Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
I will keep eric in our thoughts and prayers, and i will see everyone tomorrow.
I will keep eric in our thoughts and prayers, and i will see everyone tomorrow.
Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
- Thread starter Eric Cagle
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Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Everyone that is there, please remember to take lots of photos, (and videos) and post them here!
Get well soon Eric.
Everyone that is there, please remember to take lots of photos, (and videos) and post them here!
Get well soon Eric.
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
There seems to be a lack of photos thus far
There seems to be a lack of photos thus far
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Sound waves render so well on image sensors...
There seems to be a lack of photos thus far
Sound waves render so well on image sensors...
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Chick Gets Hair Blown By Sound System - YouTube
Chick Gets Hair Blown By Sound System - YouTube
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Give them an hour or two to recover first, yikes!
Next Danley shootout, we'll all need to chip in for live video streaming, with uncompressed audio.
Give them an hour or two to recover first, yikes!
Next Danley shootout, we'll all need to chip in for live video streaming, with uncompressed audio.
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
I only took a few. Phone battery dies really quickly now..Several others took a lot of video
I only took a few. Phone battery dies really quickly now..Several others took a lot of video
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
So while we're waiting for the latent audio images to be developed, can you tell us what was auditioned and how that was done? What are your impressions, Kemper?
So while we're waiting for the latent audio images to be developed, can you tell us what was auditioned and how that was done? What are your impressions, Kemper?
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
I will get some pic's up soon.
I was very impressed with the 212 but it did run out of gas when pushed while it was hi passed at 25hz. The sm80 was a great sounding box and will strongly consider them (with a sub) for my next rig, the jblvrx was horrible.
I have questions about why the different sources sounded so different on the EAW KF biamp vs passive vs everything else, some speakers sounded good with one source and not so good (even bad) with others.
I liked the sound of the smaller monitor from danley even though not near the efficiency of the 80, but i was pretty impressed with the bigger microwedge, the qrx was just ok without processing, i wish we would have added a little eq to each wedge to see what they sounded like when processed.
I will get some pic's up soon.
I was very impressed with the 212 but it did run out of gas when pushed while it was hi passed at 25hz. The sm80 was a great sounding box and will strongly consider them (with a sub) for my next rig, the jblvrx was horrible.
I have questions about why the different sources sounded so different on the EAW KF biamp vs passive vs everything else, some speakers sounded good with one source and not so good (even bad) with others.
I liked the sound of the smaller monitor from danley even though not near the efficiency of the 80, but i was pretty impressed with the bigger microwedge, the qrx was just ok without processing, i wish we would have added a little eq to each wedge to see what they sounded like when processed.
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
My old 650Zs always sounded very good using the 2-way passive crossover, but awful active 3-way. Eventually I redid the processor settings myself and discovered that the polarity of the mids when in 3 way mode was inverted. That caused a couple of holes in the lower and upper mids and made the box sound harsh. With my new settings they sounded great. In 2 & 3 way mode they sounded almost identical. (I now believe there was a crossover wiring error in some of the early boxes .... which I suspect EAW eventually discovered when they did the Gunness Focus settings for the 650s)
The other issue with the 650s when using it with the UX8800 is that there is a time alignment issue between the lows and subs that EAW do not tell you about. It’s necessary to Smaart that combination to determine how much extra delay is need on the subs when the subs and tops are physically aligned.
It still amazes me that they have not addressed this issue.
FWIW
Eastern Acoustic Works Support Forum: Greybox Sub Alignment
P.S - Eric get well soon mate.
My old 650Zs always sounded very good using the 2-way passive crossover, but awful active 3-way. Eventually I redid the processor settings myself and discovered that the polarity of the mids when in 3 way mode was inverted. That caused a couple of holes in the lower and upper mids and made the box sound harsh. With my new settings they sounded great. In 2 & 3 way mode they sounded almost identical. (I now believe there was a crossover wiring error in some of the early boxes .... which I suspect EAW eventually discovered when they did the Gunness Focus settings for the 650s)
The other issue with the 650s when using it with the UX8800 is that there is a time alignment issue between the lows and subs that EAW do not tell you about. It’s necessary to Smaart that combination to determine how much extra delay is need on the subs when the subs and tops are physically aligned.
It still amazes me that they have not addressed this issue.
FWIW
Eastern Acoustic Works Support Forum: Greybox Sub Alignment
P.S - Eric get well soon mate.
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Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
For example on AC/DC there was a HUGE difference and the triamped version just really "opened up". On other material-there was a difference-but nowhere near as huge-and more "different" than one is better than the other.
Since we had a lot of "ground to cover"-we did not spend a lot of it on the differences in the 650's.
It got pretty interesting late last night (for those of us that stayed around to "perform experiments".
Without going to in detail (and I want to spend some more time on this for more details), let's just say we have a much better idea of what is causing the "punch" of different loudspeakers and why one sub has a lot more apparent impact than another.
It is interesting how we can change the "subjective impact" of one sub to match another.
Yes hind sight is always 20/20, and there are a number of things that probably should have tried.
THANKS to all for coming-and especially those that supplied some of the extra gear to play with.
I enjoyed it.
I have a bunch of cleaning up to do now-but one of the most interesting things to me was the difference between the biamped and triamped 650's. But only on some program material.
For example on AC/DC there was a HUGE difference and the triamped version just really "opened up". On other material-there was a difference-but nowhere near as huge-and more "different" than one is better than the other.
Since we had a lot of "ground to cover"-we did not spend a lot of it on the differences in the 650's.
It got pretty interesting late last night (for those of us that stayed around to "perform experiments".
Without going to in detail (and I want to spend some more time on this for more details), let's just say we have a much better idea of what is causing the "punch" of different loudspeakers and why one sub has a lot more apparent impact than another.
It is interesting how we can change the "subjective impact" of one sub to match another.
Yes hind sight is always 20/20, and there are a number of things that probably should have tried.
THANKS to all for coming-and especially those that supplied some of the extra gear to play with.
I enjoyed it.
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
I really wish I was able to make it down for this.
Get well soon, Eric!!
I really wish I was able to make it down for this.
Get well soon, Eric!!
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Punch, a quality always near and dear to me, and one lacking in many current systems.
You have my curiosity going as to how we can change the "subjective impact" of one sub to match another.
And I want to see pictures of the IHOP (intense horn of punch), not the pancake house :^).
Art
Ivan,
Punch, a quality always near and dear to me, and one lacking in many current systems.
You have my curiosity going as to how we can change the "subjective impact" of one sub to match another.
And I want to see pictures of the IHOP (intense horn of punch), not the pancake house :^).
Art
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
I would just like to thank Ivan and the Danley guys once more for their hospitality. I'm very glad I made the drive, as it really provided some useful perspective.
I am still amazed at how big of a turd the sb1000z was compared to the TH212, Th118, and of course the IHOP. The sensitivity difference was huge, and the sb1000 is one of the more sensitive dual 18's. If you set the sub to a comfortable level with one of the Danley offerings and then switched the nl4 to the sb1000, it went away entirely. Not to mention the difference in "impact."
As far as my impressions of the tonal qualities of different subs, I will provide my thoughts and see if they jive with Ivan's thoughts on impact as I had to leave kind of early.
The TH212 sounded great and was noticeably more efficient than the sb1000. It had a great subjective "impact" that sounded very clean and "full." There is no question that it is an excellent performer, although its form factor is a bit odd for my purposes. I think we did manage to find Xmech when driving it off an fp13000.~:-D~:grin:
The TH118 was great. It had all sorts of "impact" with more extension than the TH212. At first it seemed that the TH212 had more chest "impact" than the TH118. But then I got to thinking about the discussion about companies low passing at lower frequencies to make the lows seem more prominent. I think in this case the opposite was happening. The "impact" just seemed less prominent due to the presence of the lower extension. I think when I buy some Danley subs for myself I will be going with the TH118. It sounded incredible, is a good balance between output and extension, and its form factor is the most practical for me.
Then there was the IHOP. The difference between a regular and tapped horn was readily apparent. Like its name implies (the PC name anyway), it has an incredible clean punch. Whereas, the tapped horns have a little "crunch" to go along with their impact. But just like we discussed yesterday, they sounded different, but I'm not sure which one sounded better. They both have their advantages, and sound better than 99% of other offerings. They comparison was a bit skewed by the IHOP's 2 ohm impedance while everything else was 4 ohm nominal. I feel a better comparison would have been two TH118's to the IHOP. I'll be curious to see what the pricing on the IHOP is. If it is going to be close to in price to two TH118's I'm going to have a tough decision to make. Its 50 x50 dimensions have its advantages and disadvantages for me.
The moral of the story being that everything there destroyed the sb1000, which is known quantity to me and I never have any trouble getting resutls out off. But the Danley stuff is just in a another league. I am now a believer.
I'm also tired of typing, so I will post my thoughts on the top boxes later.
I would just like to thank Ivan and the Danley guys once more for their hospitality. I'm very glad I made the drive, as it really provided some useful perspective.
I am still amazed at how big of a turd the sb1000z was compared to the TH212, Th118, and of course the IHOP. The sensitivity difference was huge, and the sb1000 is one of the more sensitive dual 18's. If you set the sub to a comfortable level with one of the Danley offerings and then switched the nl4 to the sb1000, it went away entirely. Not to mention the difference in "impact."
As far as my impressions of the tonal qualities of different subs, I will provide my thoughts and see if they jive with Ivan's thoughts on impact as I had to leave kind of early.
The TH212 sounded great and was noticeably more efficient than the sb1000. It had a great subjective "impact" that sounded very clean and "full." There is no question that it is an excellent performer, although its form factor is a bit odd for my purposes. I think we did manage to find Xmech when driving it off an fp13000.
~:-D~:grin:The TH118 was great. It had all sorts of "impact" with more extension than the TH212. At first it seemed that the TH212 had more chest "impact" than the TH118. But then I got to thinking about the discussion about companies low passing at lower frequencies to make the lows seem more prominent. I think in this case the opposite was happening. The "impact" just seemed less prominent due to the presence of the lower extension. I think when I buy some Danley subs for myself I will be going with the TH118. It sounded incredible, is a good balance between output and extension, and its form factor is the most practical for me.
Then there was the IHOP. The difference between a regular and tapped horn was readily apparent. Like its name implies (the PC name anyway), it has an incredible clean punch. Whereas, the tapped horns have a little "crunch" to go along with their impact. But just like we discussed yesterday, they sounded different, but I'm not sure which one sounded better. They both have their advantages, and sound better than 99% of other offerings. They comparison was a bit skewed by the IHOP's 2 ohm impedance while everything else was 4 ohm nominal. I feel a better comparison would have been two TH118's to the IHOP. I'll be curious to see what the pricing on the IHOP is. If it is going to be close to in price to two TH118's I'm going to have a tough decision to make. Its 50 x50 dimensions have its advantages and disadvantages for me.
The moral of the story being that everything there destroyed the sb1000, which is known quantity to me and I never have any trouble getting resutls out off. But the Danley stuff is just in a another league. I am now a believer.
I'm also tired of typing, so I will post my thoughts on the top boxes later.
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Punch as a subjective loudspeaker characteristic, begs the question, does all source material have "punch" that some speakers just don't reproduce accurately, or is this a voicing/coloration considered good sounding in the end result?
If you understand how to make "punch", what does too much punch sound like?
I am having flashbacks to old uncomfortable journeys down subjective pathways. Unless this reveals a shortcoming in linear reproduction of the input signal I would be apprehensive, interested but apprehensive. Reminds me of the Bose 901 with multiple EQ switch positions to be more things to more people, so yes there is value in understanding subjective phenomena.
That said I am not a customer for your boxes (just a fan boy) so listen to them not me.
JR
Punch as a subjective loudspeaker characteristic, begs the question, does all source material have "punch" that some speakers just don't reproduce accurately, or is this a voicing/coloration considered good sounding in the end result?
If you understand how to make "punch", what does too much punch sound like?
I am having flashbacks to old uncomfortable journeys down subjective pathways. Unless this reveals a shortcoming in linear reproduction of the input signal I would be apprehensive, interested but apprehensive. Reminds me of the Bose 901 with multiple EQ switch positions to be more things to more people, so yes there is value in understanding subjective phenomena.
That said I am not a customer for your boxes (just a fan boy) so listen to them not me.
JR
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Here is my attempt at defining punch.
To me, punch is not an auditory experience, but rather a visceral experience. Punch is a result of good transient response at a high enough spl to be felt. I do think that most kick drum material has "punch" in it, the question is just whether or not the loudspeaker can accurately represent it.
Take that for whatever it may be worth.
Here is my attempt at defining punch.
To me, punch is not an auditory experience, but rather a visceral experience. Punch is a result of good transient response at a high enough spl to be felt. I do think that most kick drum material has "punch" in it, the question is just whether or not the loudspeaker can accurately represent it.
Take that for whatever it may be worth.
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
No, all source material does not have "punch", a ramped up sine wave or a droning kick drum sample will sound pretty much the same on a speaker with poor transient response (lots of stored energy released after the transient) or good transient response.
If the drum or bass instrument is "tight" or "punchy", ie a large initial transient peak and a relatively fast decay envelope, but the loudspeaker prolongs or smears the envelope in time, it will lack punch.
Since loud "punch" is also accompanied by a feeling of chest resonance, it is possible to have too much level, but it would not be possible to have a "too accurate" transient response, the best sub in the world still has relatively slow transient response at very low frequencies.
Since the decay envelope and transient response of a sub is largely determined by it's design and driver compliment, you can understand my curiosity regarding Ivan's statement that we can change the "subjective impact" of one sub to match another.
I know changing the subjective impact can be done with FIR filters (and EQ), but the latency would be too much (in my opinion) for live use.
I'll be waiting for Ivan's more detailed explanations.
Art
JR,
No, all source material does not have "punch", a ramped up sine wave or a droning kick drum sample will sound pretty much the same on a speaker with poor transient response (lots of stored energy released after the transient) or good transient response.
If the drum or bass instrument is "tight" or "punchy", ie a large initial transient peak and a relatively fast decay envelope, but the loudspeaker prolongs or smears the envelope in time, it will lack punch.
Since loud "punch" is also accompanied by a feeling of chest resonance, it is possible to have too much level, but it would not be possible to have a "too accurate" transient response, the best sub in the world still has relatively slow transient response at very low frequencies.
Since the decay envelope and transient response of a sub is largely determined by it's design and driver compliment, you can understand my curiosity regarding Ivan's statement that we can change the "subjective impact" of one sub to match another.
I know changing the subjective impact can be done with FIR filters (and EQ), but the latency would be too much (in my opinion) for live use.
I'll be waiting for Ivan's more detailed explanations.
Art
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Are we getting into inertia, and it's effects on cone movement?
Are we getting into inertia, and it's effects on cone movement?
Re: Danley SM80 and others shootout Monday January 14 at Danley in Gainesville, GA.
Transient response of a sub seems like an oxymoron. While perhaps a useful metric in the context of full band reproduction.
I wonder how Danley technology that seems to integrate bandpasses together more coherently might make a difference in this context?
======
Sorry about my veer...
I need to listen to other peoples first hand experience and what speakers kicked a__.
JR
Transient response of a sub seems like an oxymoron. While perhaps a useful metric in the context of full band reproduction.
I wonder how Danley technology that seems to integrate bandpasses together more coherently might make a difference in this context?
======
Sorry about my veer...
I need to listen to other peoples first hand experience and what speakers kicked a__.
JR