60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - AKA PM60
- Thread starter Peter Morris
- Start date
I was checking the frequency response graphs for the 4592 and the 4594HE and i fail to see how the 5494HE is improvement at all. It has the worst response of them all.
Yes the frequency response is not as flat, but the distortion is less, something I wanted to minimise and could not fix with DSP.
The problem with 4592 is matching it with a horn that will fit in the DIY while having a low cut off frequency and good pattern control … and that is readily available i.e. RCF HF950.
If you can suggest some other options that I may have missed please let me know.
BTW I will be interested to see your new Axyos One & Two and your Erigon HD line array :razz:
Hi Peter, I've heard that the 18 sound 12ND610 is being suggested as a good fit for the DIY's. http://www.eighteensound.com/Products/Articles/Detail/catid/4050/eid/3380/12nd610
If you get a chance, could you model it and tell what you think?
Many Thanks, Mark
If you get a chance, could you model it and tell what you think?
Many Thanks, Mark
The 12ND610 will work very well in the DIY and produce almost exactly the same frequency response and efficiency as the RCF, the only issue is the RCF is rated at 1300w program and has an Xmax of 5.5mm, compared to the 18sound - 700W and 3.5mm.
The diagram is both speakers' power response at their rated program power. Note that both will exceed their Xmax at 100Hz however if you allow for a 100Hz 24 dB LR crossover they both should be OK. (limited on the input before the crossover)
BTW how is everybody going with their boxes? Hopefully getting some great results
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Peter, thank you Sir !!
I'm finally getting around to building 4 more 60 degrees, and setting my existing 2 convertible boxes to permanent 90 duty.
Can't begin to tell you how much I enjoy their sound and output, and how much I've learned about tuning working with the DIYs,
I'm finally getting around to building 4 more 60 degrees, and setting my existing 2 convertible boxes to permanent 90 duty.
Can't begin to tell you how much I enjoy their sound and output, and how much I've learned about tuning working with the DIYs,
Hi Jason, there is something wrong with my messaging - I sent you a PM, but I don't know if you received it (?)
Sorry I cant read it at the moment - I just get this message "There has been a database error, and the current page cannot be displayed. Site staff have been notified."
Its okay ill do a small write-up in here.
So after taking the DIYPM60s out for a few times we noticed that there was significantly less low-mid output than we liked and was trying to identify the cause.. This weekend changed out the wiring that goes from dbx 360 to camcos from canarie XLR wires to Kirlin XLR cable. Made a night and day difference and now we are getting the low mid pressure and musical energy that we were expecting from this build. The boxes sound 70% more dynamic and smooth...
So after taking the DIYPM60s out for a few times we noticed that there was significantly less low-mid output than we liked and was trying to identify the cause.. This weekend changed out the wiring that goes from dbx 360 to camcos from canarie XLR wires to Kirlin XLR cable. Made a night and day difference and now we are getting the low mid pressure and musical energy that we were expecting from this build. The boxes sound 70% more dynamic and smooth...
That's great news Jason. I suspect it was more than the cable type ... but its working now
~~:smile:
That's great news Jason. I suspect it was more than the cable type ... but its working now
So again we purposely changed nothing else but the cable. Night and day difference. I was never a believer before but we have A/B'd a few cables now and each of them come with pros and cons depending on where and how they are used.. And the DIYPM60s are even more sensitive to these small changes..
I'd be curious as to the measured functionality of the cable that was replaced. A one-legged cable, for example, could easily cause an audible difference.
Perhaps a fault in the DBX output or the Amp's input. It does sound like there has been some type of one-legged issue, not necessarily in the cable, but the capacitance of the different cables were giving a different outcomes.
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If i had to describe it soncially, it was like a hp filter was enabled on the canare wires. This was replicated both on camcos and powersoft amps coming from the DBX. Very weird.
Weird indeed!
Was the Canare star-quad, it has typically about twice the capacitance and half the inductance of your normal 2 conductor cables? Even so, under normal circumstances the sound should be exactly the same.
The only thing you have not changed is the DBX ?
Was the Canare star-quad, it has typically about twice the capacitance and half the inductance of your normal 2 conductor cables? Even so, under normal circumstances the sound should be exactly the same.
The only thing you have not changed is the DBX ?
Canare regular cable. The only thing we changed was the canare to kirlin cable from DBX outputs to the amp inputs.. Everything else remained the same..
And, many months later...
To all of you that have repeatedly asked and encouraged me to provide these plans, pricing for flat packs, and for Helge in particular who has been kindly waiting for me to be ready to build him a pair for nearly a year now: thank you for your patience.
I'd like to start by saying that creating plans for these speakers would have been easier literally any other way than I decided to go about making them. The plotted layouts are not supremely easy to read nor perfectly clear, but I have managed to get everything to line up correctly according to the most prolific plans before these created by Don quite a while back. While I would certainly like to have done a better job, things that you will find in this current edition of the plans are:
- Baffle dimensions and angles that are even millimeter or degree measurements.
- Cutouts for feet, H1024 handles, and a Penn-Elcom M1557/M20 pole mount for all use cases.
- STX NL8 cutouts.
- Bracing system based off a single central piece.
- Simplified 12" baffle design for less crazy parts construction (no moutains or spacers).
- Foam damping for the Modern Era™
- A real-life grille design (though I'm still unsure of how I'm going to build it, if I'm honest.)
- A STANDARD SET OF MEASUREMENTS FOR BAFFLES AND CABINET THAT WILL WORK FOR ANY DRIVER OR HORN COMBINATION. (This was a huge issue in the past, and now it's solved!)
For those of you who have asked me about flat packs - yes, I can indeed create a flat pack for you. I will note that in the past, I had some trouble getting the baffles to fit into the CNC routed dado pockets, but I will resolve that this time around and test fit your pieces before sending them to you. I can work in other options for you, such as other handle types, if you wish. I can also build you the speakers if you desire.
As far as flat pack pricing, the most it would cost is 600 USD per pair. For a complete, furnished pair, I'd say that number is about 3000USD per pair, drivers and all. As it stands, I recall having several people interested in the flat packs, and if I do more of them, the price will drop. Please email me if you are interested, rather than using a PM here on SoundForums. It's just going to be easier for me to keep up with and check daily.
NOTICE - As of September 3, 2019, I have been informed that the H1024 pattern that I've used is incorrect. None of the screw holes are in the correct place, though the profile is correct. I will remove this notice when I have corrected the drawings. For now, please correct to your chosen handle type.
These are the dropbox links for the current .dwg and .pdf files. I will always keep these public facing ones as updated as possible if I make changes in the future, so check revision numbers and publication dates if you're wondering about a newer version.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h16is6mbjig6fcy/pm90_current.pdf?dl=0
AutoCAD Drawing (.dwg)
This has been quite a journey, from not knowing a darn thing about building cabinets to having these plans in a somewhat presentable format. Next project: something simpler!
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