Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
JR
Good power is important and knowing it is good eliminates that variable.
JR
Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
- Thread starter Richard Stringer
- Start date
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I was making a joke.. but never mind... I don't need to go there.
JR
I was making a joke.. but never mind... I don't need to go there.
JR
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I agree, that's why I said I "don't agree for all cases"
The expensive amps seem to, for the most part, have the thermal capacity to deal with the stresses of low impedance loading. I wouldn't try it with the cheapies in any case.
I agree, that's why I said I "don't agree for all cases"
The expensive amps seem to, for the most part, have the thermal capacity to deal with the stresses of low impedance loading. I wouldn't try it with the cheapies in any case.Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Sorry dudes, this NU 6000 is going back for good. It's started switching on and off today after the first 15 minutes and continues to do so every 2-3 minutes after.
It's only been on total of a little over 4 hours since getting it back from repair last Sunday. It's useless, basically brand new and repaired once already.
Sorry dudes, this NU 6000 is going back for good. It's started switching on and off today after the first 15 minutes and continues to do so every 2-3 minutes after.
It's only been on total of a little over 4 hours since getting it back from repair last Sunday. It's useless, basically brand new and repaired once already.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Dear all,
Here are some quick answers.
1.) The NU Series has regulated switch-mode power supplies which come in a number of country versions. In the case of NU6000 the ranges are 90-110 V, 99-132 V and 198-264 V to cover the world market. The product labelling for the ranges is 100V, 110-120V and 220-240V carry an implied tolerance of ±10% which is the official specification for the mains voltage for each country.
2.) With the exception of David Ohyama, we have never had a customer that reported this particular issue. When we spoke earlier about a Japanese customer, we spoke about David, but out of courtesy didn't want to mention his name.
We invited David to our Care Center in Tokyo so we could demonstrate to him that the amp is fully functioning, but he has not yet taken up the opportunity. The distributor Sound House is equally happy to demonstrate to him that the amp is working perfectly fine.
Since the amp is not working at David's location, there is unfortunately nothing else we can do and we recommend him to return the amp for a full refund. Our recommendation would be to go for a linear power amp which is less susceptible to mains voltage variation.
3.) @Greg Cameron. This is actually a great topic even though we respectfully have a slightly different view.
With hundreds of thousands of our amps in the market and a clientele that is perhaps less informed about the laws of physics, the risk of short-circuits, mismatched impedances and abuse is much higher than with amps in the hands of professionals.
We test power amps in what we call "torture chamber" and run them for thousands of hours under various power conditions, loads, temperatures, environments, etc. We actually have a dedicated QA team that focuses solely on stress and aging tests and one of the tasks is to push amps beyond the limits. Among many tools, we also apply temperature sensors, thermographic cameras etc. to find hot spots within the product. Much of that is also part of the Certified Safety test, which each of our products has to qualify for.
The latest statistics show that we sell more amps than any other brand; as you can easily understand, any design flaw would cause immense financial impact as well as damage to our reputation with the amount of amps sold in the market.
We are very confident about the quality of our products and hence we assure customers with a 3-Year Warranty Program.
Kind regards,
Al Walker
Senior Engineer, Systems
MUSIC Group
Dear all,
Here are some quick answers.
1.) The NU Series has regulated switch-mode power supplies which come in a number of country versions. In the case of NU6000 the ranges are 90-110 V, 99-132 V and 198-264 V to cover the world market. The product labelling for the ranges is 100V, 110-120V and 220-240V carry an implied tolerance of ±10% which is the official specification for the mains voltage for each country.
2.) With the exception of David Ohyama, we have never had a customer that reported this particular issue. When we spoke earlier about a Japanese customer, we spoke about David, but out of courtesy didn't want to mention his name.
We invited David to our Care Center in Tokyo so we could demonstrate to him that the amp is fully functioning, but he has not yet taken up the opportunity. The distributor Sound House is equally happy to demonstrate to him that the amp is working perfectly fine.
Since the amp is not working at David's location, there is unfortunately nothing else we can do and we recommend him to return the amp for a full refund. Our recommendation would be to go for a linear power amp which is less susceptible to mains voltage variation.
3.) @Greg Cameron. This is actually a great topic even though we respectfully have a slightly different view.
With hundreds of thousands of our amps in the market and a clientele that is perhaps less informed about the laws of physics, the risk of short-circuits, mismatched impedances and abuse is much higher than with amps in the hands of professionals.
We test power amps in what we call "torture chamber" and run them for thousands of hours under various power conditions, loads, temperatures, environments, etc. We actually have a dedicated QA team that focuses solely on stress and aging tests and one of the tasks is to push amps beyond the limits. Among many tools, we also apply temperature sensors, thermographic cameras etc. to find hot spots within the product. Much of that is also part of the Certified Safety test, which each of our products has to qualify for.
The latest statistics show that we sell more amps than any other brand; as you can easily understand, any design flaw would cause immense financial impact as well as damage to our reputation with the amount of amps sold in the market.
We are very confident about the quality of our products and hence we assure customers with a 3-Year Warranty Program.
Kind regards,
Al Walker
Senior Engineer, Systems
MUSIC Group
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Japan has both 50Hz and 60Hz mains power regions but that should be of no consequence to a switching supply while 50Hz (where I think the customer is located) will have deeper ripple sag on primary capacitors.
The customer seems pretty confident in his mains voltage quality.
If he has marginal power it seems a lower technology, lower efficiency amp could have even more difficulty. :-(
Without on-site measurements and testing there may be no way to determine what exactly is going on. It could be something else wrong with associated wiring or speakers loads. This too will reveal itself over time. Hopefully David will keep us informed about his experience with whatever he replaces the NU amp with.
I understand all about customers, especially the customers you attract with value pricing. The work is delivering products that function despite them, but sometimes it isn't the customer's fault. A refund is the best you can do from a distance (the customer is always right), hopefully we'll get the rest of this story at some point.
JR
PS: +/- 10% +/- 10V does not seem like much high-line/low-line mains voltage range. Perhaps adequate for a highly developed country like Japan, many parts of the world would not tolerate a 10% low line, while your higher voltage models seem to provide a little more generous low-line input range.
Japan has both 50Hz and 60Hz mains power regions but that should be of no consequence to a switching supply while 50Hz (where I think the customer is located) will have deeper ripple sag on primary capacitors.
The customer seems pretty confident in his mains voltage quality.
If he has marginal power it seems a lower technology, lower efficiency amp could have even more difficulty. :-(
Without on-site measurements and testing there may be no way to determine what exactly is going on. It could be something else wrong with associated wiring or speakers loads. This too will reveal itself over time. Hopefully David will keep us informed about his experience with whatever he replaces the NU amp with.
I understand all about customers, especially the customers you attract with value pricing. The work is delivering products that function despite them, but sometimes it isn't the customer's fault. A refund is the best you can do from a distance (the customer is always right), hopefully we'll get the rest of this story at some point.
JR
PS: +/- 10% +/- 10V does not seem like much high-line/low-line mains voltage range. Perhaps adequate for a highly developed country like Japan, many parts of the world would not tolerate a 10% low line, while your higher voltage models seem to provide a little more generous low-line input range.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Hello Al. Thanks for the reply. However, in regards to this amp, your specifications indicate it's only rated for a 4 ohm load per channel (and no supported bridge operation) which by most standards is not the "low impedance loads" I was referring to. I'm referring specifically to 2 ohm stereo or 4 ohm mono bridge operation which puts significantly more thermal stress on an amplifier. Or rather, an amplifier's internal components. I have yet to find a budget amplifier that can operate long term under these conditions, and understandably so. If you have a NU series amps that can tolerate a 4 ohm load in bridge mode well, I'm all for testing it out. I'm looking for something that can deliver ~6kW into a 4 ohm bridged load for subwoofer duty.
I believe I read a while back that this particular amp, the NU6000, is essentially a pair of your smaller NU amps running in bridge mode already, stuffed into a single chassis. It would make sense then why operation below 4 ohms and bridge mode are not supported if that is the case.
Greg
Hello Al. Thanks for the reply. However, in regards to this amp, your specifications indicate it's only rated for a 4 ohm load per channel (and no supported bridge operation) which by most standards is not the "low impedance loads" I was referring to. I'm referring specifically to 2 ohm stereo or 4 ohm mono bridge operation which puts significantly more thermal stress on an amplifier. Or rather, an amplifier's internal components. I have yet to find a budget amplifier that can operate long term under these conditions, and understandably so. If you have a NU series amps that can tolerate a 4 ohm load in bridge mode well, I'm all for testing it out. I'm looking for something that can deliver ~6kW into a 4 ohm bridged load for subwoofer duty.
I believe I read a while back that this particular amp, the NU6000, is essentially a pair of your smaller NU amps running in bridge mode already, stuffed into a single chassis. It would make sense then why operation below 4 ohms and bridge mode are not supported if that is the case.
Greg
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
This thread has gone in every direction i can imagine and at the end I'm still not sure. I was thinking on a NU6000 for a pair of STX812m which are some very good sounding wedges but power hungry. At 400.00 dollars the amp is almost a throw away but I prefer not to throw away 400 bucks in the first place. Now i'm not sure this amp can put out the power at 8ohms these wedges need. Anyone running this amp on power hungry wedges?
This thread has gone in every direction i can imagine and at the end I'm still not sure. I was thinking on a NU6000 for a pair of STX812m which are some very good sounding wedges but power hungry. At 400.00 dollars the amp is almost a throw away but I prefer not to throw away 400 bucks in the first place. Now i'm not sure this amp can put out the power at 8ohms these wedges need. Anyone running this amp on power hungry wedges?
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
If you can't hear the red light, and don't mind seeing the red light.....
We've got a bunch of SRX712m, with the same reputation of "power hungry." I'm not buying that. Passive, we use 1 channel of an XTi 4000. Biamped we use 1 XTi per mix. We don't put lots of bass guitar or kick drum in them. But they're screaming loud getting 200w. Not a 200w amp at full tilt clipping, but 200w from an amp that clips at 400w/ch/8ohm.
I think one reason folks think these are power hungry is because they are power (heat) tolerant. Whether or not there is any additional SPL to be had for the extra electricity depends on power compression... but it's pretty darn hard to fry these when operated by sane, sober adults.
If you can't hear the red light, and don't mind seeing the red light.....
We've got a bunch of SRX712m, with the same reputation of "power hungry." I'm not buying that. Passive, we use 1 channel of an XTi 4000. Biamped we use 1 XTi per mix. We don't put lots of bass guitar or kick drum in them. But they're screaming loud getting 200w. Not a 200w amp at full tilt clipping, but 200w from an amp that clips at 400w/ch/8ohm.
I think one reason folks think these are power hungry is because they are power (heat) tolerant. Whether or not there is any additional SPL to be had for the extra electricity depends on power compression... but it's pretty darn hard to fry these when operated by sane, sober adults.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Travis - I have 8 SRX-712m wedges I have been running full range for the last couple of years. I initially used Crest Pro9200s, very nice sound, plenty loud, etc. When the NU6000 first came available last year I bought one with the possibility of replacing the Crests, to lighten the rack, free up some bucks. I a-b'd the amps before a gig with mic and playback, and the sound was slightly "crisper" in the mids & highs with the Behringer, and got more than loud enough without any limiting in the amp. I used the amp on 2 mixes, great results that night so I did another 6 weeks or so to make sure it looked stable. I then bought 3 more NU6ks and have used them since, rock solid, great sound, blow cold air all through any show. I thoroughly endorse these FOR THE PURPOSE I have used them. Technology marches on, and those who think power amps (or digital mixers...) can't follow the pricing trends of, say, computers, is being short sighted. Just because it's a "budget" amp doesn't mean it can't meet your needs. As always, demo one or more amps, make up your mind. -Tim T
Travis - I have 8 SRX-712m wedges I have been running full range for the last couple of years. I initially used Crest Pro9200s, very nice sound, plenty loud, etc. When the NU6000 first came available last year I bought one with the possibility of replacing the Crests, to lighten the rack, free up some bucks. I a-b'd the amps before a gig with mic and playback, and the sound was slightly "crisper" in the mids & highs with the Behringer, and got more than loud enough without any limiting in the amp. I used the amp on 2 mixes, great results that night so I did another 6 weeks or so to make sure it looked stable. I then bought 3 more NU6ks and have used them since, rock solid, great sound, blow cold air all through any show. I thoroughly endorse these FOR THE PURPOSE I have used them. Technology marches on, and those who think power amps (or digital mixers...) can't follow the pricing trends of, say, computers, is being short sighted. Just because it's a "budget" amp doesn't mean it can't meet your needs. As always, demo one or more amps, make up your mind. -Tim T
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Try a crest cc5500 and see if it works out, I've been looking at this amp a little bit.
Try a crest cc5500 and see if it works out, I've been looking at this amp a little bit.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
Dang , all I needed was for Tim Weaver to respond and I think that would take care of the Tims. Mr. McCulloch, so formal , I currently run a GPS 2600 on them that is 620 watts at 8ohm and I am in full DDT. I dont like putting anything but vocals and acoustic instruments in wedges but if the artist wants kick they get it or what ever it takes to makes them happy. I try to run my boxes as close to the program ratings as I can so at 1600 watts program I'd say 600w is a little underpowered. I bet they start to wake up around 1200 watts and that would double the wattage.
Tim Tyler, thats what I was looking for someone else to try them first. lol I just couldnt pull the trigger on a Behringer amp and was leaning towards the CS4080 but I will give one a shot and see how it goes and if it goes well I will get more.
Thanks guys
Dang , all I needed was for Tim Weaver to respond and I think that would take care of the Tims. Mr. McCulloch, so formal , I currently run a GPS 2600 on them that is 620 watts at 8ohm and I am in full DDT. I dont like putting anything but vocals and acoustic instruments in wedges but if the artist wants kick they get it or what ever it takes to makes them happy. I try to run my boxes as close to the program ratings as I can so at 1600 watts program I'd say 600w is a little underpowered. I bet they start to wake up around 1200 watts and that would double the wattage.
Tim Tyler, thats what I was looking for someone else to try them first. lol I just couldnt pull the trigger on a Behringer amp and was leaning towards the CS4080 but I will give one a shot and see how it goes and if it goes well I will get more.
Thanks guys
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
If I had to have a amp that weighs 47lbs I would take the Peavey CS4080, it puts out a bit more but dosent do 2ohm or 4ohm bridge. I dont do either so it works for me and I get them for 970.00 after ttl. Next thing in the class size cost about 600.00+ for saving 20lbs. Although the XTI6002 has a dsp built in, I dont need it. Now if Crown had a dumb XTI 6002 for about 1200. map then I would move that way.
If I had to have a amp that weighs 47lbs I would take the Peavey CS4080, it puts out a bit more but dosent do 2ohm or 4ohm bridge. I dont do either so it works for me and I get them for 970.00 after ttl. Next thing in the class size cost about 600.00+ for saving 20lbs. Although the XTI6002 has a dsp built in, I dont need it. Now if Crown had a dumb XTI 6002 for about 1200. map then I would move that way.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
For a few hundred more, you can get the Pro 9200 used which would probably be a better way to go.
For a few hundred more, you can get the Pro 9200 used which would probably be a better way to go.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I have 3 9200's now and 9 8200's. 9200's don't pop up as often as 8200's.. I'm just wondering how the cc5500 is, problem is its heavy.
I've seen cc 5500's for $799 on ebay, wonder if you still get a 5 year warrenty from a ebay purchace?
I have 3 9200's now and 9 8200's. 9200's don't pop up as often as 8200's.. I'm just wondering how the cc5500 is, problem is its heavy.
I've seen cc 5500's for $799 on ebay, wonder if you still get a 5 year warrenty from a ebay purchace?
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I dont see 9200 s come up that often and when they do they are usualy in the price range of a new XTi 6002 and if I saved a bit more I could get used Itech's . None of wich cost 400.00 like the nu6000 so I believe I will go that route at least once to see if it is worth getting more or a more expensive amp.
I dont see 9200 s come up that often and when they do they are usualy in the price range of a new XTi 6002 and if I saved a bit more I could get used Itech's . None of wich cost 400.00 like the nu6000 so I believe I will go that route at least once to see if it is worth getting more or a more expensive amp.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
I don't recall anyone asking me for a visit to Behringer what so ever but anyway. We have been watching the AMP again this morning and it seems to reset itself itself at almost exactly every 5 minute interval. I have asked Sound House JP to give me a swap for an EP 4000. I can make do with that as long as it doesn't shut down. Anyone out there have a feeling we would have the same problem with the EP 4000? Sound House is wiiling to make the swap but the only problem is there is no country stock. For like 2 months! I really wish BR would understand our issue with the NU6 and just rush us the EP 4000. The NU6 is brand new maybe 12 weeks with us, fixed once, now it even seems worse than before. Really needed the NU6 this for tomorrow but it not going to happen. Really frustrated here.
I don't recall anyone asking me for a visit to Behringer what so ever but anyway. We have been watching the AMP again this morning and it seems to reset itself itself at almost exactly every 5 minute interval. I have asked Sound House JP to give me a swap for an EP 4000. I can make do with that as long as it doesn't shut down. Anyone out there have a feeling we would have the same problem with the EP 4000? Sound House is wiiling to make the swap but the only problem is there is no country stock. For like 2 months! I really wish BR would understand our issue with the NU6 and just rush us the EP 4000. The NU6 is brand new maybe 12 weeks with us, fixed once, now it even seems worse than before. Really needed the NU6 this for tomorrow but it not going to happen. Really frustrated here.
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
So far we have a he-said vs. he-said... both can't be correct. "Two men enter the test area one walks out, head held high... .
or not...
JR
It might be interesting to see that same amp put under load at another location with different power and different speakers. Sound House is a pretty big dealer they probably have that capability. Wouldn't you like to find out why?
So far we have a he-said vs. he-said... both can't be correct. "Two men enter the test area one walks out, head held high... .
or not...
JR
Re: Behringer iNUKE NU6000 amplifier
A quick check list.
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pd...tus/powerquality/checklist-web-august2007.pdf
Get something like this or similar
ACScout Products4
A quick check list.
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pd...tus/powerquality/checklist-web-august2007.pdf
Get something like this or similar
ACScout Products4