW market where space can often be an issue. In fact, the X32 COMPACT is over 10" less in width (35.4" vs 24.6"), making it easy for one person to carry into a gig.

We are looking into "spilling" the input faders across all 16 faders. This is in very early consideration for V2 firmware.

In regards to a larger X32, please consider that in one year, BEHRINGER has released 5 digital consoles. A larger model, while not out of the question, is not as easy as you presume. The current mix engine in the X32 has significant DSP horsepower to deliver the large number of EQs, compressors, gates, and 8 FX slots with 40 algorithms. With 2 S16 stageboxes and the ability to route 6 local mic preamps into the AUX inputs, you have 38 mic preamps in the most affordable solution on the market. If the X32 is not meeting your needs for mic preamp count, please consider the MIDAS PRO 1. MIDAS will be releasing a very affordable line of new stageboxes that might make this the perfect solution for your needs.

I hope this helps.

Joe,

First of all, sorry for my language about X32 compact. I don't want to badmouth Behringer just because of the past quality issues. I own and owned more than a few Behringer boxes (still use a compact 1622FX mixer for small jobs and DI800 as stage DI box sitting on top of S16 in a rack). Possibly I'm not a target customer for compact models, but honestly there's not that much of a size reduction to go through doubled number of layers switching and give up some surface controls (unless you are in extremely cramped control booth). Hope you guys did some market research before releasing compact models. I just feel you can do more with this board. If the CPU power is the real issue (not the marketing / MIDAS sales), I'd really like to see 48 or 64 channel models as one-piece mixer. Even the current X32 is an engineering marvel at this price, compare to other boards on the market.

With backing track becoming more common for live shows, it would be nice at least to increase number of available playback channels along with live feeds, like 32 ins from stage and 32 backing tracks from Pro Tools via firewire simultaneously. It will put X32 in direct competition with SC48 that has 32+32 capability (of course X32 won't replace SC48, but hey, it starts at $18K for base configuration). Functionally, if firmware update will allow to use REMOTE button to switch layers between 32 feeds from stageboxes and 32 channels from Pro Tools via firewire, it would be very welcome improvement that may take some heat of those wanting 48- or 64-channel versions. Just a wish!

Channel spill would be nice too.

 

[Paschall Leus]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

He's talking about the IEM-transmitters, and they need to take the signal from the PM-16, so either move the transmitters or route the output signal back to FOH (which means a snake, di-boxes and what have you). As far as the original problem here, the easy solution is to pan to taste from the desk and use the iPad for levels.

Thanks everyone for all the replies. $1,250 for 5 P-16s is a lot of money for us and it is extra set up, no matter how you slice it. Plus, you can only have 16 channels/groups, rather than access the full 32 channels plus aux ins/effects. Right now all we have to have are iPads or iPhones and our IEM transmitters sit at the mixer. I think the easiest solution right now is to not link the buses and have a Left and Right bus for each musician. "Panning" could be done by changing the levels for each ear, analog style, it will just be more difficult to get the balance right.

 

[Donald P Leaman]

Re: ROuting Aux inputs to Cubase - AAAAHHH!

John thank you so much.
What does the 'TB' stand for?

Not absolutely certain, but I'd venture to guess it stands for Talk Back.....

Don

 

[John DiNicola]

Re: ROuting Aux inputs to Cubase - AAAAHHH!

John thank you so much.
(And thanks for the other replies fellas )

That's got it working beautifully.
One question - in routing, selecting AuxIn 1-6/TB gets it working as I'd expect -

What does the 'TB' stand for?

Thanks.
Pauly

Dear Pauly,
As Don states, the TB stands for Talkback. Specifically, the 7th channel would be the internal talkback mic and the 8th channel would be the external talkback mic.

Is there a quick way to do the panning for a channel to a stereo bus? Or is the only way by the bus send screen?

Dear Emke,
You can use the bus send encoders to do this when you have two buses linked together for a stereo bus. In this scenario, the odd numbered encoder controls level while the even numbered encoder controls panning. For example, if sending to a stereo bus using buses 1 & 2, the first encoder is volume and the second is pan.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

"Panning" could be done by changing the levels for each ear, analog style, it will just be more difficult to get the balance right.

That isn't going to work too well for the iPhone app, because you really only have access to one bus without doing a lot of fiddling. How much panning do you need to do? Some quick panning initially from the desk and you are set, it isn't like there will be a lot of call for panning something mid show.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

He's talking about the IEM-transmitters, and they need to take the signal from the PM-16, so either move the transmitters or route the output signal back to FOH (which means a snake, di-boxes and what have you). As far as the original problem here, the easy solution is to pan to taste from the desk and use the iPad for levels.

Hmmmm, silly me... :-(

Oh, well - Back to the drawing board.

Btw, by building a small ethernet splitter it would actually be possible to send unbalanced stereo audio back to the x32 via the ethernet cable and via a clever hack by using a two capacitors you can send balanced stereo audio back as well

 

[Dieter Edinger]

Probable bugs in X32-Edit (and console?)

As I'm new to this board I first would like to say "HELLO" to everybody and that I'm really impressed about the know how and tolerance in this board.

I don't own a X32 myself, but as soon as I have sold my analogue equipment and can afford this mixer I will be very happy to have one myself. For this reason I have tried to get used to all functions using X32-Edit (PC Version 1.10).

Now I think I found two bugs and wanted to know your opinions.

1.) Saving a matrix channel to a preset shows the wrong icon for active compressor
Each time a channel is saved in the library, it shows with different icons which channel sections have been active (eg. HA, Lowcut, Gate, EQ, Comp, etc.)
Everything is fine when a channel or mixbus is saved, but when a matrix is saved with an active compressor, the library shows the wrong icon (lowcut instead of comp although there is no lowcut for matrices)

2.) Sends on Fader for Subgroups?
From my analogue world I understand that the individual levels of the channels assigned to a subgroup are controlled with the channel faders and the subgroup fader controls the summed signal. In the X-32 Edit it is possible to engage the Sends on Fader also for subgroups and the channel faders move as they were assigned to a monitor feed. Shouldn't the faders remain at their individual position for subgroups as the channel level already determines the level sent to the subgroup? Either this way or it should not be possible to engage the send on faders for subgroups.

Do you have the same opinion on these two findings or am I completely wrong?
It would also be very kind if someone could try to reproduce this on the console, as I have none to test.

Thank you very much in advance for your answers!

 

[Nick Simon]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Hello again

P16 could perfectly well be left at FOH, if needed. But yes - they would be adding cost...

IF 6 stereo mixes are enough for your band, that can be achieved now. Of 16 buses you use 4 for effects, that leaves you with 12 free buses to form 6 stereobuses. At moment you unfortunately have to use two faders per bus to control level and pan - but it is doable if you do not link the two buses. So instead of using your bus send 5 for level and 6 for pan, you would use 5 for left and 6 for right. Fortunately they are always visible at same time.

Nuuska

Similar to what we do, but we use 10 mono busses. you can select each, go sends on fader, and mix each IEM to taste....

edit: Dieter.. this is what you are talking about above....

 

[Dieter Edinger]

Re: X32 - in ear stereo monitoring

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your reply, but I'm not talking about bus sends, where I fully understand the sends on fader logic,
but I am not sure what to do with this option when a mixbus is configured as a subgroup.

Think about following example:
- Mixbus1 & Mixbus 2 are configured as a stereo subgroup
- Channel 1 is assigned to this subgroup
- When I look at the sends page of channel one, there are no faders for sending a Signal to Mixbus 1 and Mixbus 2 but when I select Mixbus 1 and hit the "Sends on Fader" button, I can adjust a level sent to this bus,
but which Level should that be? In my opinion it can not be an send independent from the channel fader, it must be the fader Level or the option "Send on Fader" must not exist here.

Sorry if my English is not the best, as I'm no native Speaker.