New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
Yes, functionally they are the same. M32=X32, DL16=S16. Everything is the same, everything!!!!!!! Shows, scenes, remote operation, network, expansion cards, everything. The ONLY differences are analog circuitry and faders, knobs, buttons and looks.
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I was under the impression that the DL16 had the same electronics (preamps and outputs and what ever is associated with that) as the M32 that is different then the X32. But I was assuming it (DL16) would probably work with an X32. So that is what my question was about, cross compatibility of accessories.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
Dear All,

first impressions on the. M32 (vs X32):

the sound quality is much better on the M32.
We did not do comprehensive tests yet, but we did compare the sound using. Mic input to Analogue output.
the overall sound quality is much better, more detailed, more controlled, more defined. I can not say one range is better, because
both bass and mid and treble sounds really better.



Hello

First - congratulations for new desk !!!


Now the ugly part - what equipment did you use for signal source and monitoring to come up so quickly to such dramatic conclusion of sound quality ???

Sorry to say but what you wrote sounds almost like laudry detergent commercial or toothpaste - every year they come up with unimaginable new whitenes ....


If you have a studio with top quality mikes and monitoring - yes - some difference in sound quality may be observed.
If you have pa-rig with "regular vocal mic" and "good enough speakers" - what exactly are you hearing - please keep info coming, but please explain the test procedure.


Finally - I admit my ears are old and tired plus I have tinnitus of appr 2114Hz whining 24/7 - X32 is all I need - them Studers I have are just for passion...
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
I was under the impression that the DL16 had the same electronics (preamps and outputs and what ever is associated with that) as the M32 that is different then the X32. But I was assuming it (DL16) would probably work with an X32. So that is what my question was about, cross compatibility of accessories.
Click to expand...

And the answer is that unless they specifically do something in firmware to exclude the cross compatibility, then it is all compatible because at the digital level it is the same stuff.
It is of course entirely possible to give the DL16 and the M32 their own identifiers (as it is likely they have) and then tell the X32 to not connect to them and vice versa, but why would they do that other than to piss us off to such a degree that we move to Soundcraft, A&H or ......?
And since they are even saying that the stuff is compatible, to turn around and making compatible products incompatible on purpose would be ......
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dear Timo,

as usual, we did the test in studio conditions.
we did use 2 track recordings (Patricia Barber - Verse) as a source from a high end Cd player going to the mic input.
we have a listening room with 3 way custom made High end studio monitors, and also some quite good headphones.
As I wrote, we had no time to make a test for everything. We just did the comparison now between the two consoles using the mic inputs and the analogue outputs.
In our findings with the detailed tests of the X32 was, that its analogue output is the weakest point. Using the digital output and external good DAC resulted in a much better overal sound quality. Also using the MIDAS DL251 with the X32 resulted again a much better overall sound quality.
it was told about the. M32, that it will differ from the X32 in the outfit, in the electro-mechanical parts and in the Mic pre/ analogue out circuitry.
my first findings seem to confirm these statements.
then again, sound is subjective...

i hope to answer your question :)

cheers,

Tamas
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
In our findings with the detailed tests of the X32 was, that its analogue output is the weakest point. Using the digital output and external good DAC resulted in a much better overal sound quality.
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Very interesting. Having found that the outputs of the X32 were superior to my other stuff at the time I got it, it was the last place I'd expect a major difference.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dear Per,

the auxilary outs (jack) were better sounding than the mix outs (XLR) in our test.

cheers,

Tamas
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
the auxilary outs (jack) were better sounding than the mix outs (XLR) in our test
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WOW, so I don't need the M32, nor the DL16, not even a new DAC, just a couple of purple TRS to XLR leads :D~:-D~:grin:

and I've already got those, just have to write Midas on them :thumbup: ;)~;-)~:wink:
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
WOW, so I don't need the M32, nor the DL16, not even a new DAC, just a couple of purple TRS to XLR leads :D~:-D~:grin:

and I've already got those, just have to write Midas on them :thumbup: ;)~;-)~:wink:
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Nice ;)

I believe that I had heard another poster somewhere state that he prefered the sound of the X32 through the DL251.

This is kind of hard to swallow since if you look at the sound on sound analysis of the X32, it was fairly linear throughout the frequency range with a very good SNR.

My thoughts on this is that the MIDAS preamps are not in-fact totally linear, but rather color the input in a generally pleasing way.

Anyone else have an explanation?
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Rob Spence said:
Pro companies don't bet business on not yet

You say you cannot afford an alternate plan due to the delay but what would you do if it never arrives?

Sent from my iPad HD
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I agree with the first part, but he has been given dates and fed BS about arrival time. Every time he spends $150 or so to rent a desk to use instead he is $150 (or whatever) further from ROI on the desk. Presuming he already paid in full that money is also now tied up and perhaps his bank account will not allow purchase of an alternative desk.

I have been down this frustrating path before, though not with an early adopter situation. I believe firmly that companies should be forthright when they find out there are supply line delays. It is one thing to have them, it is another to be deceptive (assuming that is the case here).
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Eric Lenasbunt said:
I agree with the first part, but he has been given dates and fed BS about arrival time. Every time he spends $150 or so to rent a desk to use instead he is $150 (or whatever) further from ROI on the desk. Presuming he already paid in full that money is also now tied up and perhaps his bank account will not allow purchase of an alternative desk.

I have been down this frustrating path before, though not with an early adopter situation. I believe firmly that companies should be forthright when they find out there are supply line delays. It is one thing to have them, it is another to be deceptive (assuming that is the case here).
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All true, Eric, but specifically renting or leasing to cover the "Sir Not Yet Appearing In This Movie" mixer I think I'd rather make less profit and keep my customer than risk losing them because I don't have the console I was expecting. I think anyone booking me expecting an M32 would be happy to see me with a Pro2/C.

I certainly understand Sam's frustration, though, and also vote for realistic delivery dates and some mea culpas when stuff goes awry.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tim McCulloch said:
All true, Eric, but specifically renting or leasing to cover the "Sir Not Yet Appearing In This Movie" mixer I think I'd rather make less profit and keep my customer than risk losing them because I don't have the console I was expecting. I think anyone booking me expecting an M32 would be happy to see me with a Pro2/C.

I certainly understand Sam's frustration, though, and also vote for realistic delivery dates and some mea culpas when stuff goes awry.
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I don't understand why someone have to rent. If I buy something that needs to arrive in some timeframe and the dealer gives me a date, then I'd make sure that the dealer can supply me with some replacement during the additional wait free of charge.

In the end the deal is between the seller and buyer and not with behringer.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

A question for those doing comparison tests - were the tests you did blind? Or did you know which console you were listening to? If the latter, the tests are utterly pointless.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Scott Bolt said:
Nice ;)

I believe that I had heard another poster somewhere state that he prefered the sound of the X32 through the DL251.

This is kind of hard to swallow since if you look at the sound on sound analysis of the X32, it was fairly linear throughout the frequency range with a very good SNR.

My thoughts on this is that the MIDAS preamps are not in-fact totally linear, but rather color the input in a generally pleasing way.

Anyone else have an explanation?
Click to expand...

Dear Scott,

yep, this was also me :)

the question is not that what you measure. On a measurement you will find, that almost every modern consoles are flat, and have low THD and noise floor. But they sound different. Of course this is a heavily subjective statement, and can be biased because NON BLIND tests, but you know, we were curious, and we did post here our findings. One can just ignore it or take it.

For best results, test yourself :)

cheers,

Tamas
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
Dear Scott,

yep, this was also me :)

the question is not that what you measure. On a measurement you will find, that almost every modern consoles are flat, and have low THD and noise floor. But they sound different. Of course this is a heavily subjective statement, and can be biased because NON BLIND tests, but you know, we were curious, and we did post here our findings. One can just ignore it or take it.

For best results, test yourself :)

cheers,

Tamas
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I have a personal rule to not argue with people about what they hear.

Yes most modern consoles will deliver and measure flat audio paths with low noise and low distortion. This wasn't always the case, but advances in modern semiconductor technology over recent decades has brought us to this point. Having designed consoles myself I have long been a student of why people perceive otherwise similar console paths differently (it's more than just the data sheet numbers). There are a number of obvious and some less obvious ergonomic factors involved but a short list involve control laws for gain and EQ pots, even things like metering can influence how these controls get set. IMO ergonomic factors that influence how people set these controls can affect the console's sound result.

One important factor in blind or double blind testing is to establish identical levels for listening trials. Even small level differences can make huge differences in perceived sound quality. While I am not attempting to explain any anecdotal reports.

JR
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

John Roberts said:
I have a personal rule to not argue with people about what they hear.

Yes most modern consoles will deliver and measure flat audio paths with low noise and low distortion. This wasn't always the case, but advances in modern semiconductor technology over recent decades has brought us to this point. Having designed consoles myself I have long been a student of why people perceive otherwise similar console paths differently (it's more than just the data sheet numbers). There are a number of obvious and some less obvious ergonomic factors involved but a short list involve control laws for gain and EQ pots, even things like metering can influence how these controls get set. IMO ergonomic factors that influence how people set these controls can affect the console's sound result.

One important factor in blind or double blind testing is to establish identical levels for listening trials. Even small level differences can make huge differences in perceived sound quality. While I am not attempting to explain any anecdotal reports.

JR
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Hi John,

i completly agree with you.
my experience (as i also did design some proaudio electronics) shows me, that the very same schematics could sound different when different parts or PCB layout is used.
The largest influence in my experience has the serial coupling capacitor type, and the Opamp circuitry topology. (Non inverting opamps sound very different than inverting)

cheers,

Tamas
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Richard Mitton said:
A question for those doing comparison tests - were the tests you did blind? Or did you know which console you were listening to? If the latter, the tests are utterly pointless.
Click to expand...

I have heard of tests done where the subjects were tricked by telling them they were listening to different changes in the signal path when nothing was changed and the people said that they heard a difference, when nothing was changed. I know what I just wrote there is a bit repetitive but I was trying to accentuate the point.

I have done listening tests or should I say I have as most of you on here have listened to different pieces of gear to make judgments as to whether it is any good. And there have been times where I expected it to sound better and it didn’t. If you are a pro and have been doing this long enough you know how to evaluate equipment and what sounds good and what doesn’t. And what just sounds different even if you can’t pin down exactly what it is that is different. I have been disappointed more then I care to say when evaluation sound equipment.

So while a blind or double blind test might be appropriate or nice to do depending on who is listening, if you are a pro and you know what you are listening to it isn’t an invalid test to just compare the sound of different things. The times that the things didn’t live up to my expectations I have done everything possible to try figure out why it doesn’t sound better.

My point is I don’t think it is pointless.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
I was under the impression that the DL16 had the same electronics (preamps and outputs and what ever is associated with that) as the M32 that is different then the X32. But I was assuming it (DL16) would probably work with an X32. So that is what my question was about, cross compatibility of accessories.
Click to expand...

I suspect we will know when they SHIP the DL16.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
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