Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Here are 12 shots in chronological order but right-shifted by one. So the first shown is the last taken, the second shown is the first taken, but it hardly matters.

Thanks so much to Danley, and Ivan in particular, who went through a great deal of effort and got out all the toys for us. And thanks to everyone who brought in gear to listen to. It was fun and very instructive. It was a pleasure to meet in person some of you folks whom I only knew through this forum. --Frank

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Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Ivan Beaver said:
People do sub demos all the time-and you hear-this sub is "punchier" than that one and so forth.

Yet NONE of the such demos that I have attended have made any attempt to actually sonically balance the subs-level and/or freq response wise.

It has just been "let them go".
-clop--
And we go back to "it depends"------------------------------------------
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I am all too familiar with how unscientific (uncontrolled) listening tests can lead to poorly formed conclusions.

Not to put words into your mouth but "punch" is more of a full range phenomenon so while a poorly behaving woofer might hurt "punch" it can not deliver good "punch" all by itself. Listening to a woofer alone playing wider band input signal than it's target bandpass could easily confuse listeners.

I have an old studio sub (huge box but only 12" driver) in my living room, that I recall feeding a sine wave test tone to decades ago just for chuckles, and IIRC I heard output all the way up to around 1kHz. It surely wasn't flat that high but normalizing paths for simple frequency response is rule one for controlled (fair) listening tests.

Note: the trend to put LF bandpasses on their own fader seems contrary to making sure their LF output mates coherently to the full range audio signal.

JR

PS: Good luck, as you know selling a flat linear path can sometimes require extra educational effort. At least you have a good brand reputation so it shouldn't be a huge uphill battle.
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Frank Koenig said:
Here are 12 shots in chronological order but right-shifted by one. So the first shown is the last taken, the second shown is the first taken, but it hardly matters.

Thanks so much to Danley, and Ivan in particular, who went through a great deal of effort and got out all the toys for us. And thanks to everyone who brought in gear to listen to. It was fun and very instructive. It was a pleasure to meet in person some of you folks whom I only knew through this forum. --Frank

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Nice pics and now a few questions for those that could not attend. Who is this person and what is he doing with that iPad and with what app??? Thanks
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Ivan Beaver said:
True. I must admit that I used to be in the "there is no reason to go below 40hz" crowd. Until I started playing with some of Toms products.

Having the extra effortless extension really adds to the experience-even if the fundamentals of the music don't go that low. It really fills it out. And if the loudspeaker can go lower, then it is not working as hard-and if it isn't working as hard-there is less distortion.

You hear music in a whole new way. The "nay sayers" are either very closed minded or more likely-they have never heard a system that can do it EASILY.
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A big +1 on that. And as Art has pointed out in the past, systems that go lower can have the appearance of being louder as well with less actual SPL of the sub lows. Having subs center tuned in the low 30s with a low cutoff in the low 20s was a real eye opener for me. You don't need to push them very hard (and really you can't because of the cone excursion) but they sound big and loud.
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Lower and 'better' is definitely something that may need to instructed to many. I had my #1 assistant in the studio last night mixing tracks on an analog setup to demonstrate frequency layering and parallel compression techniques. Luckily the club I have him at has 4 Th-115's and the studio has DTS 20 so the voicings were similar.
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

I demonstrated years ago for a drummer with a big old 26" Ludwig kick miced with an Audix D6. System had 4 TH-215's and was solid to about 25hz. I had some one play the kick and let him slowly lower the high pass on the DSP from about 50hz and down. When he hit about 34hz he looked at me with this "wow" look on his face. I said.."yep."
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Nice photos Frank.

I especially like the side porting on this cabinet ;^):

How low does the IHOP go?
 

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Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Art Welter said:
Nice photos Frank.

I especially like the side porting on this cabinet ;^):

How low does the IHOP go?
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Definitely not as low as the TH118. If I remember correctly from the graph posted comparing it and the 812, it started to roll off pretty quickly at 40hz. I can't seem to find that graph now on Danley's facebook page. :?~:-?~:???:
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Brandon Wright said:
Definitely not as low as the TH118. If I remember correctly from the graph posted comparing it and the 812, it started to roll off pretty quickly at 40hz. I can't seem to find that graph now on Danley's facebook page. :?~:-?~:???:
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Is the upper output level similar to the TH-812?
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Frank Koenig said:
If they did, they weren't telling. To the extent that there was a victim of the shootout, the VRX was it. A number of us did like the Tannoy.

-F
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Yes the VRX was pretty awful in comparison to everything there. Everything else was definitely usable. Frank, Mark, and myself were all impressed with the Tannoy, surprisingly enough.

The whole thing kind of reaffirmed my love for the 650z's too. It sounded as good as everything there, different maybe but good. The difference being that it takes triamping and an expensive processor to make it a contender. If I was starting fresh I would definitely go with sh46's over th118's for simplicity, but since I already have the 650's and everything that goes along with them I think I'll be sticking with them for now.

There is no doubt in my mind though that the sh46 is the perfect replacement for the all the kf650s and 850s out there in a lighter, less expensive (when factoring in new price + amps + cabling + processing), and a better engineered package.

For those interested in the bi-amped versus tri-amped comparison of the 650's, we found some rather interesting things. Because they sounded so different to begin with, Ivan decided to break out his measurement rig. Part of that difference was some polarity things and we got those straightened out, sort of. But right out of the gate with nothing other than the greybox settings, the triamped 650 measured flat in both magnitude and phase. It looked really pretty. When bi-amped with the xilica, the magnitude response response looked very similar, but the phase response wasn't even close. It was a very good example of how you can hear phase response, because even though they were a pretty close match in magnitude, they still sound drastically different. Combine that with the extra headroom gained in the midband from tri-amping and I think the UX8800 and tri-amping becomes the only choice.

Ivan- You didn't happen to save those traces did you?

All in all, I was very happy I made the trip down and finally get to here these things. The Danley stuff did not disappoint. The guys at Danley are a great bunch of guys doing some groundbreaking things. Now if we could only get over that pesky rider compliance thing so I could get my boss to cut the big check.......:D~:-D~:grin:
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Art Welter said:
Is the upper output level similar to the TH-812?
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Yes.

Ivan- Do you still have that graph that was posted on facebook of the Th812, IHOP, and TH115 that you could share?

Nevermind. Found it.

Danley Comparison.jpg

The IHOP is 2 ohms nominal while the 812 is 4.
 
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Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

IHOP (Mil 412) looks to be around 110 dB one watt one meter, atsa one spicy meatball !
Classic FLH 24 dB per octave rolloff below 45.5 Hz. Impressive and smooth output above, equaling the upper sensitivity of eight TH 12s with four 12".
Wow.
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Art Welter said:
IHOP (Mil 412) looks to be around 110 dB one watt one meter, atsa one spicy meatball !
Classic FLH 24 dB per octave rolloff below 45.5 Hz. Impressive and smooth output above, equaling the upper sensitivity of eight TH 12s with four 12".
Wow.
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Yep, and I can vouch that it sounds incredible doing it. Also, FYI Ivan said that the drivers were rated for 1000 watts continuous.
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Gene Hardage said:
Nice pics and now a few questions for those that could not attend. Who is this person and what is he doing with that iPad and with what app??? Thanks
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That is Carsten-who came from Germany. I don't know what app it is. We were using it to level match (close anyway) the monitors before listening.

We were using my k2 (which is for sale BTW) to switch the cabinets. Subgroup mutes.
 
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.

Art Welter said:
Nice photos Frank.

I especially like the side porting on this cabinet ;^):

How low does the IHOP go?
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One of our builders has a "steady hand problem" and it got a bit out of control on that one-----------------

Just kidding-that is a cutaway of the SH50 that we take to trade shows to show the guts. It's the lightning bolt finish. It draws a lot more interest than a simple hole. Some people honestly think the regular cabinet is built that way. Maybe if we put plexiglass behind it and add some flashing lights-we could add some sales.
 
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