Behringer line array

Re: Behringer line array

Eric Cagle said:
Maybe it will be worth the wait. The X32 was. It is interesting seeing this thread almost a year after the last post I made on it (see above). I actually would be willing to give the line array a try now when it is released and when the prices stabilize.
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+1, Behringer's slightly cheesy little tag line seems to have at least a little bit of truth to it. I'm loving my X32, and will definitely be giving this line array at least a listen when/if it becomes possible to do so.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Dear all,

thank you for your comments.

We would like to give you some feedback why the ELX market introduction has been delayed.

As you might be aware, the MUSIC Group recently acquired the prestigious UK loudspeaker company TURBOSOUND.

Since we acquired not only a famous brand, but more important some of the world's best acoustic and system engineers who designed the award-winning Flashline Line Array, we felt it was a great opportunity to have the Turbosound R&D engineers re-evaluate and re-design the Behringer ELX Line Arrays.

While this has caused some delay, we are sure the wait is worth it as we will be releasing a much improved product.

Thank you for your patience.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: Behringer line array

Now THAT should make this get really interesting............ If the R&D benefits of Midas acquisition on the X32 are any indicator, this new product line is likely to be worth auditioning. How about some FIR based DSP to go with that? :D~:-D~:grin:
 
Re: Behringer line array

Jeff Babcock said:
Now THAT should make this get really interesting............ If the R&D benefits of Midas acquisition on the X32 are any indicator, this new product line is likely to be worth auditioning. How about some FIR based DSP to go with that? :D~:-D~:grin:
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They won't make a product that competes with Turbo. The X32 is cool, but it isn't Midas-league. I don't see us ever using it, but am expecting simply something that is around Versarray level.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Caleb Dick said:
They won't make a product that competes with Turbo. The X32 is cool, but it isn't Midas-league. I don't see us ever using it, but am expecting simply something that is around Versarray level.
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Of course they won't rob Turbo's sales. I do expect though that it will be in a very different league from any previous speaker products they have made before. They'll be shooting for the same target market as they did with the X32 - churches, small theaters, bars, small sound operators, etc. Given the competition is stiffer and broader in the speaker cabinet world, I can't see them doing something as "game changing" as the X32 has been, but nevertheless expect they will likely be a lot better than people would like to admit. Time will tell.
 
I have notice that with each company acquired, Mr. Behringer has talked mostly about the engineering talent acquired with those companies. That does suggest a business model based on developing new products, which I perceive as a positive thing.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Uli, I appreciate your responding and follow your logic. Improving the product is admirable but people that use, buy, sell, specify, promote, etc. pro audio products often have to make product commitments or selections in advance and thus must rely on being provided accurate and reliable product information and availability. Products that are delayed in being released, change significantly from what was initially shown or are canceled before release can make things difficult for those people.

Consider someone that based on a product description and availability provided to them for an upcoming product committed to the sale of upcoming products. Or maybe designed or sold a system based on those products or committed to having them for an event. Then imagine what happens when the time to deliver those products, install that system or support that event arrives and the products are not available. Unlike many consumer applications, waiting may not be an option nor does the fact that the products that will eventually be produced may be improved help those situations.

I am not suggesting not taking advantage of your resources to offer the best possible product or not discussing potential future products, however I am suggesting not publicly showing or announcing products until you can also offer reliable and accurate product information and availability.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Brad Weber said:
...however I am suggesting not publicly showing or announcing products until you can also offer reliable and accurate product information and availability.
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The unit of time should be weeks or at most a few months, unless you're running an open source project where you are inviting the world to help you design it.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Brad Weber said:
Uli, I appreciate your responding and follow your logic. Improving the product is admirable but people that use, buy, sell, specify, promote, etc. pro audio products often have to make product commitments or selections in advance and thus must rely on being provided accurate and reliable product information and availability. Products that are delayed in being released, change significantly from what was initially shown or are canceled before release can make things difficult for those people.

Consider someone that based on a product description and availability provided to them for an upcoming product committed to the sale of upcoming products. Or maybe designed or sold a system based on those products or committed to having them for an event. Then imagine what happens when the time to deliver those products, install that system or support that event arrives and the products are not available. Unlike many consumer applications, waiting may not be an option nor does the fact that the products that will eventually be produced may be improved help those situations.

I am not suggesting not taking advantage of your resources to offer the best possible product or not discussing potential future products, however I am suggesting not publicly showing or announcing products until you can also offer reliable and accurate product information and availability.
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Brad
I also think it is ridiculousness that a product that was advertised to be released in 2012 (on their website not just a forum) is just now in December being pushed back to an undisclosed date.

On the other hand i also think it would be a little premature to have included any equipment in a bid to a paying customer that did not have a set initial ship date from the manufacturer. Let alone full spec's available, or have another unit from another manufacturer that would fit the bill, that issue would be on the system designer.

Please don’t take this the wrong way because i noticed your only a few hours from me and being new to GA, I can use all the friends in the business i can get.

I guess for anyone stuck in that position you can look at the TVI stuff.:roll:

Ben
 
Re: Behringer line array

Hello Uli,

I am about to spend a fairly large amount of money on a new rig, I would like to know what are the estimated release date of the new line array and how can we compare it to the RCF HDL boxes, these are the boxes I might buy but I want to take my time (not to much) and wait for the ELX to come out.
Merci,

Othmane
 
Not likely using it - should have mentioned we are Behringer dealers, and that the price point is just too close to other more proven/established options. And that we try not to mis-apply line arrays, such as for small rooms, where Danley/Fulcrum/etc often do better (at lower cost often).

Calling a spade a spade isn't a cheap shot. Back to the vaporware discussion.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Dear Othmane (and all),

thank you for your comment and for considering our products.

As stated earlier, the delivery of the ELX line array has been substantially postponed due to the recent acquisition of Turbosound. The sudden and unexpected access to high-end acoustic engineering resources from Turbosound made us decide to redesign the project.

We understand and apologize that we may have disappointed some customers, however we are not aware of any projects where the ELX product line was designed in and the subsequent delay caused any problems.

It is our company philosophy that we will not compromise on quality and if we have an opportunity to improve a product we will do so even if this means sarificing sales.

The X32 is an example where we deliberately delayed shipping in order to incorporate a new Midas-designed peamp and also an additional six month road test which was concluded with the help of 20 professional rental and install sound companies who "tortured" the product under the toughest road conditions. While no major issues surfaced, it was worth the additonal time and the product was later introduced without any major problems. With over 20,000 units sold to date, it is now the number one selling digital mixing console in the industry.

We are hoping for an equally successful market introduction for the re-designed ELX line array which we have scheduled for a Q1/Q2 re-launch. However since we cannot confirm a definite date, we would recommend you to design-in other products if your project has a critical timeline.

You might also want to look at the Turbosound products which have received highest accolades in the industry. Among many awards, the Flashline line array for example just received the prestigious Queen's Award for Innovation.

Again thank you for your patience and I wish everyone wonderful holidays and a blessed 2013.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: Behringer line array

It is interesting to see the passion pro and con surrounding brands, as if people (besides Uli) identify with that name.

We are watching brand management playing out in real time. Since it would be considered me taking a shot, to point out any subtle misdirection going on, I will limit my post to the obvious (it is Christmas after all).

Uli would be crazy to compete against himself, so expect Behringer and Turbo loudspeaker products to target different customers. I expect the Behringer offerings to go after the mass market (where the money is).

JR
 
Re: Behringer line array

Caleb Dick said:
They won't make a product that competes with Turbo. The X32 is cool, but it isn't Midas-league. I don't see us ever using it, but am expecting simply something that is around Versarray level.
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The thIng is, many shows that require a decent mid sized line array, at least in the promoters mind, don't need Misas league consoles. Fairs, festivals. Block parties.. Any show where rider acceptable consoles are not needed, the X 32 is a lifesaver. IMO. The reason for many of the features of higher end digital consoles is lost in these situations. If I am mixing the X32 has proven to sound better than my old analog setup. Which when new probably cost $30K.
 
Re: Behringer line array

John Roberts said:
Uli would be crazy to compete against himself, so expect Behringer and Turbo loudspeaker products to target different customers. I expect the Behringer offerings to go after the mass market (where the money is).
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Thats conventional thinking, sure. But what if... The ELX really is right up there? Those who need to care about brand names buy Turbo, those who dont buy ELX, and who loses? Everyone else...
 
Re: Behringer line array

David Buckley said:
Thats conventional thinking, sure. But what if... The ELX really is right up there? Those who need to care about brand names buy Turbo, those who dont buy ELX, and who loses? Everyone else...
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Do I really need to explain this? Ignore the man behind the curtain and cover the children's ears.

If Turbo knew how to make LAs both good "and" cheap, they already would have, and they might be the company buying Behringer. :)

Brand management after such a merger involves maximizing the value of both brands. The plausible win-win-win story is that the combination of the two organizations leads to better performing low cost products for the brand servicing the value market thanks to a simple transfer of "high" technology from the premium brand, and lower costs for the premium market brand thanks to similar transfer of manufacturing expertise and purchasing power from the value brand to the premium brand.

In the spirit of Christmas. Yeah, that could happen....


JR
 
Re: Behringer line array

JR, Thanks for reminding me exactly what the conventional thinking I referred to is, I'm pleased to see I've not completely forgotten it.

Despite ample evidence, I believe you (and not just you singular JR, you plural meaninng many people) seriously underestimate the will and capability of the company Mr Behringer has built. The goal is, as they have very publicly stated, to be a "game changer". This isn't about a single mixer. In ten years time the range of manufacturers of mixers will be smaller than it is today. Perhaps much smaller.

Thus I am of the opinion that the Turbo / Behringer speaker thing is not to sell a few more blue and black boxes by swapping value and technology as conventional thinking suggests; I believe the goal is to decimate the speaker market in the same way (but a few years behind) that they will the mixer market.

No one has ever argued about Behringer pricing. Their kit used to be (a lot) less reliable, well, thats been fixed, and now everything has a three year warranty. They used to have awful support, ask folks around here what their support is like these days. So now they are not just "cheap", they are "good value". And the X32 et al indicates that they are making product with sonic qualities well above the price point.

For manufacturers and purchasers wherefor acceptable quality means top tier manufacturers, then such manufacturers and purchasers wont be troubled by Behringer. But if one is a company in the "value" marketplace, one ought to either extract digit and work out how to deliver, as you so succinctly put it, both good "and" cheap, or start considering one's options.
 
I don't think many are underestimating Uli. However, his goal isn't to take over the speaker world with Behringer.

The X32 is a high volume revenue stream for him to get Midas at a low price point. The Behringer array looks to be a way to generate revenue to allow Turbo arrays at a low price point. The X32 and cheap arrays are secondary, so he can focus on the imbalance of quality vs cost of the primary brands.
 
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