New Midas M32 Console

Re: New Midas M32 Console

Tamas Tako said:
Hi John,

i completly agree with you.
my experience (as i also did design some proaudio electronics) shows me, that the very same schematics could sound different when different parts or PCB layout is used.
The largest influence in my experience has the serial coupling capacitor type, and the Opamp circuitry topology. (Non inverting opamps sound very different than inverting)

cheers,

Tamas
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I don't want to feed this veer and go down another rabbit hole but from your comments I do not believe you really would agree with me if you were more familiar with my views on such matters. Back in the '80s I wrote a regular column in a recording magazine (RE/P) called "Audio Mythology" and one of my column topics back then discussed the actual differences between real capacitors. FWIW back 35 years ago caps were not as good as they are now. If you can hear a significant difference between capacitors you are either using the wrong dielectric for the given circuit task or just using the capacitor wrong.

Sorry... but opinions vary and that creates the opportunity for marketers to create larger perceived differences when they are actually rather slender.

JR
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

"If you can't hear the difference between the X32 and the M32, then you shouldn't be a sound engineer!" :razz:

I'm not saying that those that claim to hear a difference are wrong, I have no idea what other people hear, see or feel, nor can I objectively judge how dull or sharp my own senses are.
However, I think there is some peer pressure in the industry, just like it is among audiophiles, that makes it very hard for someone to admit to not hearing a difference., therefore I don't expect reports saying that the X32 is just as good, even if the two boards to all intents and purposes turn out to be equal.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
"If you can't hear the difference between the X32 and the M32, then you shouldn't be a sound engineer!" :razz:

I'm not saying that those that claim to hear a difference are wrong, I have no idea what other people hear, see or feel, nor can I objectively judge how dull or sharp my own senses are.
However, I think there is some peer pressure in the industry, just like it is among audiophiles, that makes it very hard for someone to admit to not hearing a difference., therefore I don't expect reports saying that the X32 is just as good, even if the two boards to all intents and purposes turn out to be equal.
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The human hearing is a very strange thing. I did some evaluation for a friend who runs this company http://www.truetemperament.com.

I evaluated different sonic temperaments for several days when I suddenly realized that everything sounded out of tune, no matter what I listened to.

It took my brain two days to revert to normal hearing again. As a musician that was a scary experience but I learnt a great deal.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

What firmware version was loaded on the M32 ?

Does the boot-up banner say Midas ?

Curious to know if it's in sync with the firmware on the X32.

No firmware is presented on the M32 downloads page.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Mike Devore said:
OK Arne, were gonna wait on your findings ! Yee Haw there arriving ! Arne, scan the manual and send it out to all of us ! (grin)
Click to expand...

The box has been opened, mixer unpackaged, power applied, and the "B" software X-EDIT used to upload a config I had made a few weeks ago.
Mixer seems to work, but has not connected to any audio yet. Hopefully soon.

But, MIKE:
There was NO manual!!
The thick multi-layer cardboard box contained the following:

- M32 mixer
- EU power cord
- packaging

Nothing else.
So, the X32-wiki could come in handy. :)


REgards
ARNE


MIDAS M32 configured.jpg
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arne Stenstadvold said:
The box has been opened, mixer unpackaged, power applied, and the "B" software X-EDIT used to upload a config I had made a few weeks ago.
Mixer seems to work, but has not connected to any audio yet. Hopefully soon.

But, MIKE:
There was NO manual!!
The thick multi-layer cardboard box contained the following:

- M32 mixer
- EU power cord
- packaging

Nothing else.
So, the X32-wiki could come in handy. :)


REgards
ARNE


View attachment 10693
Click to expand...

Why does that not surprise me ? No Manual ???? arggggg there kicking me down down... Very nice Picture Arne. The distance you shot the picture at made me feel right in front of the desk... looks like a left handed person laid it out. Having worked on the Pro series, I have become habit to my right hand always on the processing knobs so with this desk i will need to learn left handed Technics. Its all good tho.

I'll be looking forward to your thoughts Arne, (dang manual hoarders)
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
"If you can't hear the difference between the X32 and the M32, then you shouldn't be a sound engineer!" :razz:

I'm not saying that those that claim to hear a difference are wrong, I have no idea what other people hear, see or feel, nor can I objectively judge how dull or sharp my own senses are.
However, I think there is some peer pressure in the industry, just like it is among audiophiles, that makes it very hard for someone to admit to not hearing a difference., therefore I don't expect reports saying that the X32 is just as good, even if the two boards to all intents and purposes turn out to be equal.
Click to expand...
Per is right. If one mixer is only 0.5db louder it will sound better to your ear. you need good level match (100%) to make judgement.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

No manual? So you guys wait and wait for this mixer, and since it hasn't been available on the market, there is no way to learn it?
Well, guess what, more than any other mixer that ever came to market, this one has had a training version available for two years, complete with documentation and discussion forum threads and everything.
You need training? There are lots of specialists out there, that have been practicing this mixer for a couple of years, we're available at $/€/£ 100 pr. hour, we can even give you a little discount :lol:
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
No manual? So you guys wait and wait for this mixer, and since it hasn't been available on the market, there is no way to learn it?
Well, guess what, more than any other mixer that ever came to market, this one has had a training version available for two years, complete with documentation and discussion forum threads and everything.
You need training? There are lots of specialists out there, that have been practicing this mixer for a couple of years, we're available at $/€/£ 100 pr. hour, we can even give you a little discount :lol:
Click to expand...

We really need to bring back the like feature!


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Per Søvik said:
No manual? So you guys wait and wait for this mixer, and since it hasn't been available on the market, there is no way to learn it?
Well, guess what, more than any other mixer that ever came to market, this one has had a training version available for two years, complete with documentation and discussion forum threads and everything.
You need training? There are lots of specialists out there, that have been practicing this mixer for a couple of years, we're available at $/€/£ 100 pr. hour, we can even give you a little discount :lol:
Click to expand...

Plus 1.

For whatever differences may be sonically "real", the operation of the desk, the software that runs under the bonnet... is X32. I guess some folks are afraid that learning on it might soil their hands or lead them to question their Midas order.

Back to the unwashed masses.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

I can understand not wanting to wait for the manual to be finished and printed to ship hardware. There are literally weeks of transit time that can be used to finish the manual.

If products were air shipped and jumped ahead of the normal distribution queue, they may have beaten the owners manuals to the distributor.

I would try to see how far I could get using an x32 manual for now.

JR
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Dirk Martens said:
Per is right. If one mixer is only 0.5db louder it will sound better to your ear. you need good level match (100%) to make judgement.
Click to expand...

So you are saying if you were to listen to 2 different things and one is .5db louder you are going to assume that it is the better one. To me louder is not better and many times it is worse. I can tell the difference in spite of levels. I once walked out of a room because the speakers being demoed did not sound good to me and they were loud. The next set of speakers demoed were much smother loud or not. I can tell the difference between loud and better. And just because something is a tiny bit louder I don’t assume it is better. There have been times that I couldn’t hear a difference but those times have been few and far between.

Now if you are talking about none audio pros listening then they will probably pick the .5db one as better. Because they don’t know any better. We should know and be able to distinguish that kind of thing better then your average person.

BTW I have played a little bit with the X32 in a store but not in a situation where I could judge how it sounded. At the time I was more interested in how it functioned. And I have never heard or touched an M32.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
So you are saying if you were to listen to 2 different things and one is .5db louder you are going to assume that it is the better one. To me louder is not better and many times it is worse. I can tell the difference in spite of levels. I once walked out of a room because the speakers being demoed did not sound good to me and they were loud. The next set of speakers demoed were much smother loud or not. I can tell the difference between loud and better. And just because something is a tiny bit louder I don’t assume it is better.
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing the auditory system's natural preference for loudness, and that turning things up does not always improve them. That you once heard some speakers that you didn't like and were too loud, and then later heard some speakers you did like and weren't too loud, has nothing to do with it. There are a lot of variables in that statement! We are talking about something that happens largely in your subconscious; not assuming quality where there may be none, but scientifically attempting to evaluate only the variable under study.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
So you are saying if you were to listen to 2 different things and one is .5db louder you are going to assume that it is the better one. To me louder is not better and many times it is worse. I can tell the difference in spite of levels. I once walked out of a room because the speakers being demoed did not sound good to me and they were loud. The next set of speakers demoed were much smother loud or not. I can tell the difference between loud and better. And just because something is a tiny bit louder I don’t assume it is better. There have been times that I couldn’t hear a difference but those times have been few and far between.

Now if you are talking about none audio pros listening then they will probably pick the .5db one as better. Because they don’t know any better. We should know and be able to distinguish that kind of thing better then your average person.

BTW I have played a little bit with the X32 in a store but not in a situation where I could judge how it sounded. At the time I was more interested in how it functioned. And I have never heard or touched an M32.
Click to expand...

It's a perceptual thing. At 0.5dB almost all of us would be hard pressed to say "this one is louder" but our psycho-acoustic interface says "this one is better/different/more pleasing."
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Bennett Prescott said:
I think you are confusing the auditory system's natural preference for loudness, and that turning things up does not always improve them. That you once heard some speakers that you didn't like and were too loud, and then later heard some speakers you did like and weren't too loud, has nothing to do with it. There are a lot of variables in that statement! We are talking about something that happens largely in your subconscious; not assuming quality where there may be none, but scientifically attempting to evaluate only the variable under study.
Click to expand...

I am not confusing anything but the speakers may not have been the best example. I stand by my basic concept if you are a pro and mistake quality and level maybe there is some other problem. If you aren’t a pro then I can see level and quality being a problem for someone.

BTW the second set of speaker was just as loud. I said “were much smother loud or not.” meaning they sounded good no matter what the level was that they were played at.

Quality or should I say what is pleasing to someone is very difficult if not imposable to measure scientifically and you know that.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
So you are saying if you were to listen to 2 different things and one is .5db louder you are going to assume that it is the better one. To me louder is not better and many times it is worse. I can tell the difference in spite of levels. I once walked out of a room because the speakers being demoed did not sound good to me and they were loud. The next set of speakers demoed were much smother loud or not. I can tell the difference between loud and better. And just because something is a tiny bit louder I don’t assume it is better. There have been times that I couldn’t hear a difference but those times have been few and far between.

Now if you are talking about none audio pros listening then they will probably pick the .5db one as better. Because they don’t know any better. We should know and be able to distinguish that kind of thing better then your average person.

BTW I have played a little bit with the X32 in a store but not in a situation where I could judge how it sounded. At the time I was more interested in how it functioned. And I have never heard or touched an M32.
Click to expand...

There are well known frequency response wrt loudness phenomenon (Fletcher-Munson). So all else equal your frequency response will be wider the louder the signal (within reason). This is the oldest trick in the book for hifi retail, right after putting speakers in corners or on room boundaries to get some free output, while hearing a crappy signal better (louder) is not really a benefit.

Yes, professionals should be aware of these phenomenon and be able to listen through such well known phenomena, but then we would never get these anecdotal reports about significant audible differences where there is not expected to be any (by me at least).

I have always found that I can measure things that I cannot hear, and I never heard something that I could not measure (while back in the '70s I did have to roll some semi-custom test equipment).

I still decline to argue with people about what they hear.. I only know what I can and can not hear. More or less but these days less. At 66 yo I still wear ear plugs when using my chain-saw, hows that for being optimistic? :)

JR
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Kevin Maxwell said:
So you are saying if you were to listen to 2 different things and one is .5db louder you are going to assume that it is the better one. To me louder is not better and many times it is worse. I can tell the difference in spite of levels. I once walked out of a room because the speakers being demoed did not sound good to me and they were loud. The next set of speakers demoed were much smother loud or not. I can tell the difference between loud and better. And just because something is a tiny bit louder I don’t assume it is better. There have been times that I couldn’t hear a difference but those times have been few and far between.

Now if you are talking about none audio pros listening then they will probably pick the .5db one as better. Because they don’t know any better. We should know and be able to distinguish that kind of thing better then your average person.

BTW I have played a little bit with the X32 in a store but not in a situation where I could judge how it sounded. At the time I was more interested in how it functioned. And I have never heard or touched an M32.
Click to expand...
If you take two mixer and plug them into the same studio boxes with a matrix to compare the sound. They both have to be same volume exact. If one is louder by 0.5 it will win in a blindest. same speakers same matrix same music switch between a and b.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Arne Stenstadvold said:
The box has been opened, mixer unpackaged, power applied, and the "B" software X-EDIT used to upload a config I had made a few weeks ago.
Mixer seems to work, but has not connected to any audio yet. Hopefully soon.

But, MIKE:
There was NO manual!!
The thick multi-layer cardboard box contained the following:

- M32 mixer
- EU power cord
- packaging

Nothing else.
So, the X32-wiki could come in handy. :)


REgards
ARNE


View attachment 10693
Click to expand...

If the M32 was an M48 and just had one more bank of 8 faders to the right and a little bit bigger screen it would look a lot more "Pro" IMO.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

"If the M32 was an M48 and just had one more bank of 8 faders to the right and a little bit bigger screen it would look a lot more "Pro" IMO."

So in the next update, we need a 8 fader wing and a vga output ! Call it the Pro-M

my local dealer got 5 in yesterday but kept a demo. i am going tomorrow to put my fingers on it. he has it hooked up to a QSC-KLA rig. humm "they sell Nexo" go figure...
As for the X32 manual, I've read it thru several times now so i should feel at home tomorrow with the M32.. I plan to take several different mic's along with a good friend that sings sooooooo good.
 
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