Listening Get Together
- Thread starter Leland Crooks
- Start date
Re: Listening Get Together
I'm not sure why BFM boxes are being used as a benchmark. I don't think anyone here would argue that they're considered a higher end box by any standard. Put them up against some L'Acoustics, d&b, high end EAW, Danley, Meyer, or the new Fulcrum, etc. and you'd have something to really compare against. Heck, even put them up against the older VT JBL stuff.
I'm not sure why BFM boxes are being used as a benchmark. I don't think anyone here would argue that they're considered a higher end box by any standard. Put them up against some L'Acoustics, d&b, high end EAW, Danley, Meyer, or the new Fulcrum, etc. and you'd have something to really compare against. Heck, even put them up against the older VT JBL stuff.
Re: Listening Get Together
For some strange reason BFM has a following over on *Talkbass* where the Big E people come from..
But then again, it's easy to get anyone to drink the kool-aid on there.
For some strange reason BFM has a following over on *Talkbass* where the Big E people come from..
But then again, it's easy to get anyone to drink the kool-aid on there.
Re: Listening Get Together
I, too, share Mr. Rees skepticism and that is one reason I wanted to attend the event. Pesky ol' gig Friday and Saturday (4 continuous hours of dueling pianos) kept me from attending.
Having been involved in some previous "listening" events that included measurements, I would have been hard pressed to come up with results that were meaningful from a loudspeaker design evaluation perspective. The level of detail in planning and executing these measurements does not jive with the relatively fast-paced environment of a listening event. It yields measurements of questionable value and an internet full of Monday morning quarterbacks to assail the results.
"The inventors" need to get their patent application in so we can have a look at how they re-write the laws of physics (cue Scotty's voice) or at least pay for "real" measurement with an industry-accepted firm or engineer.
I, too, share Mr. Rees skepticism and that is one reason I wanted to attend the event. Pesky ol' gig Friday and Saturday (4 continuous hours of dueling pianos) kept me from attending.
Having been involved in some previous "listening" events that included measurements, I would have been hard pressed to come up with results that were meaningful from a loudspeaker design evaluation perspective. The level of detail in planning and executing these measurements does not jive with the relatively fast-paced environment of a listening event. It yields measurements of questionable value and an internet full of Monday morning quarterbacks to assail the results.
"The inventors" need to get their patent application in so we can have a look at how they re-write the laws of physics (cue Scotty's voice) or at least pay for "real" measurement with an industry-accepted firm or engineer.
Re: Listening Get Together
There is a lot of music that does not have a lot of bass-so that would mean that the cabinets would not work with that type of material?
Or is there a constant signal applied (like an RF carrier wave) that allows the vortex to "function".
I realize you don't want to give away any "secrets", but even a little bit of theory about how it works-NOT the end result-would help.
It generally starts by explaining the current problem (such as inverse square law- or what causes room modes)-then explaining how those problems are overcome.
And if you can't measure it with normal equipment-how come you were inviting people to measure it and asking the people who measured it (what did they use BTW?) to give some data. Seems odd to me-since it can't be done.
So do you have ANY data or specs (sensitivity-coverage pattern-freq response etc) that can be shared? Surely in the development of the product some measurements were taken-or it s all by ear? and a SPL meter?
As as I understand it-as written above-if there is no bass signal-then the highs don't work either-since they "ride along on top of the bass wave"(as the website says how it "works")?
There is a lot of music that does not have a lot of bass-so that would mean that the cabinets would not work with that type of material?
Or is there a constant signal applied (like an RF carrier wave) that allows the vortex to "function".
I realize you don't want to give away any "secrets", but even a little bit of theory about how it works-NOT the end result-would help.
It generally starts by explaining the current problem (such as inverse square law- or what causes room modes)-then explaining how those problems are overcome.
And if you can't measure it with normal equipment-how come you were inviting people to measure it and asking the people who measured it (what did they use BTW?) to give some data. Seems odd to me-since it can't be done.
So do you have ANY data or specs (sensitivity-coverage pattern-freq response etc) that can be shared? Surely in the development of the product some measurements were taken-or it s all by ear? and a SPL meter?
Re: Listening Get Together
Yeah, the Pi guy.... He got really pissy when I questioned his heat sink vs. long term output methodology.
Yeah, the Pi guy.... He got really pissy when I questioned his heat sink vs. long term output methodology.
Send me the box with your choice of amp and a return shipping authorization. I will measure the transfer function and impulse response with SMAART.
Include a check for $350 for professional services.
Re: Listening Get Together
We welcomed anyone to bring anything they wanted to compare, but nobody did.
They are not being used as a benchmark. They were there, so we hooked them up and tried them.
We welcomed anyone to bring anything they wanted to compare, but nobody did.
Re: Listening Get Together
Sorry you were not able to attend. We will make plans to hook up with you as soon as possible at your convenience.
You are correct. Lots to do and not much time to do it.
It's probably best that we bring cabs to you so you are not under time constraints.
Skepticism is expected and welcomed.
Sorry you were not able to attend. We will make plans to hook up with you as soon as possible at your convenience.
You are correct. Lots to do and not much time to do it.
It's probably best that we bring cabs to you so you are not under time constraints.
Re: Listening Get Together
Apparently, some are having difficulty understanding a simple offer, so I will repost it.
Apparently, some are having difficulty understanding a simple offer, so I will repost it.
Re: Listening Get Together
And I will re-post the reasonable response from Jay:
"Send me the box with your choice of amp and a return shipping authorization. I will measure the transfer function and impulse response with SMAART.
Include a check for $350 for professional services."
And I will re-post the reasonable response from Jay:
"Send me the box with your choice of amp and a return shipping authorization. I will measure the transfer function and impulse response with SMAART.
Include a check for $350 for professional services."
Re: Listening Get Together
Hi Leland,
We have already discussed this, but you were still early in the prototype process. Please send one when you have them ready, I will sign the NDA etc. I will send you another email to confirm.
Thanks
Jeff
Hi Leland,
We have already discussed this, but you were still early in the prototype process. Please send one when you have them ready, I will sign the NDA etc. I will send you another email to confirm.
Thanks
Jeff
Re: Listening Get Together
::sigh:: Ok then. My reasonable response is: Thank you Jay for the offer. We politely decline.
Why would you not want these boxes measured properly by someone trained to do so. Are you trying to hide something, or are you not confident enough in your product to invest the money? $350 is cheap imo, no one should be doing this work for free.
Re: Listening Get Together
1) I don't know his background anymore than he knows mine. Other than what I can read on his profile.
2) There are several offering to do it for no charge, just to see for themselves.
Two reasons:
1) I don't know his background anymore than he knows mine. Other than what I can read on his profile.
2) There are several offering to do it for no charge, just to see for themselves.
Re: Listening Get Together
No processing, just crossover.
We changed crossover settings on request from listeners.
If I remember correctly, the subs ended up being crossed at 90 and the tops varied between 65 and 80.
Powered with Ashly KLR4000's
No processing, just crossover.
We changed crossover settings on request from listeners.
If I remember correctly, the subs ended up being crossed at 90 and the tops varied between 65 and 80.
Re: Listening Get Together
Jay, I'm willing to put up $35 towards your fee. Are there nine other forumites willing to do the same?
Leland, et al, if we raise the money for Jay's measurements, will you send your speakers to him? Let's see where this goes.
Jay, I will send you a PM to get info about where to send my money. Mark C.
Jay, I'm willing to put up $35 towards your fee. Are there nine other forumites willing to do the same?
Leland, et al, if we raise the money for Jay's measurements, will you send your speakers to him? Let's see where this goes.
Jay, I will send you a PM to get info about where to send my money. Mark C.
Re: Listening Get Together
Pat Brown or Ron Sauro, both produce measurements that we can all agree are worthwhile. If we were looking for yet another speaker line to carry, I'd chip in for one of these two individuals to measure.
Pat Brown or Ron Sauro, both produce measurements that we can all agree are worthwhile. If we were looking for yet another speaker line to carry, I'd chip in for one of these two individuals to measure.
Re: Listening Get Together
If Leland is still planning to send me a sample cab, I will post some measurements if that is agreed to per the NDA. However, I still highly suggest that someone who is well established as a credible pro be contacted for measurements. I recommended Pat Brown, as some others have as well.
If Leland is still planning to send me a sample cab, I will post some measurements if that is agreed to per the NDA. However, I still highly suggest that someone who is well established as a credible pro be contacted for measurements. I recommended Pat Brown, as some others have as well.