Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
It has a mono mode which parallels the input, and gain for ch 1 controls both channels.
It has a mono mode which parallels the input, and gain for ch 1 controls both channels.
Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
- Thread starter Richard Stringer
- Start date
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Hello again
One final try - you all are busy trying to help me, but no-one has understood my question.
Background - I have been running, designing, building etc active and passive 2-4- way soundsystems over twenty years.
Right now my pa-rack has two iNuke 6000DSP running a pair of JBL EVO cabinets, whos amps are blown... Plus one Carver PT1250 driving four 8-ohm cabinets with single 18
Top cabinet processing is taken care of in iNukes, who get their signal as LR from X32
Sub processing is done in X32, while I use dedicated sub out - Mono/center
So everything goes fine and my clients are happy.
Naturally having all amps in one rack leads to long leads....
Doing some reading a while ago about how cables affect damping factor , I decided to change my system a bit. This has also to do with the fact, that X32 Rack is on its way and I shall rerack my stuff anyways...
I have been very happy with my two iNuke amps. Then again, my Carver is OLD. I have 9 of them and most of them have PSU issue, and I think I let good old friends retire into something lighter and get two more iNuke 6000DSP instead.
New system would have a 4 unit rack on both sides of stage right behind speakers. Goodbye long heavy cables - welcome new lighter cables.
If I should do the amps in traditional way, I would have two options for cabling.
- option 1. Top cabinet - 4-wire cable from first iNuke. Subs - two 2-wire cables from second iNuke
- option 2. Top cabinet as above. Subs - Y-cable from iNuke to two subs. iNuke has option to output both channels from single connector - as is done with top cabinets.
If I run the amps the way my original question was about, wiring would be as option 2 with the exeption, that cable connected to polarity-reversed amp channel would need to be reversed, too in order to keep all cabinets in same polarity.
Now back to the original question for last time !!!
As most amplifiers run on +/- supply rails, they can benefit of connecting the channels in opposite polarities - as is done in Carver M-500t home amplifier. When a strong pulse needs power, it can surge it from both positive and negative capacitors - one channel uses positive energy and the other uses negative energy - thus improving amp performance. Obviously there is no benefit, when signal approaches sinewave. But I intend to keep my stuff dynamic.
So the original question was about iNuke- amps internal life : does it benefit of running the two channels in opposite polarities or not?
Thanks for attention.
Hello again
One final try - you all are busy trying to help me, but no-one has understood my question.
Background - I have been running, designing, building etc active and passive 2-4- way soundsystems over twenty years.
Right now my pa-rack has two iNuke 6000DSP running a pair of JBL EVO cabinets, whos amps are blown... Plus one Carver PT1250 driving four 8-ohm cabinets with single 18
Top cabinet processing is taken care of in iNukes, who get their signal as LR from X32
Sub processing is done in X32, while I use dedicated sub out - Mono/center
So everything goes fine and my clients are happy.
Naturally having all amps in one rack leads to long leads....
Doing some reading a while ago about how cables affect damping factor , I decided to change my system a bit. This has also to do with the fact, that X32 Rack is on its way and I shall rerack my stuff anyways...
I have been very happy with my two iNuke amps. Then again, my Carver is OLD. I have 9 of them and most of them have PSU issue, and I think I let good old friends retire into something lighter and get two more iNuke 6000DSP instead.
New system would have a 4 unit rack on both sides of stage right behind speakers. Goodbye long heavy cables - welcome new lighter cables.
If I should do the amps in traditional way, I would have two options for cabling.
- option 1. Top cabinet - 4-wire cable from first iNuke. Subs - two 2-wire cables from second iNuke
- option 2. Top cabinet as above. Subs - Y-cable from iNuke to two subs. iNuke has option to output both channels from single connector - as is done with top cabinets.
If I run the amps the way my original question was about, wiring would be as option 2 with the exeption, that cable connected to polarity-reversed amp channel would need to be reversed, too in order to keep all cabinets in same polarity.
Now back to the original question for last time !!!
As most amplifiers run on +/- supply rails, they can benefit of connecting the channels in opposite polarities - as is done in Carver M-500t home amplifier. When a strong pulse needs power, it can surge it from both positive and negative capacitors - one channel uses positive energy and the other uses negative energy - thus improving amp performance. Obviously there is no benefit, when signal approaches sinewave. But I intend to keep my stuff dynamic.
So the original question was about iNuke- amps internal life : does it benefit of running the two channels in opposite polarities or not?
Thanks for attention.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
The IPR amps already use opposite polarities but the NU's don't. If it doesn't complicate things I would use opposite polarities on "normal" maps as it's a bit less stressful on the power supply. My NU3000 is permanently in bridge mode and I run my subs either in stereo or bridge depending on the venue with a breakout box wired to reverse the polarity to the second sub when in stereo to undo the reverse that being in bridged mode does. This is just a plastic junction box with four speakons mounted - "in", "bridged", "one" and "two". The "in comes from the combined output on the NU using a four wired speakon cable. The outs can be two wire cables, and when using the bridged output I run the second sub off the first sub's passthough.
In your specific case the NU6000 amps are already a pair of bridged NU3000's so there's no benefit to reversing polarity.
The IPR amps already use opposite polarities but the NU's don't. If it doesn't complicate things I would use opposite polarities on "normal" maps as it's a bit less stressful on the power supply. My NU3000 is permanently in bridge mode and I run my subs either in stereo or bridge depending on the venue with a breakout box wired to reverse the polarity to the second sub when in stereo to undo the reverse that being in bridged mode does. This is just a plastic junction box with four speakons mounted - "in", "bridged", "one" and "two". The "in comes from the combined output on the NU using a four wired speakon cable. The outs can be two wire cables, and when using the bridged output I run the second sub off the first sub's passthough.
In your specific case the NU6000 amps are already a pair of bridged NU3000's so there's no benefit to reversing polarity.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Timo,
as far as your concern of dampning factor and long runs of wire, How long is the wire run between the amp and far side stack right now? 50 feet?
Going from 50 feet to lets say 15 feet is not going to yield you a , something you can hear difference. For the simplicity of running 1 bundle, 8 conductor speaker line across the stage I'd leave all amps together. Then you won't have to run power and signal line across the stage.
Ron,
I'm still trying to figure out what your doing, or whats going on in the Inuke?
Timo,
as far as your concern of dampning factor and long runs of wire, How long is the wire run between the amp and far side stack right now? 50 feet?
Going from 50 feet to lets say 15 feet is not going to yield you a , something you can hear difference. For the simplicity of running 1 bundle, 8 conductor speaker line across the stage I'd leave all amps together. Then you won't have to run power and signal line across the stage.
Ron,
I'm still trying to figure out what your doing, or whats going on in the Inuke?
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
My NU3000 sub amp is always run in bridged mode. I can still run it stereo by reversing the +-1 wires on channel B as in bridge mode that channel is inverted. The junction box I have takes a four wire speakon cable from the amp's channel A output which has both channels on it. It does this:
IN - Bridged - A - B
+1 --> +1 -> +1
-1 ---------> -1
+2 --> -1 -----> -1
-2 ------------> +1
Sorry, it's hard to say it clearly but I'll try again.
My NU3000 sub amp is always run in bridged mode. I can still run it stereo by reversing the +-1 wires on channel B as in bridge mode that channel is inverted. The junction box I have takes a four wire speakon cable from the amp's channel A output which has both channels on it. It does this:
IN - Bridged - A - B
+1 --> +1 -> +1
-1 ---------> -1
+2 --> -1 -----> -1
-2 ------------> +1
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
One thing you could try instead of putting mid and high on one amp and both subs on the other is to have highs and one sub on amp 1 and mids and the other sub on amp 2.
This could potentially give you more headroom from the amps power supply for the subs. It requires some cabling adapters in your amp racks though.
One thing you could try instead of putting mid and high on one amp and both subs on the other is to have highs and one sub on amp 1 and mids and the other sub on amp 2.
This could potentially give you more headroom from the amps power supply for the subs. It requires some cabling adapters in your amp racks though.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Question to Uli: when will the Inuke12000 amplifiers be available in Europe?
And why is a Inuke4-6000 more expensive then 2 separate Inuke3000, seems not logical to me?
Question to Uli: when will the Inuke12000 amplifiers be available in Europe?
And why is a Inuke4-6000 more expensive then 2 separate Inuke3000, seems not logical to me?
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Hi Uli,
Unfortunately I am also a NU 6000 owner for the past 6-8 weeks and I am also having the problems as others. Running it with the 4ohm VP2550's we bought along with the power amp we have found that it can never leave the shop as real production equipment. Just will not stay on at any operational level. We have change the input levels, ran it low, ran it at half, ran it at half plus but pretty much it starts to shut itself down after the first 30-45 minutes. After the first shut down it regularly repeats shutting down every 5-10 minutes. Just letting it sit doing absolutely nothing, no input or output volume raised, just powered on. It will shut down. When it does this we need to turn it off for about 30 minutes before we can get that first 30-45 minutes operation time out of it.
Bought this at Sound House in Japan. Will be sending it back. Tried to get them just to replace it with a downgrade EP 4000 but they refused. Pretty sure the EP 4000 doesn't have this type of limiting circuitry as the NU 6000. I believe the EP 4000 running into trouble would just reduce the outputs. This is acceptable as this would not be a show stopper and we could probably get by even with its lowered power rating if we just adjust accordingly to the gig demands.
Can this really be fixed? Quite upsetting in Japan
Hi Uli,
Unfortunately I am also a NU 6000 owner for the past 6-8 weeks and I am also having the problems as others. Running it with the 4ohm VP2550's we bought along with the power amp we have found that it can never leave the shop as real production equipment. Just will not stay on at any operational level. We have change the input levels, ran it low, ran it at half, ran it at half plus but pretty much it starts to shut itself down after the first 30-45 minutes. After the first shut down it regularly repeats shutting down every 5-10 minutes. Just letting it sit doing absolutely nothing, no input or output volume raised, just powered on. It will shut down. When it does this we need to turn it off for about 30 minutes before we can get that first 30-45 minutes operation time out of it.
Bought this at Sound House in Japan. Will be sending it back. Tried to get them just to replace it with a downgrade EP 4000 but they refused. Pretty sure the EP 4000 doesn't have this type of limiting circuitry as the NU 6000. I believe the EP 4000 running into trouble would just reduce the outputs. This is acceptable as this would not be a show stopper and we could probably get by even with its lowered power rating if we just adjust accordingly to the gig demands.
Can this really be fixed? Quite upsetting in Japan
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Hmm, does not bridged means the input from channel A is shared with the channel B? Meaning it can only be mono, not stereo.
Hmm, does not bridged means the input from channel A is shared with the channel B? Meaning it can only be mono, not stereo.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I should have said "dual mono" not "stereo". Channel A and B driving one 8 or 4 ohm load each.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Seems to me that Behringer still doesn't have their quality checks under control...
Recently a colleague also tried a inuke, but doesn't switch on, right out of the box.
Seems a problem with the IEC inlet connector, when you rumble at it, you hear a sprakling and then it starts up.
When this happens at a gig, I would be more liking to throw in the trash bin then sending it back to the store :evil:
Seems to me that Behringer still doesn't have their quality checks under control...
Recently a colleague also tried a inuke, but doesn't switch on, right out of the box.
Seems a problem with the IEC inlet connector, when you rumble at it, you hear a sprakling and then it starts up.
When this happens at a gig, I would be more liking to throw in the trash bin then sending it back to the store :evil:
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Yeah seems the quality control is the BR customers and not the BR in house team. Usually when you buy something like this it would always have a QC stamp or label on it stating "tested by" and the QC test test date for customer satisfaction but not the inuke.
Finally we also tried giving it a dedicated circuit and put it on a power conditioned strip but no luck with that either. If BR can give us a permanent fix for this. Identify their own problem, make the fix known and guarantee it wont happen again we would buy more as there is a definite bang for the buck here. But with the mentality of taking a chance or we need to buy 2 so we have 1 as backup doesn't economically work for us. Rather spend double and have something very dependable in the first place right.
The guys are like dude, we have lost more than the purchase price from 2 months ago, we have also lost the revenues and customer venues as this amp can't be put to work. I have a democratic crew here and it's going to be hard to convince the guys to ever trust a product like this again unless something gets done here.
Yeah seems the quality control is the BR customers and not the BR in house team. Usually when you buy something like this it would always have a QC stamp or label on it stating "tested by" and the QC test test date for customer satisfaction but not the inuke.
Finally we also tried giving it a dedicated circuit and put it on a power conditioned strip but no luck with that either. If BR can give us a permanent fix for this. Identify their own problem, make the fix known and guarantee it wont happen again we would buy more as there is a definite bang for the buck here. But with the mentality of taking a chance or we need to buy 2 so we have 1 as backup doesn't economically work for us. Rather spend double and have something very dependable in the first place right.
The guys are like dude, we have lost more than the purchase price from 2 months ago, we have also lost the revenues and customer venues as this amp can't be put to work. I have a democratic crew here and it's going to be hard to convince the guys to ever trust a product like this again unless something gets done here.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Dear David,
Thank you for your post.
As you can see from my earlier post #80, we have been forthcoming with an explanation how this issue is related to an initial production batch.
The problem is related to a defective diode which causes the intermittent on-off effect.
The fix is actually very simple and since we have our own Care Center in Tokyo, I suggest you contact them and allow them to help you. Our distributor Soundhouse will be more than happy to get you in touch and our Care organization will also contact you.
Just to be clear, all our products are 100% tested, and power amps, powered mixers, etc. additionally undergo stress-testing before they leave the factory. The reason why we have not seen this issue in the QA stage, is because the diode only fails later in the field. The part in question is a Schottky diode from International Rectifier, which is a very reputable US manufacturer which shows that quality issues can happen even with the best vendors.
Instead of applying QC stickers, we use serial numbers as data point which link to a sophisticated data management system. This is a far more reliable process to track a product's life cycle.
We will get your amp right so you can enjoy it like many thousands of other customers. In fact the NU6000 has become the best selling amp in the iNuke range and currently ranks number one at Thomann, Europe's largest retailer.
Thank you for your patience.
Warm regards
Uli
Dear David,
Thank you for your post.
As you can see from my earlier post #80, we have been forthcoming with an explanation how this issue is related to an initial production batch.
The problem is related to a defective diode which causes the intermittent on-off effect.
The fix is actually very simple and since we have our own Care Center in Tokyo, I suggest you contact them and allow them to help you. Our distributor Soundhouse will be more than happy to get you in touch and our Care organization will also contact you.
Just to be clear, all our products are 100% tested, and power amps, powered mixers, etc. additionally undergo stress-testing before they leave the factory. The reason why we have not seen this issue in the QA stage, is because the diode only fails later in the field. The part in question is a Schottky diode from International Rectifier, which is a very reputable US manufacturer which shows that quality issues can happen even with the best vendors.
Instead of applying QC stickers, we use serial numbers as data point which link to a sophisticated data management system. This is a far more reliable process to track a product's life cycle.
We will get your amp right so you can enjoy it like many thousands of other customers. In fact the NU6000 has become the best selling amp in the iNuke range and currently ranks number one at Thomann, Europe's largest retailer.
Thank you for your patience.
Warm regards
Uli
Last edited:
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Uli,
Thank you so much for this answer, this has been what I was looking for, I have seen other posts that these were DOA or sent back for repair and even the repair didnt work, will get this back to Sound House Japan asap as they are saying it will take 2-3 weeks to have it done, I will translate your finer points in your follow up and maybe I can get this done quicker, sorry didnt see your 80 th post on this. Now I will sleep easier
Uli,
Thank you so much for this answer, this has been what I was looking for, I have seen other posts that these were DOA or sent back for repair and even the repair didnt work, will get this back to Sound House Japan asap as they are saying it will take 2-3 weeks to have it done, I will translate your finer points in your follow up and maybe I can get this done quicker, sorry didnt see your 80 th post on this. Now I will sleep easier
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Uli,
I have returned the NU 6000 today to SoundHouse Japan. Can you track the serial numbers on these? What Im conceerned with is not receiving repaired AMP but being sent a replacement. My logic is of course if there is a defect in a lot that I may receive antoher defective unit ready instead of a repaired one. Then the trouble could just happen again.
Uli,
I have returned the NU 6000 today to SoundHouse Japan. Can you track the serial numbers on these? What Im conceerned with is not receiving repaired AMP but being sent a replacement. My logic is of course if there is a defect in a lot that I may receive antoher defective unit ready instead of a repaired one. Then the trouble could just happen again.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
David, apparently it is just one little diode to replace. Let the nice service department do it job and relax.
I have a nice pile of EP amplifiers that have zero issues AND guys wanting to buy them on a regular basis. Based on my experience your Inuke will retain it resale value for years.
David, apparently it is just one little diode to replace. Let the nice service department do it job and relax.
I have a nice pile of EP amplifiers that have zero issues AND guys wanting to buy them on a regular basis. Based on my experience your Inuke will retain it resale value for years.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I have returned the NU 6000 today to SoundHouse Japan. Can you track the serial numbers on these? What Im conceerned with is not receiving repaired AMP but being sent a replacement. My logic is of course if there is a defect in a lot that I may receive antoher defective unit ready instead of a repaired one. Then the trouble could just happen again.
Dear David
The repair is a very simple diode change, and will be carried out by a qualified MUSIC Group technician, so please allay any concerns you have.
The reported diode failure, has only occurred on a relatively small number of units.
You have already supplied me with the units serial number, so I will keep you updated on the repair status via PM.
In the meantime, if you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards
Ian Riley
VP CARE
MUSIC Group
www.music-group.com
I have returned the NU 6000 today to SoundHouse Japan. Can you track the serial numbers on these? What Im conceerned with is not receiving repaired AMP but being sent a replacement. My logic is of course if there is a defect in a lot that I may receive antoher defective unit ready instead of a repaired one. Then the trouble could just happen again.
Dear David
The repair is a very simple diode change, and will be carried out by a qualified MUSIC Group technician, so please allay any concerns you have.
The reported diode failure, has only occurred on a relatively small number of units.
You have already supplied me with the units serial number, so I will keep you updated on the repair status via PM.
In the meantime, if you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards
Ian Riley
VP CARE
MUSIC Group
www.music-group.com
Last edited:
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I just bought an NU 6000 and after the first day it constantly went into protect mode and reset itself after about the first 30 minutes of rather moderate use. We tried various scenarios, changed boards, went direct, put it on a conditioned dedicated circuit and then just finally turned it on and watched it. Sure enough it started turning on and off just sitting there doing absolutely nothing. The volume was turned completely down and nothing connected. The Behringer care center followed up on my previous post and asked for the serial number. The Rep replied this serial number has the bad diode please send it back so we did. Got a mail from the care center saying that we cannot reproduce the same fault you have experienced even after 20 hours of testing but we replaced a diode anyway just as a precaution. What have they done with my amp for 20 hours! There is a post testing the NU6000 against a KVM and that test reports the same problem. The NU will go into self protect pushing into 4 ohm speakers. Their test claims if you keep it under a 1.7kw output it wont shut down. Ours shut down by just turning it on and letting it sit. When this protect starts it occurs more frequently like every 5-10 minutes ongoing. You cant run a show like this. This apparently is by circuit design too. Really disappointing this AMP. Already could have used it for 1 show that would have paid for it but we had to cancel. Need it back for the weekend of the 14th and the distributor is asking us to just go for the EP 4000, We said OK done deal, if we get 900w at 4 ohms we can make that work too. Guess what, no EP4000's in stock, have to wait up to 2 months for another delivery to Japan. We also ordered the Behringer VP 2520's with the NU6000. The day we sent the amp back to the distributor I think I heard one of the drivers going bad in one of the 2520's. I would stay away.
I just bought an NU 6000 and after the first day it constantly went into protect mode and reset itself after about the first 30 minutes of rather moderate use. We tried various scenarios, changed boards, went direct, put it on a conditioned dedicated circuit and then just finally turned it on and watched it. Sure enough it started turning on and off just sitting there doing absolutely nothing. The volume was turned completely down and nothing connected. The Behringer care center followed up on my previous post and asked for the serial number. The Rep replied this serial number has the bad diode please send it back so we did. Got a mail from the care center saying that we cannot reproduce the same fault you have experienced even after 20 hours of testing but we replaced a diode anyway just as a precaution. What have they done with my amp for 20 hours! There is a post testing the NU6000 against a KVM and that test reports the same problem. The NU will go into self protect pushing into 4 ohm speakers. Their test claims if you keep it under a 1.7kw output it wont shut down. Ours shut down by just turning it on and letting it sit. When this protect starts it occurs more frequently like every 5-10 minutes ongoing. You cant run a show like this. This apparently is by circuit design too. Really disappointing this AMP. Already could have used it for 1 show that would have paid for it but we had to cancel. Need it back for the weekend of the 14th and the distributor is asking us to just go for the EP 4000, We said OK done deal, if we get 900w at 4 ohms we can make that work too. Guess what, no EP4000's in stock, have to wait up to 2 months for another delivery to Japan. We also ordered the Behringer VP 2520's with the NU6000. The day we sent the amp back to the distributor I think I heard one of the drivers going bad in one of the 2520's. I would stay away.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
David that all stinks, to bad. I learned my lesson many years ago about Behringer, plus bands won't even hire people around here to do sound if theres behringer in rack. heck one guy just bought 4 monitors from behringer, he had to remove the decal from them so people wouldn't say whats that junk doing here. Unfortunately you get what you pay for. Inuke 6000, $ 400, Crest 9200 $2000, Powersoft k3, $3800, all these amps put out around a claimed 6kw, Makes ya wonder what a Behringer is made of.
David that all stinks, to bad. I learned my lesson many years ago about Behringer, plus bands won't even hire people around here to do sound if theres behringer in rack. heck one guy just bought 4 monitors from behringer, he had to remove the decal from them so people wouldn't say whats that junk doing here. Unfortunately you get what you pay for. Inuke 6000, $ 400, Crest 9200 $2000, Powersoft k3, $3800, all these amps put out around a claimed 6kw, Makes ya wonder what a Behringer is made of.