60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - AKA PM60

Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Max Warasila said:
Funny you mention this - I'm trying to finally get a working box done this week. I tried a while back and ended up with a lopsided failure due to all sorts of errors, but I'm feeling much more confident this time!
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Kudos for trying again.

The hard part was not, by any means, the design of the box itself. I didn't cut the back corners and I didn't include a side panel. I did include a removable front horn baffle and a clever sort of grill to keep things interesting and utilitarian.
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3D CAD can give an illusion of being able to build many more widgets than real fabrication techniques allow.

What was incredibly difficult, however, was learning and figuring out how to make the design of the box. The reality is that it's nearly impossible to CNC route angles
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It can be done with angled cutter head tools or multi-axis machines. It is challenging on a typical 2.5 axis machine, and any non-standard angle can result in needing to fabricate cutter heads.

If you wish to bother me about drawings, I can most certainly draw and get my version to you. The issue with the version I have right now is that it's in Inventor. Great tool - doesn't play well with ANYTHING!!!
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Try A360 (more mature) or Onshape (will eventually be awesome for those coming from SolidWorks).
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Phil Graham said:
Kudos for trying again.



3D CAD can give an illusion of being able to build many more widgets than real fabrication techniques allow.



It can be done with angled cutter head tools or multi-axis machines. It is challenging on a typical 2.5 axis machine, and any non-standard angle can result in needing to fabricate cutter heads.



Try A360 (more mature) or Onshape (will eventually be awesome for those coming from SolidWorks).
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FWIW this is what I used (similar) for the DIY Mid / Hi build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BPkQAY7ZM
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Peter Morris said:
FWIW this is what I used (similar) for the DIY Mid / Hi build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BPkQAY7ZM
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Most of my parts are slightly over sized because I was using the table saw by hand and eye... not always my most coordinated body parts. Got the biggest CNC parts finished today. Working through my CAM software for the rest of the parts tonight. Will probably have this thing finished within the month, if all goes to plan. But since it won't, no promises! :roll:

Phil Graham said:
Kudos for trying again.

...

3D CAD can give an illusion of being able to build many more widgets than real fabrication techniques allow.

...

It can be done with angled cutter head tools or multi-axis machines. It is challenging on a typical 2.5 axis machine, and any non-standard angle can result in needing to fabricate cutter heads.

...

Try A360 (more mature) or Onshape (will eventually be awesome for those coming from SolidWorks).
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On the mark, as always, Phil. It's been one hell of a learning experience, and I haven't even started messing with the DSP settings and such yet! I'll have to find someone's copy of SMAART to borrow first, though. Or maybe I'll just pull out an old laptop and download the trial version, I dunno.
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

I have a Robland z250 table saw, essentially just the same thing as Peter mentioned. Saws like these and a good router and a good cutting list should be all that’s needed to do a perfect job of a box like this. Although for those with out these tools or are lessor skilled in this area, certainly the cnc rout is attractive.
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Max Warasila said:
I haven't even started messing with the DSP settings and such yet! I'll have to find someone's copy of SMAART to borrow first, though. Or maybe I'll just pull out an old laptop and download the trial version, I dunno.
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I've had decent results with HolmImpulse for fooling around with DSP settings in a controlled environment. If you've already got some basic measurement hardware, the price is certainly right.
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Max Warasila said:
Most of my parts are slightly over sized because I was using the table saw by hand and eye... not always my most coordinated body parts.
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I wouldn't sweat it too much, Max. Wood has eyewateringly sloppy tolerances and thermal expansion behavior. Personally, I went from precision machining to working with sheet metal, where a very good tolerance is +/- 10mils per bend. And wood is even sloppier than that.
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

One of the best tool discoveries I've ever made has been a circular plunge (track) saw. I got the Makita one with a 55" rail ($350), and liked it so much I sprung for the 118" rail for cutting 8 ft stock. ($220)
Get two saw horses, put a 4x8 piece of sheeting on top of them to make a table, and then put a 4x8 piece of 1 inch thick rigid insulation on that for the saw blade to penetrate. (Less than $50 total.)

So help me, this setup can easily hold true to 1/32" over a full 8 ft cut. I grew up on a table saw, but this setup is sooooo much nicer for all but the most simple repetitive cuts....unless of course you have one of the big saws discussed above...
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Phil Graham said:
I wouldn't sweat it too much, Max. Wood has eyewateringly sloppy tolerances and thermal expansion behavior. Personally, I went from precision machining to working with sheet metal, where a very good tolerance is +/- 10mils per bend. And wood is even sloppier than that.
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Oh my.

What I meant was that I intentionally over sized some of the pieces so that if I was off I'd have extra and not too little, so now that I've been testing out the parts I have to shave off the extra bits to get everything to fit right. Either way, I can still fudge most of them into the places I'd like them so I totally see your point.
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Peter Morris said:
The DIYs playing softly ...
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Hi Peter, that's one lucky cat!

Just wanted to touch base and say I feel like i've been making alot of progress learning to tune the DIY.
It's getting easier to get timing and phase down, as I play with different x-over types/slopes.
The DIY seems unusually responsive to EQ....very subtle adjustments are clearly heard.

On the whole, I'm hearing vocals, rhythms, and transients like I've only heard from headphones and electrostatics. With dynamics and bass !!!! And LOUD :lol:

PS thx for your help re smaart on the other board
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Mark Wilkinson said:
Hi Peter, that's one lucky cat!

Just wanted to touch base and say I feel like i've been making alot of progress learning to tune the DIY.
It's getting easier to get timing and phase down, as I play with different x-over types/slopes.
The DIY seems unusually responsive to EQ....very subtle adjustments are clearly heard.

On the whole, I'm hearing vocals, rhythms, and transients like I've only heard from headphones and electrostatics. With dynamics and bass !!!! And LOUD :lol:

PS thx for your help re smaart on the other board
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Hi Mark,

It’s great to hear someone else is getting results like that. Its till amazes me how loud these things go and stay so clear and clean.

We did a very difficult room last night with the 60 degree box and the new double 21 subs; is basically I think what you would call a bar band venue, but this time it was presold tickets for a national level act starting their national tour. They are doing a bunch of small venues instead of one big show … +1 for a great Oz band, Thirsty Merc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirsty_Merc

After the show the promoter informs me that is was the best sound they had ever had in that venue, and post accordingly on face book. The engineer has request the system again tonight for the next venue instead to the normal in house system ... the beginning of rider acceptance … :)~:)~:smile::roll:
 

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Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Fantastic Peter! That does look like a tough room with the tops almost touching the ceiling. Seems that would have been a potential HF nightmare with a traditional 2 way box with the horn on top.
The 21" subs might be in my future. I was checking out the B&C 21"s Bennett had at his booth.
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Peter Morris said:
Hi Mark,

It’s great to hear someone else is getting results like that. Its till amazes me how loud these things go and stay so clear and clean.

After the show the promoter informs me that is was the best sound they had ever had in that venue, and post accordingly on face book. The engineer has request the system again tonight for the next venue instead to the normal in house system ... the beginning of rider acceptance … :)~:)~:smile::roll:
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Congrats, Peter!

Have you done any distortion testing to see how clean the DIY actually is?
I'm especially interested in the HD of the mid driver around 700 Hz compared to the cone drivers- the manufacturer's HD charts at 1 watt (on a different horn than you are using) don't tell a lot about rock and roll levels!

Thanks,
Art
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Awesome Peter!, so glad to hear you and others are having such a good time with your designs...

You know, I hate to sound like a zealous dork, the kind that always talks about whatever their latest acquisition is, being the best so far...
But at least i know that's just not the case ...I'm lucky/blessed enough to have some other good gear by anybody's standards, .......to compare with...

I really wish a bunch of folks would build the DIY... cause simply said, IT ROCKS :)
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Peter Morris said:
... is basically I think what you would call a bar band venue...
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WAY too much natural light to be a bar band venue (at least, from my experience!).

But, congrats on another successful real-world test of the DIY. I wouldn't mind having a quad of those myself (along with the dual 21's).

Dave
 
Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi

Jelmer de Jong said:
How did you convince the engineer in the first place? Link to this forum?
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Trust :roll:- I’m reasonably well know in my part of the world and have had quite a bit of success especially with my subs over the years … my subs (design) have be used for large concerts (up to 20,000) and by many international acts, probably the most well know (especially for high SPL bass) was the Prodigy.

I’m also known for my work in developing the FIR settingsfor Turbo’s Sound Flex Array and my input into EAW KF750 horn resonance issues and some of the Gunness Focus settings.
 
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