Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
If you get what you pay for didnt you have issues with your crest?
If you get what you pay for didnt you have issues with your crest?
Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
- Thread starter Richard Stringer
- Start date
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Yup, 3 8200's over a few years on sub duty melted the same trace and some other parts while bridged into 4 ohms. I'd wager that most people would pick and use a crest 8200 over a inuke 6000 if price was not the leading factor. At least I hope they would. If weight was not my limiting factor I'd still be using crest ca 18's and crown 5k's, and other size amps in those series. 15 years using them lines and never broke one. : )!!!
Yup, 3 8200's over a few years on sub duty melted the same trace and some other parts while bridged into 4 ohms. I'd wager that most people would pick and use a crest 8200 over a inuke 6000 if price was not the leading factor. At least I hope they would. If weight was not my limiting factor I'd still be using crest ca 18's and crown 5k's, and other size amps in those series. 15 years using them lines and never broke one. : )!!!
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I copied and pasted this to a different site, this was a return remark from someone that services amps,
""the crest pro 82/9200 series are SMPSU with an A/B output topology ..... the powersoft is smpsu (w/half wave converters,) and is class TD output ...... the BERINGER Inuke IS SMPSU WITH A TOTAL BULLSHIT 325Ms . burst output ....... the powersofts ,I hear have been plagued with issues and are a nightmare to service ....... if you CAN EVEN FIND A SERVICE AGENCY IN THE STATES""
I copied and pasted this to a different site, this was a return remark from someone that services amps,
""the crest pro 82/9200 series are SMPSU with an A/B output topology ..... the powersoft is smpsu (w/half wave converters,) and is class TD output ...... the BERINGER Inuke IS SMPSU WITH A TOTAL BULLSHIT 325Ms . burst output ....... the powersofts ,I hear have been plagued with issues and are a nightmare to service ....... if you CAN EVEN FIND A SERVICE AGENCY IN THE STATES""
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Running 4 ohm bridged is stupid. For any amp, regardless of what the manufacturer says.
Running 4 ohm bridged is stupid. For any amp, regardless of what the manufacturer says.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I don't agree for all cases. It's worked very well for the rig I use for nearly 20 years. Subs, 15" & 10" drivers in the top boxes have been using a 4 ohm bridged amp configuration for a long time without issues.
I don't agree for all cases. It's worked very well for the rig I use for nearly 20 years. Subs, 15" & 10" drivers in the top boxes have been using a 4 ohm bridged amp configuration for a long time without issues.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Don't confuse personal anecdote for best or even good practice. Amp designers try to design amps that will satisfy the majority of customers and sell well. Larger rated nominal power figures for a given price will always appeal to value customers, and any customer spending their own money and on a budget.
Distortion while arbitrarily small in good designs will generally double between 8 ohms and 4 ohms, and double again at 2. This may not be apparent from reading data sheets since distortion is generally specified +N (plus noise) and noise can conceal distortion in better designs.
Thermal headroom or duty cycle capacity will drop linearly with impedance. Even if the amps do not thermal out in normal use, MTBF (mean time between failure) generally drops in half for every 10'C increase in operating temperature.
Sometimes loading an amp down to marginal worst case loading, can allow subtle artifact to occur transiently. These are generally not correlated with the marginal loading, but they are caused by it.
The customer is always right.... even when...
JR
PS: Serious amp designers design their amps to not blow up and work well, despite how customers apply them. It would be bad marketing to argue too publicly against operating them at 2 ohms. BUT I CAN..... because I have nothing to lose.
Don't confuse personal anecdote for best or even good practice. Amp designers try to design amps that will satisfy the majority of customers and sell well. Larger rated nominal power figures for a given price will always appeal to value customers, and any customer spending their own money and on a budget.
Distortion while arbitrarily small in good designs will generally double between 8 ohms and 4 ohms, and double again at 2. This may not be apparent from reading data sheets since distortion is generally specified +N (plus noise) and noise can conceal distortion in better designs.
Thermal headroom or duty cycle capacity will drop linearly with impedance. Even if the amps do not thermal out in normal use, MTBF (mean time between failure) generally drops in half for every 10'C increase in operating temperature.
Sometimes loading an amp down to marginal worst case loading, can allow subtle artifact to occur transiently. These are generally not correlated with the marginal loading, but they are caused by it.
The customer is always right.... even when...
JR
PS: Serious amp designers design their amps to not blow up and work well, despite how customers apply them. It would be bad marketing to argue too publicly against operating them at 2 ohms. BUT I CAN..... because I have nothing to lose.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I'm glad it works for you, Greg, and I think it does so mostly because you're not a typical JV-level player. You have a bigger skill set and a couple decade's worth of experience.
I'm glad it works for you, Greg, and I think it does so mostly because you're not a typical JV-level player. You have a bigger skill set and a couple decade's worth of experience.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I remember when Crest Audio introduced the Pro *001 series. Designed to be bullet-proof at 4 ohms stereo, they also functioned pretty well (most of the time) at 2 ohms. When Crest marketing got that info, they used it in advertising, but the amps did not enjoy the reliability they earned at 4 ohm service. To get functionally reliable use @ 2 ohms, the thermal protection circuit required modification (adding or changing resistors) and accepting that the output transistors would likely have a shortened service life.
IIRC, Crest's service dept was not amused by the marketing dept's spin.
I remember when Crest Audio introduced the Pro *001 series. Designed to be bullet-proof at 4 ohms stereo, they also functioned pretty well (most of the time) at 2 ohms. When Crest marketing got that info, they used it in advertising, but the amps did not enjoy the reliability they earned at 4 ohm service. To get functionally reliable use @ 2 ohms, the thermal protection circuit required modification (adding or changing resistors) and accepting that the output transistors would likely have a shortened service life.
IIRC, Crest's service dept was not amused by the marketing dept's spin.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Same here Greg, was doing the bridge thing for 15 years prior to my 8200's. Ca series and crest v series. Never one failure. These amps were put through a nightmare of conditions, Like getting out of work, getting to a venue setting up as fast as possible and get the show going. This was done 100's of times taking my frozen ca and v series amps out of a 0 degree truck into a hot humid smoke filled bar, with condensation pouring off the amps. I have said o shit many a times, turned em on and they acted like the energizer bunny rabbit.
As far as failure I'm aware 2 ohm or 4 ohm bridge will put more stress on a amp, but I can't afford a amp that does 4500 watts stereo into 4 ohms.
Sonically, I'm sure that there is more noise from a amp when at 2 oms, thing is I'm in clubs, beaches and beer tents that will even drown out the hideous noise that would come out of a behringer product at idle or when driven hard. So Im not concerned about a noise difference that can be heard with a measurement device, and maybe heard in a dead silent room when running a amp at 2 ohm.
I use to run 2 ca9'd bridged into 2 jbl 4733's. I then put a ca 18 on it in stereo, sounded the same.
I believe it takes a lot more design and expence to make amps be able to go down to 2 ohm, So why don't manufactures make a amp that puts out more wattage into 4 ohm stereo, but can't go to 2 ohm.
Same here Greg, was doing the bridge thing for 15 years prior to my 8200's. Ca series and crest v series. Never one failure. These amps were put through a nightmare of conditions, Like getting out of work, getting to a venue setting up as fast as possible and get the show going. This was done 100's of times taking my frozen ca and v series amps out of a 0 degree truck into a hot humid smoke filled bar, with condensation pouring off the amps. I have said o shit many a times, turned em on and they acted like the energizer bunny rabbit.
As far as failure I'm aware 2 ohm or 4 ohm bridge will put more stress on a amp, but I can't afford a amp that does 4500 watts stereo into 4 ohms.
Sonically, I'm sure that there is more noise from a amp when at 2 oms, thing is I'm in clubs, beaches and beer tents that will even drown out the hideous noise that would come out of a behringer product at idle or when driven hard. So Im not concerned about a noise difference that can be heard with a measurement device, and maybe heard in a dead silent room when running a amp at 2 ohm.
I use to run 2 ca9'd bridged into 2 jbl 4733's. I then put a ca 18 on it in stereo, sounded the same.
I believe it takes a lot more design and expence to make amps be able to go down to 2 ohm, So why don't manufactures make a amp that puts out more wattage into 4 ohm stereo, but can't go to 2 ohm.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Peavey does with the CS 4080. I see a lot of amps that are current limited I believe and don't put out more power at 2ohms than 4.
Peavey does with the CS 4080. I see a lot of amps that are current limited I believe and don't put out more power at 2ohms than 4.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
The inuke 6000 is only rated to 4 ohm stereo, I believe he was told to limit the amp to 1750 watts, we are not even talking 4 ohm bridge. lol. So this amp can't even do what its designed for if you ask me, hence, the price of it.
Current limiting makes me wonder how much and how long these big amps can actually do what they claim if at all. Take a one space k20 bridged at 4, that would be 18,000 watts, it just doesn't sound possible, ( do to the huge amount of current that would flow ) for a amp like that to survive a very long time. There has to be a lot of limiting going on, am I correct?
The inuke 6000 is only rated to 4 ohm stereo, I believe he was told to limit the amp to 1750 watts, we are not even talking 4 ohm bridge. lol. So this amp can't even do what its designed for if you ask me, hence, the price of it.
Current limiting makes me wonder how much and how long these big amps can actually do what they claim if at all. Take a one space k20 bridged at 4, that would be 18,000 watts, it just doesn't sound possible, ( do to the huge amount of current that would flow ) for a amp like that to survive a very long time. There has to be a lot of limiting going on, am I correct?
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
So its said never to bridge a amp into 4 ohms, its foolish??? Well a inuke 6000 is 2 3000's bridged I believe, if yo see where I'm going with this.
Wait here it is.
" -----Running 4 ohm bridged is stupid. For any amp, regardless of what the manufacturer says.---- "
8)~
~
So its said never to bridge a amp into 4 ohms, its foolish??? Well a inuke 6000 is 2 3000's bridged I believe, if yo see where I'm going with this.
Wait here it is.
" -----Running 4 ohm bridged is stupid. For any amp, regardless of what the manufacturer says.---- "
8)~
~
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Alan, you're putting a lot of effort into ripping on a $400 amp. Did anybody really expect to pick one of these up and replace their high-dollar amps?
You get what you pay for, we all know this. Can we just get back to fighting over the StudioLive now?
So its said never to bridge a amp into 4 ohms, its foolish??? Well a inuke 6000 is 2 3000's bridged I believe, if yo see where I'm going with this.
Wait here it is.
" -----Running 4 ohm bridged is stupid. For any amp, regardless of what the manufacturer says.---- "
8)~
Alan, you're putting a lot of effort into ripping on a $400 amp. Did anybody really expect to pick one of these up and replace their high-dollar amps?
You get what you pay for, we all know this. Can we just get back to fighting over the StudioLive now?
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Alan those people that buy those 400 amps keep us in business
Alan those people that buy those 400 amps keep us in business
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Yup.
Alan those people that buy those 400 amps keep us in business
Yup.
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Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Hard to explain, lets see crest is gone, eaw is owned by the same company as mackie, just the whole turn to made in china,,,,
Hard to explain, lets see crest is gone, eaw is owned by the same company as mackie, just the whole turn to made in china,,,,
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Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Behringer is, making a good effort to better their reputation and after sales service. Fewer and fewer of their products look like "photocopy" engineering lower cost copies of other manufacturer's designs.
Crest is "gone"? Bought by a larger, Mississippi based company with, whatever else you think about them, a pretty good reputation for reliability. That's your idea of "gone"?
Okay,
And, except for the venture capital bean counters, pretty much everyone involved with EAW has acknowledged, at least "off the record" that moving their speaker manufacturing to China was probably a mistake.
I do wish that Mackie could have kept their manufacturing in Washington State and that pressure from the big retailers (like the Bain Capital owned Guitar Center) to keep prices "competitive" with Behringer and others didn't force them overseas.
Moderator, if any part of the above violates the "no politics" rule please delete it.
Behringer is, making a good effort to better their reputation and after sales service. Fewer and fewer of their products look like "photocopy" engineering lower cost copies of other manufacturer's designs.
Crest is "gone"? Bought by a larger, Mississippi based company with, whatever else you think about them, a pretty good reputation for reliability. That's your idea of "gone"?
Okay,
And, except for the venture capital bean counters, pretty much everyone involved with EAW has acknowledged, at least "off the record" that moving their speaker manufacturing to China was probably a mistake.
I do wish that Mackie could have kept their manufacturing in Washington State and that pressure from the big retailers (like the Bain Capital owned Guitar Center) to keep prices "competitive" with Behringer and others didn't force them overseas.
Moderator, if any part of the above violates the "no politics" rule please delete it.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
As far as crest, who's left from the real crest that went over to peavey?
As far as crest, who's left from the real crest that went over to peavey?