60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - AKA PM60

[Max Warasila]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Pre Menstrual 69 :blush::blush::blush:

SORRY - but temptation was SOOOOOOOOOOO big I simply could not resist :lol::lol::lol:

Timo, you've made me laugh for the first time on a really crappy day! :lol: Thank you very much.

In other news, now that I've made it past tech week, I am pleased to announce that I have finished what will become my final design of the box - lots of interlocking parts with routed channels, just because I can and it makes assembly a snap (literally):


It's actually missing the cutout for the pole mount, but I'll get there. It has interchangeable horn baffles, a full length grille, measures at 931x398x455 and will weigh roughly 80 lbs. Most of the parts and materials have come in - except the drivers, of course. I also accidentally got excited and decided I was going to work on a double 18 cab and a wireless mic rack in addition - neither of which will contain any gear, of course; I just got into building with ply a bit too much. Ah well, even if I'm spending a bit more money than I'd like to, it's an improvement over my sin from earlier this year:

I've since learned how to measure. :roll:

The only thing I don't have worked out yet is how to power the darn things. I don't think I'll be able to afford anything worth getting, but I'll see what I can come up with. It's not like I'm building two, anyway - so, ultimately, what's the point? :?~:-?~:???:

More updates and possibly a real, trap box version if I get excited in the coming days!

 

[Don J Davis]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Max, fantastic work! Mine came in very close to 80lbs. Can I suggest you wait until you have all the components loaded in the cabinet then determine the center of gravity and then locate your pole mount and handles on the same vertical plane. The COG ends up closer to the rear of the box due to the placement of the 12's.

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Max, fantastic work! Mine came in very close to 80lbs. Can I suggest you wait until you have all the components loaded in the cabinet then determine the center of gravity and then locate your pole mount and handles on the same vertical plane. The COG ends up closer to the rear of the box due to the placement of the 12's.

The forums ate my last answer so:

Thanks! Inventor tells me the COG, I just don't know if the handles will fit elsewhere appropriately. I'm doing all this pre design work so I can construct the box very easily later on, so I'd prefer to cut them out when I do the grill routes on the side.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

The forums ate my last answer so:

Thanks! Inventor tells me the COG, I just don't know if the handles will fit elsewhere appropriately. I'm doing all this pre design work so I can construct the box very easily later on, so I'd prefer to cut them out when I do the grill routes on the side.

The pole mount will be about 200mm from the back of the box i.e. COG.

The handles have to be located so that you can still get the 12" drivers in and out. I located mine in the bottom half of the box to make it easier for one person the carry the box without the bottom of box with out it hitting their legs.

 

[Timo Ulkuniemi]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

The pole mount will be about 200mm from the back of the box i.e. COG.

The handles have to be located so that you can still get the 12" drivers in and out. I located mine in the bottom half of the box to make it easier for one person the carry the box without the bottom of box with out it hitting their legs.

Hello

Having handles at COG is fine in my book, too. But since most of time these speakers should be tilted in order to have use of energy going up, the pole mount should be tiltable and front of COG or perhaps have double pole mounts.

My two euro-cents ...

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Hello

Having handles at COG is fine in my book, too. But since most of time these speakers should be tilted in order to have use of energy going up, the pole mount should be tiltable and front of COG or perhaps have double pole mounts.

My two euro-cents ...

I posted this picture earlier - I also wanted to make a yoke like this so I could make the tilt angle variable. To do that you need to leave the centre of the box clear, unlike the T24N i.e. no handles at the side mounting points.

 

[Don J Davis]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

The pole mount will be about 200mm from the back of the box i.e. COG.

Mine measures 200mm from the back of the box as well.

 

[Rick Powell]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Hello

Having handles at COG is fine in my book, too. But since most of time these speakers should be tilted in order to have use of energy going up, the pole mount should be tiltable and front of COG or perhaps have double pole mounts.

My two euro-cents ...

Or use one of these...no yoke or special mount needed.

http://bt-12.com/about.php

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Or use one of these...no yoke or special mount needed.

http://bt-12.com/about.php

Yes, that's a nice piece. A bit pricey for me though, and as I remember, it doesn't accommodate the vertical height of the diy's COG.
I'm kinda with Timo...need two mount locations...so I'm going with external threaded inserts in the bottom, to allow fastening homemade plates for straight up or tilt in their correct locations

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Yes, that's a nice piece. A bit pricey for me though, and as I remember, it doesn't accommodate the vertical height of the diy's COG.
I'm kinda with Timo...need two mount locations...so I'm going with external threaded inserts in the bottom, to allow fastening homemade plates for straight up or tilt in their correct locations

+1 ... the max CoG is 14" the diy is 18" ... but it does look nice

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

So another option I've been looking at is the possibility of making a powered version. The most obvious choice to me is the PWR-DSP3 from DSP4YOU/MiniDSP/Pascal. Most of the power outputs are right on par with the requirements of the DIY from what I'm reading, it allows for all the DSP processing, and only adds about 6kg of weight (not ideal, but it's not crazy compared to an amp rack). The main issue I'm foreseeing is where to put the damn thing - it's actually rather large and won't fit horizontally within the box.

Opinions, anyone? I skimmed through the previous pages of these threads in the past, and don't recall seeing this, but I could be beating a dead horse, so let me know.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

So another option I've been looking at is the possibility of making a powered version. The most obvious choice to me is the PWR-DSP3 from DSP4YOU/MiniDSP/Pascal. Most of the power outputs are right on par with the requirements of the DIY from what I'm reading, it allows for all the DSP processing, and only adds about 6kg of weight (not ideal, but it's not crazy compared to an amp rack). The main issue I'm foreseeing is where to put the damn thing - it's actually rather large and won't fit horizontally within the box.

Opinions, anyone? I skimmed through the previous pages of these threads in the past, and don't recall seeing this, but I could be beating a dead horse, so let me know.

I think the extra sized and weight needed for a power amp module would make the box to big and heavy to be a speaker on a stick ... your mileage may be different.

As much as I would like to be able to build a powered version, I feel like I have already pushed things to the practical limit.

If I was designing something that didn’t need to be stick mounted I would have taken a slightly different approach. I would have made the horn longer and the mouth bigger and tried to find even more SPL and quality.

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

So another option I've been looking at is the possibility of making a powered version. The most obvious choice to me is the PWR-DSP3 from DSP4YOU/MiniDSP/Pascal. Most of the power outputs are right on par with the requirements of the DIY from what I'm reading, it allows for all the DSP processing, and only adds about 6kg of weight (not ideal, but it's not crazy compared to an amp rack). The main issue I'm foreseeing is where to put the damn thing - it's actually rather large and won't fit horizontally within the box.

Opinions, anyone? I skimmed through the previous pages of these threads in the past, and don't recall seeing this, but I could be beating a dead horse, so let me know.

Hi Max, at the small operator level, I kinda think of it in terms of what can one man do alone, what can two men do alone....., etc....

For a one man box, I think Peter has optimized better than anything I've seen.....that's why i built em 8)~~
For me, one man means something in the 75lb camp, with a size that isn't too unwieldy.

If I were going to cross this theshhold, I figure might as well go to 2 man cause I can't move it easy enough anymore...... say up to 150lb.....but I'd definitely want twice the perforance of my 1 man.

Soooo....if I was going to add a plate amp to the DIY, I'd want to see if I could fully horn load the mid section down to 80-100hz without ports, and also see if there is a HF/VHF horn with more spl and the same quality.....and at least at 90 degree or wider pattern...

Otherwise, I wouldn't do anything to the DIY except try to make minor tweaks to the cabinet, lighten it if possible, and play with IIR/FIR...etc

 

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

So another option I've been looking at is the possibility of making a powered version. The most obvious choice to me is the PWR-DSP3 from DSP4YOU/MiniDSP/Pascal. Most of the power outputs are right on par with the requirements of the DIY from what I'm reading, it allows for all the DSP processing, and only adds about 6kg of weight (not ideal, but it's not crazy compared to an amp rack). The main issue I'm foreseeing is where to put the damn thing - it's actually rather large and won't fit horizontally within the box.

Opinions, anyone? I skimmed through the previous pages of these threads in the past, and don't recall seeing this, but I could be beating a dead horse, so let me know.

I'd leave the top passive, and perhaps build the required amplification and processing into a companion sub. OTOH, is a 30lb 2-space amp rack really that much of a hassle?

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

I'd leave the top passive, and perhaps build the required amplification and processing into a companion sub. OTOH, is a 30lb 2-space amp rack really that much of a hassle?

Yes! Amp racks are terrible atrocities designed to aggressively remove intravertabral disc tissue and must be spurned from the earth. /sarcasm

If I'm honest with myself I don't see the point in adding a plate amp after reading what you've all said. I'm just toying with the ideas because I'm forgetting how much time Peter has already put into the same exact thoughts. :roll:

Not to mention a companion sub would be a 4x18 with thousands of watts of power so... not practical in the slightest.

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Hi Max, at the small operator level, I kinda think of it in terms of what can one man do alone, what can two men do alone....., etc....

For a one man box, I think Peter has optimized better than anything I've seen.....that's why i built em 8)~~
For me, one man means something in the 75lb camp, with a size that isn't too unwieldy.

If I were going to cross this theshhold, I figure might as well go to 2 man cause I can't move it easy enough anymore...... say up to 150lb.....but I'd definitely want twice the perforance of my 1 man.

Soooo....if I was going to add a plate amp to the DIY, I'd want to see if I could fully horn load the mid section down to 80-100hz without ports, and also see if there is a HF/VHF horn with more spl and the same quality.....and at least at 90 degree or wider pattern...

Otherwise, I wouldn't do anything to the DIY except try to make minor tweaks to the cabinet, lighten it if possible, and play with IIR/FIR...etc

That was exactly my logic. I wanted one person in a van to be able to do what would normally take two people and a small truck; and I wanted it to sound better than anything else out there.

E.g. a couple of DIY mid / highs, a couple of double 21’s, 6 to 8 Smithers wedges, some 1 RU or 4 channel amps with DSP (I'm using Powersoft K series and M series for fold back) and an Allen & Heath GLD 80 with a digital core (or similar).

I wanted to be able to expand on that with 2 x 60 degree boxes a side with twice as many subs, or just use 1 x 60 degree box if I had a long skinny room that required a narrow pattern

I also wanted to be able to fly the boxes, perhaps with a couple of small to medium lighting stands (125 kgs) and some light weight truss...

 

[Don J Davis]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

I wanted to be able to expand on that with 2 x 60 degree boxes a side with twice as many subs, or just use 1 x 60 degree box if I had a long skinny room that required a narrow pattern
I also wanted to be able to fly the boxes, perhaps with a couple of small to medium lighting stands (125 kgs) and some light weight truss...

This, plus having the flexibility of changing the horns to 90 deg as needed has established these as my go to boxes for small to medium events I do. So much so I'm going to start work on a second set so I can deploy 2 a side when needed.

 

[Jeff Babcock]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Peter, I made this thread a sticky. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

 

[Rick Powell]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

E.g. a couple of DIY mid / highs, a couple of double 21’s, 6 to 8 Smithers wedges, some 1 RU or 4 channel amps with DSP (I'm using Powersoft K series and M series for fold back) and an Allen & Heath GLD 80 with a digital core (or similar).

Speaking of double 21's, two of these a side might do the trick.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/193418-othorn-tapped-horn.html

I've never heard a set, but they model well and are also presented at inventor Josh Ricci's sub comparison website.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=81

 

[Peter Morris]

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - They need a name ?

Speaking of double 21's, two of these a side might do the trick.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/193418-othorn-tapped-horn.html

I've never heard a set, but they model well and are also presented at inventor Josh Ricci's sub comparison website.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=81

I have had a look at that design and a few others ... It looks good but its not that simple. It depends on what compromise you want including box size & weight, does it integrate with you other speakers / hire inventory, does it truck pack and does it provide a good base to stack the DIY Mid High on etc ... not to mention sonic performance ~~:smile:

BTW, Don & Mark ... how are your boxes going. I have made one small change to my settings for the 60 degree box raising the crossover point from 600Hz to 630Hz.

Plots are for a double 21 @ 2000w input