Re: Listening Get Together
I have one of those, but in the rush of trying to get everything done, I forgot to bring it.
Listening Get Together
- Thread starter Leland Crooks
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Re: Listening Get Together
Thank you Steve.
Honesty is appreciated.
It's not what is said, but how it is said.
Thank you Steve.
Honesty is appreciated.
It's not what is said, but how it is said.
Re: Listening Get Together
And what if... just what if... it actually works? Then what?
And what if... just what if... it actually works? Then what?
Re: Listening Get Together
I'm pretty sure that that's a "Coherent Audio Nexus" model other wise known as a CAN. They're tuned with regard to the Most Essential Harmonics (MEH) which in this case are based on G/A/B/A/G/E, resulting in a Balanced Audio Distribution (BAD) which actually contains an olfactory component which acts as a carrier wave for the audio.
I'm pretty sure that that's a "Coherent Audio Nexus" model other wise known as a CAN. They're tuned with regard to the Most Essential Harmonics (MEH) which in this case are based on G/A/B/A/G/E, resulting in a Balanced Audio Distribution (BAD) which actually contains an olfactory component which acts as a carrier wave for the audio.
Re: Listening Get Together
Wow !!! We just call it a trash can on wheels. But I like your description better.
~;-)~:wink:
Wow !!! We just call it a trash can on wheels. But I like your description better.
~;-)~:wink:Re: Listening Get Together
By "works" you mean "sounds better than the BFM stuff with cross fired piezo tweeters in front of a folded horn" you associate yourself with on your website?
Art
Doug,
By "works" you mean "sounds better than the BFM stuff with cross fired piezo tweeters in front of a folded horn" you associate yourself with on your website?
Art
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Re: Listening Get Together
Nope, by "works" I mean, "does exactly what they claim". Has nothing to do with BFM stuff.
I build and promote BFM stuff because for the local bands who can't afford much, it's better than most of the stuff they can buy at Guitar Center for the same price.
But, that's a completely different topic that I am not going to get into on this thread.
Nope, by "works" I mean, "does exactly what they claim". Has nothing to do with BFM stuff.
I build and promote BFM stuff because for the local bands who can't afford much, it's better than most of the stuff they can buy at Guitar Center for the same price.
But, that's a completely different topic that I am not going to get into on this thread.
Re: Listening Get Together
I honestly can say that I perfectly understand the "helping bands on a budget" argument. I just hope you're selling those cheaper than the builder I contacted back when I was actually considering BFM, quoting over $1000 for a T30 seems ridiculous when a 718 sells used for less than that and blows them away.
Let's try to keep this from going down the BFM rabbit hole though.
I honestly can say that I perfectly understand the "helping bands on a budget" argument. I just hope you're selling those cheaper than the builder I contacted back when I was actually considering BFM, quoting over $1000 for a T30 seems ridiculous when a 718 sells used for less than that and blows them away.
Let's try to keep this from going down the BFM rabbit hole though.
Re: Listening Get Together
GC46 uses 4 proprietary drivers, and a pair of faital HF102's through a horn firing through the center of the cab out the front. MinE25 for home audio uses peerless drivers and a vifa tweeter. The MinE25 for pro audio uses Faital 5FE120's and will probably be upgraded in the models I send out for testing to a pair of the Vifa's. Just for power handling if no other reason.
Rache12 for typical rock band usage, and what's in the videos are using 18sound NLW9300. For dj use the Lab12 is recommended at it gives real output to 20hz. The 18 sound cuts off at 30.
Rache18 is currently spec'd, depending on the price, DeltaPro18a, Definimax 4018lf, or the Impero 18a. More driver options will be available as we get the chance to evaluate them. B&C or Faital are next on the list.
There are only 2 cabs that use a coax, the 4x8 model heard in a video, and a yet to be released trap cab for arrays.
GC46 uses 4 proprietary drivers, and a pair of faital HF102's through a horn firing through the center of the cab out the front. MinE25 for home audio uses peerless drivers and a vifa tweeter. The MinE25 for pro audio uses Faital 5FE120's and will probably be upgraded in the models I send out for testing to a pair of the Vifa's. Just for power handling if no other reason.
Rache12 for typical rock band usage, and what's in the videos are using 18sound NLW9300. For dj use the Lab12 is recommended at it gives real output to 20hz. The 18 sound cuts off at 30.
Rache18 is currently spec'd, depending on the price, DeltaPro18a, Definimax 4018lf, or the Impero 18a. More driver options will be available as we get the chance to evaluate them. B&C or Faital are next on the list.
There are only 2 cabs that use a coax, the 4x8 model heard in a video, and a yet to be released trap cab for arrays.
This is pretty funny actually.
Re: Listening Get Together
Thank you. I like helping out the local guys, and I price accordingly.
and thank you.
Re: Listening Get Together
The BigE inventors, Leland, and myself have decided that your quote here has earned you a BigE B.S. Contest Honorable Mention award in the form of a free BigE B.S. coffee mug.
If you would like to PM me a shipping address, I will get that shipped out to you. (yes, seriously)
Dick,
The BigE inventors, Leland, and myself have decided that your quote here has earned you a BigE B.S. Contest Honorable Mention award in the form of a free BigE B.S. coffee mug.
If you would like to PM me a shipping address, I will get that shipped out to you. (yes, seriously)
Re: Listening Get Together
With BFM designs we can look at the difference between his hand drawn frequency charts and actual measured response curves done by various builders and in various "shoot outs" to see that they don't agree with his specifications.
BigE Loudspeakers on the other hand, only makes claims with no specifications.
As you say, nothing to do with BFM stuff.
And nothing to do with a professional product which could be expected to perform as specified.
Art
Doug,
With BFM designs we can look at the difference between his hand drawn frequency charts and actual measured response curves done by various builders and in various "shoot outs" to see that they don't agree with his specifications.
BigE Loudspeakers on the other hand, only makes claims with no specifications.
As you say, nothing to do with BFM stuff.
And nothing to do with a professional product which could be expected to perform as specified.
Art
Re: Listening Get Together
One other thing I am happy about...finally their is a topic I can read on the JV forum that isn't behringer related!
One other thing I am happy about...finally their is a topic I can read on the JV forum that isn't behringer related!
Re: Listening Get Together
It wont work.
From my "very" simple understanding and analysis of the design, the only way it could work is that is plays some kind of pseudo-aural trick on the listener, like I typed before - like the live room reflective BOSE HT speaker phenomenon that sound good at first, then wears on you, especially in a reverberant space. Rear firing HF drivers that are not time aligned with the same low frequency signal, may be OK in HT or instrument cabinets - to give a feeling of "space" and "fullness", but not live sound. Period.
It wont work.
From my "very" simple understanding and analysis of the design, the only way it could work is that is plays some kind of pseudo-aural trick on the listener, like I typed before - like the live room reflective BOSE HT speaker phenomenon that sound good at first, then wears on you, especially in a reverberant space. Rear firing HF drivers that are not time aligned with the same low frequency signal, may be OK in HT or instrument cabinets - to give a feeling of "space" and "fullness", but not live sound. Period.
Re: Listening Get Together
You claim low freq response or 20-30 Hz for various cabinets-how many dB down is that freq from the rated sensitivity? I guess i missed the sensitivity spec also.
So what do they claim to do-as far as specific specs go? I must have missed that part.
You claim low freq response or 20-30 Hz for various cabinets-how many dB down is that freq from the rated sensitivity? I guess i missed the sensitivity spec also.
Re: Listening Get Together
It is obvious that everybody reading this thread has been "reaching" for simple specifications- frequency response charts, some idea of polar response, sensitivity, power handling, the basic stuff that is totally lacking from BigE loudspeakers.
Art
Doug,
It is obvious that everybody reading this thread has been "reaching" for simple specifications- frequency response charts, some idea of polar response, sensitivity, power handling, the basic stuff that is totally lacking from BigE loudspeakers.
Art
Re: Listening Get Together
Doug....
When you dispute with Ivan, you're arguing with one of the acknowledged top industry professionals in speaker design and knowledge.
When you dispute with Art, you're going up against someone who's been successfully building his own speakers of various designs for possibly longer than you've been drawing breath.
Both Ivan and Art have freely shared their expertise and measurements on this and other professional forums.
You, on the other hand, respond to their statements not with facts, information or measurements, but with personal slights. Shame on you.
As to the following statement in your post above ("The BigE inventors, Leland, and myself have decided...."), it should be "and I", not "and myself". Thanks for the offer, but if the coffee mug has as many holes in it as the theories you're expounding I'd be concerned about scalding liquids landing in my lap. Neither of them "hold water".
Doug....
When you dispute with Ivan, you're arguing with one of the acknowledged top industry professionals in speaker design and knowledge.
When you dispute with Art, you're going up against someone who's been successfully building his own speakers of various designs for possibly longer than you've been drawing breath.
Both Ivan and Art have freely shared their expertise and measurements on this and other professional forums.
You, on the other hand, respond to their statements not with facts, information or measurements, but with personal slights. Shame on you.
As to the following statement in your post above ("The BigE inventors, Leland, and myself have decided...."), it should be "and I", not "and myself". Thanks for the offer, but if the coffee mug has as many holes in it as the theories you're expounding I'd be concerned about scalding liquids landing in my lap. Neither of them "hold water".
Re: Listening Get Together
It wont work??? Crap !!! I guess we'll just scrap everything and quit then. Dangit... I thought it would work.
In his 1842 book The Positive Philosophy, the French philosopher Auguste Comte wrote of the stars: "We can never learn their internal constitution, nor, in regard to some of them, how heat is absorbed by their atmosphere." In a similar vein, he said of the planets: "We can never know anything of their chemical or mineralogical structure; and, much less, that of organized beings living on their surface."
The number of scientists and engineers who confidently stated that heavier-than-air flight was impossible in the run-up to the Wright brothers' flight is too large to count. Lord Kelvin is probably the best-known. In 1895 he stated that "heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible", only to be proved definitively wrong just eight years later.
On 29 December 1934, Albert Einstein was quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette as saying, "There is not the slightest indication that [nuclear energy] will ever be obtainable.
"Landing and moving about on the moon offers so many serious problems for human beings that it may take science another 200 years to lick them." -- Science Digest, 1948
"Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable tobreathe, would die of asphyxia." -- Dr. Dionysus Lardner, 1793-1859
"What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out oflocomotives travelling twice the speed of stagecoaches?" -- Quarterly Review, 1825
"I can accept the theory of relativity as little as I can accept theexistence of atoms and other such dogmas." -- Ernst Mach (1838-1916)
"X-rays will prove to be a hoax." -- Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895
"Flight by machines heavier than air is impractical and insignificant, ifnot utterly impossible." -- Simon Newcomb, Director, U.S. Naval Observatory, 1902
"The resistance of air increases as the square of the speed and works asthe cube [of speed].... It is clear that with our present devices thereis no hope of aircraft competing for racing speed with either ourlocomotives or automobiles." -- William H. Pickering, Director, Harvard College Observatory, 1910
"As far as sinking a ship with a bomb is concerned, you just can't do it." -- Rear Admiral Clark Woodward, 1939
"Since the 40-inch objective of the Yerkes refractor and the 200-inchmirror of the Palomar reflector have apparently reached the practicalconstruction limits for telescopes of their respective types, it isextremely doubtful if a greater light-gathering eye of either kind willever again be built." -- A. Frederick Collins, 1946
"This foolish idea of shooting at the moon is an example of the absurdlength to which vicious specialization will carry scientists. To escapethe Earth's gravitation a projectile needs a velocity of 7 miles persecond. The thermal energy at this speed is 15,180 calories [per gram]. Hence the proposition appears to be basically impossible" -- A. W. Bickerton, 1926
"I am bold enough to say that a man-made Moon voyage will never occur regardless of all scientific advances." -- Lee De Forest, "the father of electronics"
"Fooling around with alternating currents is just a waste of time. Nobodywill use it, ever. It's too dangerous. . . it could kill a man as quickas a bolt of lightning. Direct current is safe." -- Thomas Edison
"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered asa means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." -- Western Union internal memo, 1876
"Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You're crazy." -- Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859
"No one will ever be able to measure nerve impulse speed." -- Johannes Muller, German Physiologist, 1846
"The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from theintrusion of the wise and humane surgeon". -- Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria, 1873
"Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899
Many, many things were thought to be impossible... until someone did it.
It wont work??? Crap !!! I guess we'll just scrap everything and quit then. Dangit... I thought it would work.
In his 1842 book The Positive Philosophy, the French philosopher Auguste Comte wrote of the stars: "We can never learn their internal constitution, nor, in regard to some of them, how heat is absorbed by their atmosphere." In a similar vein, he said of the planets: "We can never know anything of their chemical or mineralogical structure; and, much less, that of organized beings living on their surface."
The number of scientists and engineers who confidently stated that heavier-than-air flight was impossible in the run-up to the Wright brothers' flight is too large to count. Lord Kelvin is probably the best-known. In 1895 he stated that "heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible", only to be proved definitively wrong just eight years later.
On 29 December 1934, Albert Einstein was quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette as saying, "There is not the slightest indication that [nuclear energy] will ever be obtainable.
"Landing and moving about on the moon offers so many serious problems for human beings that it may take science another 200 years to lick them." -- Science Digest, 1948
"Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable tobreathe, would die of asphyxia." -- Dr. Dionysus Lardner, 1793-1859
"What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out oflocomotives travelling twice the speed of stagecoaches?" -- Quarterly Review, 1825
"I can accept the theory of relativity as little as I can accept theexistence of atoms and other such dogmas." -- Ernst Mach (1838-1916)
"X-rays will prove to be a hoax." -- Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895
"Flight by machines heavier than air is impractical and insignificant, ifnot utterly impossible." -- Simon Newcomb, Director, U.S. Naval Observatory, 1902
"The resistance of air increases as the square of the speed and works asthe cube [of speed].... It is clear that with our present devices thereis no hope of aircraft competing for racing speed with either ourlocomotives or automobiles." -- William H. Pickering, Director, Harvard College Observatory, 1910
"As far as sinking a ship with a bomb is concerned, you just can't do it." -- Rear Admiral Clark Woodward, 1939
"Since the 40-inch objective of the Yerkes refractor and the 200-inchmirror of the Palomar reflector have apparently reached the practicalconstruction limits for telescopes of their respective types, it isextremely doubtful if a greater light-gathering eye of either kind willever again be built." -- A. Frederick Collins, 1946
"This foolish idea of shooting at the moon is an example of the absurdlength to which vicious specialization will carry scientists. To escapethe Earth's gravitation a projectile needs a velocity of 7 miles persecond. The thermal energy at this speed is 15,180 calories [per gram]. Hence the proposition appears to be basically impossible" -- A. W. Bickerton, 1926
"I am bold enough to say that a man-made Moon voyage will never occur regardless of all scientific advances." -- Lee De Forest, "the father of electronics"
"Fooling around with alternating currents is just a waste of time. Nobodywill use it, ever. It's too dangerous. . . it could kill a man as quickas a bolt of lightning. Direct current is safe." -- Thomas Edison
"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered asa means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." -- Western Union internal memo, 1876
"Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You're crazy." -- Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859
"No one will ever be able to measure nerve impulse speed." -- Johannes Muller, German Physiologist, 1846
"The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from theintrusion of the wise and humane surgeon". -- Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria, 1873
"Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899
Many, many things were thought to be impossible... until someone did it.
Re: Listening Get Together
Ha, you bothered to research all this and type it out , yet you can't get some measurements or info from the attendees at your listening party you held 2 days ago.... Too much
Ha, you bothered to research all this and type it out , yet you can't get some measurements or info from the attendees at your listening party you held 2 days ago.... Too much