Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

No kidding ! The rack I used (not mine) ended up under water (long, stupid story). They dumped them out, let them dry and on they went. That was 1980s. I know for fact one of them was still working a few years ago.
Question is are the backs of all the guys that had to hump them around still working :razz: ?
 
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier

Dear Uli, I think it's amazing that you follow these forums and continue to respond. Thanks!

I have been researching the NU6000 for some time now and it looks like there is a somewhat limited supply. Several of the largest online vendors in USA seem to routinely run out of them within days each time they list them as in stock. Is this a case of Behringer not keeping up with demand, and if so why, or is it a vendor issue?

FWIW the 3 reasons I do not yet own one: fan noise (minor issue), reliability question (which you have addressed more than ever before), and the 2 times I was ready to do it - they were out of stock.

Also, when for NU4-6000 and NU12000 ?

Dear John,

thank you for your kind comment.

The iNuke amplifiers have become some of the most successful amplifiers worldwide within a very short period of time. In fact the NU6000 is the top selling amplifier in the high-power category with Thomann, Europe's largest retailer. The amplifier is also selling extremely well in the US, too.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/amps_bigger_than_2000_w.html

We have not been able to cope with the large demand and that's why you are encountering shortages in the market. However, we have since ramped up production and are confident that this issue will be soon resolved.

The NU12000 is currently in the Safety and FCC testing stage and we are confident to start production in Q2.

Warm regards

Uli
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gunter Tack
Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Frankly, this is THE most asked question in the 24 years since I started the Company. Allow me to re-post a response I published on SF some time ago.

This is such an important question because there is a lingering perception that we must somehow be cutting corners to reduce cost. I have seen people claim that we must be using poor quality parts, not following quality control processes or somehow designing in obsolescence.

While I can tell you that this is absolutely not the case, it may be best if I offer some insights into our business model to explain.


There are four fundamental elements that comprise the selling price of our products; materials, labor, overhead and profit.

Achieving low prices and delivering great value for our customers requires great discipline and hard work in each of these areas. It is my responsibility as the CEO to set the pace and ensure that we reduce costs while always increasing quality; because without quality, we cannot maintain low costs.


We reduce the cost of raw materials in two ways:
First, we buy direct from manufacturers and not through a second source, distributor or contract manufacturer.
Second, we buy in enormous quantities and leverage this volume in negotiating lower prices.

Of course owning the factory where we build our products allows us to cut out at least 30% of the margin demanded by contract manufacturers who are supplying some of our competitors.


Consider that we buy our A/D and D/A converters from Cirrus Logic; the same parts (CS5368 and CS4385) that you will find in a $200k console; we encourage anyone interested to look further into this. We have also been told that we are the single largest Cirrus Logic customer behind only Apple!

You will find similar examples with Analog Devices, makers of the SHARC DSPs that we use or Mabuchi, who make the motors for our motor-faders (and those of Penny & Giles, Alps, etc.) and the list goes on. We are buying the very best parts, from the very best manufacturers, direct and in huge quantities.

That means we pay the lowest possible prices.


Likewise we have two major ways in which we reduce the cost of labor to build our products. First, we own the factory and this means we are paying workers directly and not through a third party that is making a markup.

Again, this results in up to 30% savings. Second, we have invested in massive amount of automation to a far greater extent than many in China in order to reduce cost while increasing quality.


This past year for example we converted the placement of electrolytic capacitors and other through-hole components from hand-insertion to full automation.
Each of the machines that now place e-caps in rapid-fire succession cost over $500k US so the savings in cost will take some time to be realized.

But we have seen an immediate improvement in first-pass yield by eliminating the chance of human error, and that is both improving quality and reducing the cost of re-work.


We run our company with a very low overhead relative to some competitors, and we do this not by cutting corners but rather by working smarter.

First off we invest heavily in systems that improve productivity and reduce redundancy. For example our engineering management software Agile talks to our website content management system so when we enter a product’s specifications we do it once and it is automatically replicated across several departments and is immediately posted to the web. Or take our service manuals which are created automatically, in real-time and with the very latest schematics, parts lists and engineering changes - all available through an on-line portal.


Another way we reduce overhead is by re-investing profits in our company to purchase machinery, land and buildings. For example we have purchased new buildings in Manchester, UK and Las Vegas, USA in the past year. We have also purchased land and we are building a $50 million state-of-the-art campus to contain a new factory, research center, logistics hub and residential village in China. These investments not only give us greater control over quality and production but they also reduce our operating costs over the long term.

Finally it is important to know that we operate on what would be considered to be a slim margin by industry standards. While some manufacturers price their products according to what they think the market will accept, we do it very differently.

We calculate our costs and add a fair markup that will allow us to continue to grow our business and nothing more. Again, we have all seen strategies where manufacturers release new products at high prices only to reduce them as other competitors come into the market. We prefer to offer a fair price from the beginning and not play such games.


The reality of our company is that we are a highly efficient organization of 3,500 people including over 250 engineers and in-house manufacturing. We build up to 5 million products a year and consequently buy parts at the lowest possible cost.

Since I started the company 24 years ago, it has been our philosophy to pass on savings to the customer and this will always be our philosophy.
Offering excellent products at affordable prices has gained us millions of loyal customers who in return reward us by buying our products.

Yes, we are a very different kind of company, we want to be different and I am immensely proud of our team.

Warm regards

Uli
 
Last edited:
iNuke 4 channel with DSP ???

Hello

Do you have a 4 channel amp with DSP in plans?

THAT would be my ideal monitor amp. While with X32 I can set monitor outs to sound about perfect with PEQ , it would be great to have the DSP in amp, so it could be used with analog boards, too - like my old 962... or rental applications to prevent some wizards to get too bright with their monitoring ideas ( I once had a customer blow four JBL2426 drivers at once...)
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Frankly, this is THE most asked question in the 24 years since I started the Company. Allow me to re-post a response I published on SF some time ago.

This is such an important question because there is a lingering perception that we must somehow be cutting corners to reduce cost. I have seen people claim that we must be using poor quality parts, not following quality control processes or somehow designing in obsolescence.

While I can tell you that this is absolutely not the case, it may be best if I offer some insights into our business model to explain.


There are four fundamental elements that comprise the selling price of our products; materials, labor, overhead and profit.

Achieving low prices and delivering great value for our customers requires great discipline and hard work in each of these areas. It is my responsibility as the CEO to set the pace and ensure that we reduce costs while always increasing quality; because without quality, we cannot maintain low costs.


We reduce the cost of raw materials in two ways:
First, we buy direct from manufacturers and not through a second source, distributor or contract manufacturer.
Second, we buy in enormous quantities and leverage this volume in negotiating lower prices.

Of course owning the factory where we build our products allows us to cut out at least 30% of the margin demanded by contract manufacturers who are supplying some of our competitors.


Consider that we buy our A/D and D/A converters from Cirrus Logic; the same parts (CS5368 and CS4385) that you will find in a $200k console; we encourage anyone interested to look further into this. We have also been told that we are the single largest Cirrus Logic customer behind only Apple!

You will find similar examples with Analog Devices, makers of the SHARC DSPs that we use or Mabuchi, who make the motors for our motor-faders (and those of Penny & Giles, Alps, etc.) and the list goes on. We are buying the very best parts, from the very best manufacturers, direct and in huge quantities.

That means we pay the lowest possible prices.


Likewise we have two major ways in which we reduce the cost of labor to build our products. First, we own the factory and this means we are paying workers directly and not through a third party that is making a markup.

Again, this results in up to 30% savings. Second, we have invested in massive amount of automation to a far greater extent than many in China in order to reduce cost while increasing quality.


This past year for example we converted the placement of electrolytic capacitors and other through-hole components from hand-insertion to full automation.
Each of the machines that now place e-caps in rapid-fire succession cost over $500k US so the savings in cost will take some time to be realized.

But we have seen an immediate improvement in first-pass yield by eliminating the chance of human error, and that is both improving quality and reducing the cost of re-work.


We run our company with a very low overhead relative to some competitors, and we do this not by cutting corners but rather by working smarter.

First off we invest heavily in systems that improve productivity and reduce redundancy. For example our engineering management software Agile talks to our website content management system so when we enter a product’s specifications we do it once and it is automatically replicated across several departments and is immediately posted to the web. Or take our service manuals which are created automatically, in real-time and with the very latest schematics, parts lists and engineering changes - all available through an on-line portal.


Another way we reduce overhead is by re-investing profits in our company to purchase machinery, land and buildings. For example we have purchased new buildings in Manchester, UK and Las Vegas, USA in the past year. We have also purchased land and we are building a $50 million state-of-the-art campus to contain a new factory, research center, logistics hub and residential village in China. These investments not only give us greater control over quality and production but they also reduce our operating costs over the long term.

Finally it is important to know that we operate on what would be considered to be a slim margin by industry standards. While some manufacturers price their products according to what they think the market will accept, we do it very differently.

We calculate our costs and add a fair markup that will allow us to continue to grow our business and nothing more. Again, we have all seen strategies where manufacturers release new products at high prices only to reduce them as other competitors come into the market. We prefer to offer a fair price from the beginning and not play such games.


The reality of our company is that we are a highly efficient organization of 3,500 people including over 250 engineers and in-house manufacturing. We build up to 5 million products a year and consequently buy parts at the lowest possible cost.

Since I started the company 24 years ago, it has been our philosophy to pass on savings to the customer and this will always be our philosophy.
Offering excellent products at affordable prices has gained us millions of loyal customers who in return reward us by buying our products.

Yes, we are a very different kind of company, we want to be different and I am immensely proud of our team.

Warm regards

Uli


Uli, many thank for your reply, I understand fully and think it is brilliant that you take the time to respond at this level. Also congratulations on making some great products with incredible pricing, where can I buy music group shares? :)

I have the following loose ends.

1) The first amp that failed was promptly fixed by your very responsive team, it was returned with a service sheet stating that D1, D2, and D4 had failed. So is D3 likely to fail at some point?

2) I have two more of these amps that have had virtually no use yet, can I trust and rely on them or should they be returned to have the diodes replaced. I am worried they could fail at a critical time.

Look forward to some direction on this as I am nervous about using them.

Thanks.
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Dear David,

thank you for your post.

I am glad our Care team could help you quickly fix the amplifier. Our service team has certainly replaced all four diodes in your amp, as this is a routine procedure.

The defect relates to a batch of diodes made by International Rectifier. IR is an excellent US semicon manufacturer, which demonstrates that component defects can occur, even when coming from first-tier suppliers.

The problem was spotted early on and corrective action was immediately taken. Unfortunately a small amplifier lot had already shipped with these potentially-defective diodes. Luckily this only relates to a very small lot of amplifiers, and all current products are perfectly OK.

If you are concerned, please contact or visit our Care center in Las Vegas or Kidderminster who are more than happy to check if your amps belong to the initial lot. If anyone else has a concern, please contact our Care centers at [email protected].

Apologies for the trouble and thank you for being a BEHRINGER customer.

Warm regards

Uli
 
Last edited:
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

I have unfortunately needed Behringer support due to the aforementioned problems.
obviously hoping that is the end of the issues now.

The support has been both prompt and professional, how may businesses would the CEO get involved and Ian is a great guy, I can easily forgive the odd issue when the backup is of such a high quality.

Well done Uli and Ian. Very impressive.
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Dear David,

thank you for your post.

I am glad our Care team could help you quickly fix the amplifier. Our service team has certainly replaced all four diodes in your amp, as this is a routine procedure.

The defect relates to a batch of diodes made by International Rectifier. IR is an excellent US semicon manufacturer, which demonstrates that component defects can occur, even when coming from first-tier suppliers.

The problem was spotted early on and corrective action was immediately taken. Unfortunately a small amplifier lot had already shipped with these potentially-defective diodes. Luckily this only relates to a very small lot of amplifiers, and all current products are perfectly OK.

If you are concerned, please contact or visit our Care center in Las Vegas or Kidderminster who are more than happy to check if your amps belong to the initial lot. If anyone else has a concern, please contact our Care centers at [email protected].

Apologies for the trouble and thank you for being a BEHRINGER customer.

Warm regards

Uli

Hello Uli,

Just thought I would reach out and get some feedback, since I'm clearly not getting anywhere with your 'care' centre.

Quick Summary -
I bought a 6000 DSP unit from Amazon.co.uk. The date code is 11/11. I'm driving two 18 inch 900W @ 4ohms subs off each channel. I'm using it in my HT and have 1200W limiters on.
The unit has about 30 hours of use. I logged a case with your care centre about two weeks ago (Case opened 10 June) and sent all the requested information on the 13 of June 2013.
I have since tried to follow up via email (June 19) and have to date received no response.

What is disturbing is that reading the reviews on Amazon, I'm not the only one who has failed to receive any service from your 'care' centre.
I have exactly the issue as most people seem to suffer with the Inuke 6000. The unit fails to power on. The fans spin for a few seconds and then stops. No lights on the unit at all.
I could be wrong but it sounds like the power diode problem. The unit was never pushed into any sort of distriss. I got the 6000 in order to keep distortion low by running the unit at about 60%.

All the technology and fancy marketing mean nothing if you not willing to provide a consistent and superior after sales service especially in the face of a know manufacturer defect.
I'm sure you realize it is repeated cases of this type of after sales support from Behringer that will continue to keep new customers away and tarnish any sort of respectable reputation you
trying to build for your brand.

I look forward to your response.
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Hello Uli,

Just thought I would reach out and get some feedback, since I'm clearly not getting anywhere with your 'care' centre.

Quick Summary -
I bought a 6000 DSP unit from Amazon.co.uk. The date code is 11/11. I'm driving two 18 inch 900W @ 4ohms subs off each channel. I'm using it in my HT and have 1200W limiters on.
The unit has about 30 hours of use. I logged a case with your care centre about two weeks ago (Case opened 10 June) and sent all the requested information on the 13 of June 2013.
I have since tried to follow up via email (June 19) and have to date received no response.

What is disturbing is that reading the reviews on Amazon, I'm not the only one who has failed to receive any service from your 'care' centre.
I have exactly the issue as most people seem to suffer with the Inuke 6000. The unit fails to power on. The fans spin for a few seconds and then stops. No lights on the unit at all.
I could be wrong but it sounds like the power diode problem. The unit was never pushed into any sort of distriss. I got the 6000 in order to keep distortion low by running the unit at about 60%.

All the technology and fancy marketing mean nothing if you not willing to provide a consistent and superior after sales service especially in the face of a know manufacturer defect.
I'm sure you realize it is repeated cases of this type of after sales support from Behringer that will continue to keep new customers away and tarnish any sort of respectable reputation you
trying to build for your brand.

I look forward to your response.

Dear Nuno


My name in Ian Riley and I am the VP of Care for the MUSIC Group.


I have reviewed your case history and firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay of our response as it took some time to gather all facts.


It is important to understand that all Warranty services are provided in the country of purchase in line with our warranty policy.


In your case, the unit was purchased in the UK while you are residing in South Africa. Unfortunately we are unable to service your product free of charge unless you return the unit to the dealer where you bought it.


However I am pleased that we have managed to help find an alternative solution with our South African distributor and thank you for your patience.


If I can assist you further, please do not hesitate to contact me


Best regards


Ian Riley
VP Care
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Ian,

"Unfortunately we are unable to service your product free of charge unless you return the unit to the dealer where you bought it."

I have no dog in this fight, but this sentence just lit me up. Really. This is corporate bureaucratic bullshit at it's finest.

From Meriam Webster:
un·able adjective \ˌən-ˈā-bəl\
: not able : incapable: as
a : unqualified, incompetent
b : impotent, helpless

Perhaps you meant "unwilling"?
again, Meriam Webster:
un·will·ing adjective \-ˈwi-liŋ\

Definition of UNWILLING
: not willing:
a : loath, reluctant <was unwilling to learn>
b : done or given reluctantly <unwilling approval>
c : offering opposition : obstinate <an unwilling student>

Have a nice day.
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Or perhaps he was commenting on the company policy with regards to grey market imports.
The purchase tax on the amp would have been paid in the UK, not SA.
The purchase contract would have been with the UK retailer.
All problems with the purchase should go through them first.
Likewise, as it's a UK purchase, it should be dealt with by the UK support team.
The OP didn't comment on whether he paid import tax when bringing it into SA.

Like it or not, by moving the item from the territory in which it was purchased, to another part of the world, it has been exported.

Maybe there should be an 'export to' feature in the warranty registration procedure so that you can move the registration of a device between territories.
Maybe that should have a small admin cost to it.
Or maybe that would effectively acknowledge and support grey market imports.

Also, there is possibly a legal aspect to the export and support of an item, which quite rightly, Behringer may not want to go into on a public forum.

Whilst it looks like a simple case of Behringer being 'unwilling' to do it for free, it is possible that the law means that the really are 'unable' to do so.

Karl.
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Ian,

"Unfortunately we are unable to service your product free of charge unless you return the unit to the dealer where you bought it."

I have no dog in this fight, but this sentence just lit me up. Really. This is corporate bureaucratic bullshit at it's finest.

From Meriam Webster:
un·able adjective \ˌən-ˈā-bəl\
: not able : incapable: as
a : unqualified, incompetent
b : impotent, helpless

Perhaps you meant "unwilling"?
again, Meriam Webster:
un·will·ing adjective \-ˈwi-liŋ\

Definition of UNWILLING
: not willing:
a : loath, reluctant <was unwilling to learn>
b : done or given reluctantly <unwilling approval>
c : offering opposition : obstinate <an unwilling student>

Have a nice day.

I have much better things to do with my time than defend Behringer, and we all agree the visuals of this look bad. Behringer the manufacturer, is not always the same company who buys and resells the product to end users in every small country. Warranty service is generally a cost factored for in the transfer price to the regional distributor, so local service is the ultimate responsibility of the distributor who sold the product.

Note: I am making ASSumptions about how Behringer deals with their distribution chain, I do not have any actual inside information, but did anybody really expect the unusually high level of hand holding to continue after the high profile new product was stable?

Relax, it's just bidness.

JR
 
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

Karl, I suspect there several things at play, including the gray market issues you reference. Also Music Group's warranty repair reimbursement scheme may have the local distributor picking up part of expense. As the South Africa distributor made no income from the sale I can certainly understand why they should not be responsible for support in such a case. My guess is that Music Group has worked out a deal with the SA distributor for a 100% reimbursement.

Private ownership of an item that is used in the course of itinerant business, that is neither consumed by a process nor is an ingredient, and the title to which is not transferred to another party, is not import or export in the sense of "retail trade." I understand that from a purely legal standpoint merely moving something across a border can constitute exportation/importation, but I don't think that's the real issue here. If Mr. Ceitil's use of the product is not itinerant, then he *did* import his purchase to SA and his warranty is void.

That said, manufacturers and distributors are free to create and enforce their own warranty agreements. So long as buyers are able to examine the warranty prior to purchase, it's up the the buyer to determine if the product and its support are acceptable. If not, they need to find another product or purchase/use the product within the terms of the warranty agreement.

While I'm sympathetic to Mr. Ceitil's problem and pleased to see Music Group taking care of his situation I don't feel they are legally obligated to do so. Music Group's handling of this is exceptional (as in "not standard") and likely would not have happened had Mr. Ceitil not posted his issue here on the forum.

In a world marketplace, manufacturers need to understand that their customers use their products in more than 1 geopolitical jurisdiction and that a broken device has no idea where it is failing. Some form of accommodation needs to be devised.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
Last edited:
Re: Why are BEHRINGER products so affordable?

In a world marketplace, manufacturers need to understand that their customers use their products in more than 1 geopolitical jurisdiction and that a broken device has no idea where it is failing. Some form of accommodation needs to be devised.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

At the risk of stating the obvious, one apparent difference in the expectation for service between expensive, low volume, professional touring gear, and MI gear is the "whatever it takes for the show to go on", support that some professional touring gear companies provide. This is expensive to do, and is priced into the cost of the product. MI gear is not expected to be used like professional touring gear while differences between products may be subtle and not the hardware itself, but support policy and infrastructure.

A bargain version of this, is buying a widely distributed MI brand that is sold in over a hundred countries, so you can get the product fixed all around the world, it just might not be free, because even though it may be the same brand, you are not dealing with the same merchant you purchased it from.

This is what it is, and far better than buying a low cost unit from a small company that doesn't have world wide reach.

JR
 
Maximizing security

Hello from Finland

I am planning to drive 3-way pa with two iNuke 6000DSP per side. One would handle horn and midrange. The second would drive two 8-ohm woofets - one for each amp channel. Thos is obviously relative easy for the amp.

Can I make it even easier by running ch 2 with reversed polarity and then reversing it back in speaker cable?

With analog amp having +/- supply rails this is obvious. But are these iNukes built on "dualrail" or something completely different.

My goal is to maximize system reliability by having amps work on optimal conditions... I am not after max power output, while two iNukes per side provide enough at any case. I only want to improve sound quality and system pergormance and relaibility.

Thanks for attentipn.
 
Re: Maximizing security

" I only want to improve sound quality and system pergormance and relaibility. "

Well your already starting off in the hole with amp choice but that's another story.

Get some 8 conductor wire to run to your stacks. 2 wires for high, 2 for mids, 2 for 1 18, 2 for the other 18. They sell 8 conductor 13 guage speaker wire in one jacketed bundle.
 
Re: Maximizing security

Hello

As is now - I have two iNuke 6000 for top cabinets and after some big enough gigs I can tell they work fine.

Please note - what is big for me might be peanuts for others.

I plan to have an amprack with short cables behind speakers on both sides.

I have been using a Carver PT 1250 to run subs for both sides with mostly enough power... also long cables because of all amps on one side.

SO - I can not see myself sitting in a hole, while planning to substitute one Carver running 4 ohms per channel and long cables with two more powerful iNukes running 8 ohms per channel and short speaker leads...

So please explain why I am in a hole with my idea!

Better yet - answer my question, if you can.

Danke