Listening Get Together

Re: Listening Get Together

Here's a short video from the Listening Party.

Jake Moffat & Jake Brown
audio/video direct from iPad. Converted through handbrake to reduce size
Running though (2) BigE - MinE25's and (2) BigE - RachE12's
Subs crossed at 90, tops crossed at 80.
No processing, no EQ.
Ashly KLR4000 Amps

Yeah, we all know that audio from an iPad sounds like a$$...



 
Re: Listening Get Together

These videos are really not helping your cause... yes, we all know that poorly recorded audio on a video sucks, but you're the one who keeps producing this utterly useless content. The same can be said about anecdotal "the cops showed up in 2 minutes" stories, not to mention the suggesting that we listen for coverage anomalies (or the claimed lack thereof) by checking out your crap footage of you walking in a arc in front of a single stack of speakers. Are you actually serious with these suggestions?

Funny that the listening "party" looks in this video to be completely unattended... and the "band" consists of a whopping two guys. Nothing like getting together on a weekend with your buddies to blow smoke up each other's backsides.
 
Steve Milner said:
These videos are really not helping your cause... yes, we all know that poorly recorded audio on a video sucks, but you're the one who keeps producing this utterly useless content. The same can be said about anecdotal "the cops showed up in 2 minutes" stories, not to mention the suggesting that we listen for coverage anomalies (or the claimed lack thereof) by checking out your crap footage of you walking in a arc in front of a single stack of speakers. Are you actually serious with these suggestions?

Funny that the listening "party" looks in this video to be completely unattended... and the "band" consists of a whopping two guys. Nothing like getting together on a weekend with your buddies to blow smoke up each other's backsides.
Click to expand...

Maybe the other listeners were caught on the other side of the vortex.


I am guessing these guys also do all their auto test drives at the track with the engine pinned to the redline.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

It occurred to me earlier where else I had heard of indirectly delivering the HF to the audience:

Soundsphere // Model Q-8 Omnidirectional Loudspeaker, Offering High Sensitivity & Power Handling Capabilities

They've been doing that for YEARS and yet after all this time you rarely see them used; and with good reason! They haven't taken off because the intelligibility just isn't there. It's just the physics of relying on a reflected HF signal.

Now I don't know how yours sound and if you have any in my area I'd be willing to listen but in the mean time your videos do concern me. Sure it's a poor quality recording but there does seem to be a lot of phasing and I notice a real drop off in the HF as you walk to the sides, right as one would expect. I've got tons of videos recorded on my iPhones over the years of systems that I know sounded good (and used conventional and trusted designs) and I've never heard that kind of phasing in any of them.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Steve Milner said:
These videos are really not helping your cause... yes, we all know that poorly recorded audio on a video sucks, but you're the one who keeps producing this utterly useless content. The same can be said about anecdotal "the cops showed up in 2 minutes" stories, not to mention the suggesting that we listen for coverage anomalies (or the claimed lack thereof) by checking out your crap footage of you walking in a arc in front of a single stack of speakers. Are you actually serious with these suggestions?
Click to expand...
Videos and Pictures were requested by forum members earlier in this thread.
I don't think you can really tell much of anything by videos, other than the event actually took place. I have not suggested otherwise.


Funny that the listening "party" looks in this video to be completely unattended... and the "band" consists of a whopping two guys. Nothing like getting together on a weekend with your buddies to blow smoke up each other's backsides.
Click to expand...
Had I turned the camera around, you would have seen about 35 people behind and to the side of me. I didn't see a reason to do that.
Nobody said anything about a "band". Two members from the Jake Moffat Band showed up to provide a little live music. I don't see how this is a problem for you.
Constructive criticism, suggestions and questions are welcomed. Cynical and snide remarks do nothing for anyone. Sticks and stones. Don't waste the electrons.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Peter Etheredge said:
It occurred to me earlier where else I had heard of indirectly delivering the HF to the audience:
Soundsphere // Model Q-8 Omnidirectional Loudspeaker, Offering High Sensitivity & Power Handling Capabilities
They've been doing that for YEARS and yet after all this time you rarely see them used; and with good reason! They haven't taken off because the intelligibility just isn't there. It's just the physics of relying on a reflected HF signal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've seen those types of speakers from time to time in large restaurants and meeting halls. Seems like Atlas Sound makes something similar.
The BigE stuff is a different design. I think Mike A has one bass cab that uses what might be called "reflected sound" for the HF, but the rest of the cabs are not.

Now I don't know how yours sound and if you have any in my area I'd be willing to listen but in the mean time your videos do concern me. Sure it's a poor quality recording but there does seem to be a lot of phasing and I notice a real drop off in the HF as you walk to the sides, right as one would expect. I've got tons of videos recorded on my iPhones over the years of systems that I know sounded good (and used conventional and trusted designs) and I've never heard that kind of phasing in any of them.
Click to expand...
I also hear the phasing on the videos, but I've never heard it live. I don't know why that is.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Bennett Prescott said:
Your brain is extremely good at reconciling phase discrepancies due to the binaural nature of hearing. Plug one ear and their effects will be much easier to hear, if they exist.
Click to expand...
I wondered if it had to do with the fact that the iPad is "listening" with one mic (ear).
However, AFAIK, there are always phase issues when moving between two speakers playing the same content. Simply because of time arrival differences.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

h1_01.jpg

They cost like $100...

H1 Handy Recorder
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Doug Hart said:
Videos and Pictures were requested by forum members earlier in this thread.
I don't think you can really tell much of anything by videos, other than the event actually took place. I have not suggested otherwise.



Had I turned the camera around, you would have seen about 35 people behind and to the side of me. I didn't see a reason to do that.
Nobody said anything about a "band". Two members from the Jake Moffat Band showed up to provide a little live music. I don't see how this is a problem for you.
Constructive criticism, suggestions and questions are welcomed. Cynical and snide remarks do nothing for anyone. Sticks and stones. Don't waste the electrons.
Click to expand...

Doug,
Nothing I said was intended to be cynical or snide, just HONEST. Your product seems unprepared, your team seems uneducated, and your evidence & data seems underwhelming. Now, maybe I'm not being helpful in your opinion, but that's as constructive as I can get in terms of criticism of what you have provided to a professional community for evaluation.
If you came in the door of a real-life ProSound shop trying to make a sale with such a lack of data & a load of anecdotal marketing twaddle, you'd be wasting our time and would likely be told so in no short order. None of what you're doing is a problem for me, honestly, I hope you have the best of luck in the future... I hope the whole vortex thing works out and you make a killing... honestly... but as a professional, I don't see that you've taken the necessary steps to be on that path at this point.

Sorry for wasting the electrons... but my smoke blowing machine is out on a cross-rental.

Steve.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Doug Hart said:
Yeah, I've seen those types of speakers from time to time in large restaurants and meeting halls. Seems like Atlas Sound makes something similar.
The BigE stuff is a different design. I think Mike A has one bass cab that uses what might be called "reflected sound" for the HF, but the rest of the cabs are not.


I also hear the phasing on the videos, but I've never heard it live. I don't know why that is.
Click to expand...

Atlas makes pendent mounts for open ceiling/vaulted ceiling applications but they use the same drivers as and function the same (direct downward firing) as their Strategy II series in-ceiling speakers. Great installed products IMO and I have used them many times with a lot of success.

As for the location of the HF drivers in the Big E cabinets is he using coaxials in most of his boxes? His website offers very little detail in terms of what drivers are in the boxes - just shows a lot of stuff about vortex voodoo and one of the youtube vids said that they have a separate HF driver firing into the back of the box.

How exactly do they work? Coaxial direct radiating of re-firing reflecting design?
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Peter Etheredge said:
As for the location of the HF drivers in the Big E cabinets is he using coaxials in most of his boxes? \

one of the youtube vids said that they have a separate HF driver firing into the back of the box.
Click to expand...

I am curious about this too, does one of the designs have an HF driver firing rearward, are you using coaxial drivers... or both?

??????
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Peter Etheredge said:
As for the location of the HF drivers in the Big E cabinets is he using coaxials in most of his boxes? His website offers very little detail in terms of what drivers are in the boxes - just shows a lot of stuff about vortex voodoo and one of the youtube vids said that they have a separate HF driver firing into the back of the box.
How exactly do they work? Coaxial direct radiating of re-firing reflecting design?
Click to expand...
The only two cabs that I can personally confirm is the MinE25, which uses a front firing dome tweeter, and the GC46, which uses a horn loaded, front firing compression driver.
I may be speaking out of turn here, Leland will have to confirm. I think the cab with the rear firing HF is still in prototype phase. Also, I have seen/heard a couple of their cabs with coax drivers, but I'm not sure where those are in terms of prototype/production.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Bennett Prescott said:
Your brain is extremely good at reconciling phase discrepancies due to the binaural nature of hearing. Plug one ear and their effects will be much easier to hear, if they exist.
Click to expand...

But but but Bennett, that is exactly how their technology works....

The de-correlated packeted information [out of phase sound] is summed [heard] by brain of the listener into correlated auditory information
[listened to], as is done in nature. The multitude of of slightly time shifted audio packets [phase shifted frequencies] created are reflection resistant [already so out of phase and incoherent that it doesn matter any longer] and more natural sounding [ie: BOSE reflective HT effect - subjective] due to the manner in which the information is transmitted to the listener. [in a mess of mush]


Mike
 
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Re: Listening Get Together

Doug Hart said:
I wondered if it had to do with the fact that the iPad is "listening" with one mic (ear).
Click to expand...

That's part of it, as Bennett had mentioned, our hearing is a complex system. You're also working with a microphone that is mediocre at best. If you're interested producing content that mirrors your experience in the field, you could try doing this with a binaural recording device, (KU-100 or similar) and have people listen to the results over headphones. Of course there are still many variables and shortcomings with that solution as well, but it would certainly be superior to an ipad microphone.
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Doug Hart said:
The only two cabs that I can personally confirm is the MinE25, which uses a front firing dome tweeter, and the GC46, which uses a horn loaded, front firing compression driver.
I may be speaking out of turn here, Leland will have to confirm. I think the cab with the rear firing HF is still in prototype phase. Also, I have seen/heard a couple of their cabs with coax drivers, but I'm not sure where those are in terms of prototype/production.
Click to expand...

In your video at the top of this page aren't those the GC Series line-array-in-a-box (for lack of better description, because that's all his website says) stacked between those minE25's and the subs?

Also if they are just using dome tweeters no wonder they are claiming to have a wide dispersion pattern! My home stereo has the same thing!
 
Re: Listening Get Together

Peter Etheredge said:
In your video at the top of this page aren't those the GC Series line-array-in-a-box (for lack of better description, because that's all his website says) stacked between those minE25's and the subs? Also if they are just using dome tweeters no wonder they are claiming to have a wide dispersion pattern! My home stereo has the same thing!
Click to expand...
Yes, the two cabs below the MinE25 are the GC46 cabs. (4) 6" drivers and one compression driver.
The MinE25 is the only cab that uses a dome tweeter. Its original design was not intended for Pro Audio use, but rather for home audio.
However, we have found that it works really well for acoustic/coffee-house style live music. Its uses are still being explored as it's a fairly new cab to us.
 
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