New Midas M32 Console

[Arik Semagin]

re: New Midas M32 Console

So, $1,000 in improvements and $1,000 for the name? I'll take it. Are they showing a working console at NAMM or is this just a 3D rendering for now. ETA?

+1 on that! I'm ready to preorder M32 right now. Also, since there's a lot of similarities with X32, will it be compatible with X32 network-wise? I mean using M32 at FOH and X32 as monitor desk, similar to dual X32 setup? I'm sure many X32 owners are asking the same question. With cross compatibility of MIDAS DL151/251 stageboxes, it would be nice to have.

 

[Max Warasila]

re: New Midas M32 Console

+1 on that! I'm ready to preorder M32 right now. Also, since there's a lot of similarities with X32, will it be compatible with X32 network-wise? I mean using M32 at FOH and X32 as monitor desk, similar to dual X32 setup? I'm sure many X32 owners are asking the same question. With cross compatibility of MIDAS DL151/251 stageboxes, it would be nice to have.

Personally, I think this is what the X32 SHOULD be. I consider it a Behringer+ product in my mind, not Midas. It looks good, but it's not quite what I consider Midas level. I'd take it out on a gig, though. Hands down.

In fact, if someone in the DC area gets one before April (highly unlikely, but one can hope), I'd love to rent one for a show I was considering using an X32 on. Otherwise, I might have to go with the LS9-32.

Also, I want to clear up the sample rate once and for all… on the Midas page it says: "Open architecture allows for future 96kHz operation"
Translation: It's not there yet.

 

[Branson Sagear]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Am I the only one who think it looks cheap? I honestly don't care about looks when it comes to tools; however it looks fragile to me. I'd much rather buy a truck for work than a Bentley.

Anyone know if the "patchbay" is changed? Only being able to patch in banks of 8 is extremely limiting.

So far, I'm not impressed with the !Behringer! M32. I also think it a misstep to label this under the Midas brand name. I agree that it should have been the Behringer X32+ or something like that.

 

[Arik Semagin]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Personally, I think this is what the X32 SHOULD be. I consider it a Behringer+ product in my mind, not Midas. It looks good, but it's not quite what I consider Midas level. I'd take it out on a gig, though. Hands down.

Also, I want to clear up the sample rate once and for all… on the Midas page it says: "Open architecture allows for future 96kHz operation"
Translation: It's not there yet.

M32 is a very clever move for Behringer. He hit two targets at once: higher priced (= more profitable) mixer due to MIDAS badge and access to higher end of sound business (venues, tours and soundcos who are reluctant to Behringer brand name but will welcome MIDAS desk with open hands). It probably didn't cost that much in R&D either because most of it was already absorbed by X32 record sales. Consider X32 a Volkswagen while M32 being an Audi (even though these are very similar cars, like VW Touareg/Audi Q7)

Hope M32 won't stop at where it is now (48K, 40ch) and will grow up into sort of Yamaha CL family, bigger and smaller models. I'd love to see it fully compatible with DL251 stage box now (at least at 48K, but with full access to 48 channels, hopefully with 96K coming). For now M16 box looks like identical copy of S16.

 

[Per Søvik]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Am I the only one who think it looks cheap? I honestly don't care about looks when it comes to tools; however it looks fragile to me. I'd much rather buy a truck for work than a Bentley.

Carbon-fibre, steel and aluminium, supposed to be lighter and stronger than other mixers in the class.

 

[Chris Nixon]

re: New Midas M32 Console

access to higher end of sound business (venues, tours and soundcos who are reluctant to Behringer brand name but will welcome MIDAS desk with open hands).

The issue is that I doubt anybody is going to consider this to be an actual Midas, at least not in the same way they thought of the word "Midas" before. As mentioned, look at the FX units with "behringer" written on them.

This could have been a great opportunity to build a lot more credability for the Behringer name, not less for the Midas name.

Chris

 

[Sean Thomas]

re: New Midas M32 Console

The sign sitting next to the mixer at NAMM shows a price of $4,999. Is that RETAIL or STREET (MAP). It would be awesome if it is Retail, if so, it would actually sell for around $3,999. If that is the case, the X32 would probably be lowered in price.

 

[Tim Padrick]

re: New Midas M32 Console

The sign sitting next to the mixer at NAMM shows a price of $4,999. Is that RETAIL or STREET (MAP). It would be awesome if it is Retail, if so, it would actually sell for around $3,999. If that is the case, the X32 would probably be lowered in price.

I doubt the X32 price would change, as they actually sell for $2400. With the Midas' higher MSRP and lesser discount, there will be plenty of $ difference for both consoles to be viable.

Midas says that the M32 has XL4 preamps (like the Pro series). Behringer says just 'Midas designed'. That and "time-aligned and phase-coherent buses" may be worth the price difference, let alone the much nicer look.

 

[Chris Nixon]

re: New Midas M32 Console

"time-aligned and phase-coherent"

Isn't that the same thing?

Chris

 

[Per Søvik]

re: New Midas M32 Console

I doubt the X32 price would change, as they actually sell for $2400. With the Midas' higher MSRP and lesser discount, there will be plenty of $ difference for both consoles to be viable.

Midas says that the M32 has XL4 preamps (like the Pro series). Behringer says just 'Midas designed'. That and "time-aligned and phase-coherent buses" may be worth the price difference, let alone the much nicer look.

The coherency and alignment of the buses is a feature that the M32 and X32 share equally.

 

[Tamas Tako]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Motorized faders - same as pro series
Preamps - same as pro series
Nicer looking encoders (presumably better)
New A/D and D/A converters
Presumably more DSP horsepower (to support 96K etc)
More "pro" looking chassis, possibly more rugged?
More rider friendliness, though this won't be really priced in the market of touring consoles that show up on riders....

still curious. Are these facts or just toughts?

 

[Arik Semagin]

re: New Midas M32 Console

I doubt the X32 price would change, as they actually sell for $2400. With the Midas' higher MSRP and lesser discount, there will be plenty of $ difference for both consoles to be viable.

Midas says that the M32 has XL4 preamps (like the Pro series). Behringer says just 'Midas designed'. That and "time-aligned and phase-coherent buses" may be worth the price difference, let alone the much nicer look.

Someone already tested X32 for being phase coherent, saw it on YouTube, claims that it's exactly as in Pro 1/2/2c, even though Behringer doesn't brag about it as loud as MIDAS. I would assume M32 has the same preamps and architecture. But until someone will do benchmark testing side by side and will look inside of both it's hard to say. What will be really interesting is to compare DL16 (S16?) stage boxes with DL151/251 and the rest of MIDAS PRO gear (351, 451, Pro 1/2/2c). Did anybody bothered to open Pro 1 at least to see which chips are used in preamps? Until that everything is just rumors and speculation. I highly doubt that all "NEW" components mentioned on M32 web page are different of what's inside of X32: both desks look too similar, rear panel with I/O is practically identical, top looks like X32 components were just shifted around and reshaped (like arrow keys near display).

Price wise, they are aimed on slightly different market segments, MIDAS obviously higher. I think after initial "WOW" M32 may go down in price faster, rather than X32 who has established and devoted crowd already. Just a guess, it's hard to say how much value "M" badge will have on two nearly identical desks. For installs MIDAS will be definitely better, easier to sell, small sound companies like me would probably care less, both desks should sounds very close if not the same, even sharing the same Behringer virtual effects rack. Nothing is bad about this, Lexus and Acura have "Toyota" and "Honda" stamped all over them, respectively, from window glass to engine components and nobody cares.

What I really miss looking at M32 is a third "33-48" channel layer button. Web description says "Up to three DL16 stageboxes can be connected via AES50". Does it mean that M32 will have full 48 in/24 out capability or it's just an AES50 limit?

And what really disappointed me in Behringer's lineup at NAMM is missing "X32 Control" desk. Not the small "X Control" surfaces, but a full M32-shaped control surface with less onboard I/O but the same fader count as in X32/M32, aimed to work primarily with stage boxes (and possibly as DAW control surface), with smaller price tag. Hopefully Behringer is working on it.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

re: New Midas M32 Console

I would assume M32 has the same preamps and architecture.
...
I highly doubt that all "NEW" components mentioned on M32 web page are different of what's inside of X32: both desks look too similar, rear panel with I/O is practically identical, top looks like X32 components were just shifted around and reshaped (like arrow keys near display).

According to the m32 info on their site:

The M32 utilises award-winning MIDAS PRO Series microphone preamplifiers and the custom-designed MIDAS PRO motorised faders that are rated for 1 million life cycles—three times more than other leading consoles.

So there seems to be some hardware differences...

 

[Arik Semagin]

re: New Midas M32 Console

The issue is that I doubt anybody is going to consider this to be an actual Midas, at least not in the same way they thought of the word "Midas" before. As mentioned, look at the FX units with "behringer" written on them.

This could have been a great opportunity to build a lot more credability for the Behringer name, not less for the Midas name.

Chris

Uli did it right by going MIDAS with M32. It's all marketing, makes perfect business sense. Behringer X32 has already established crowd of devoted followers, making it "X32 Plus" or "Extreme" would require significant upgrade and rework, not many folks would drop an extra $2K just for a new housing, even a cool looking. And even then it will add little value to building Behringer brand credibility: X32 is too different from the rest of Behringer gear, talking mostly about speakers and analog mixers. There will be always entry-level users who will bitch about "Behringer" in general (and buy Behringer gear anyway because it's great value for the money).

By calling it MIDAS Uli moved from Toyota to Lexus in one step. Even the entry level Lexus ES350 sells for more than a loaded Toyota Camry XLE, just because it's Lexus, even though both cars are built on the same platform, share the same engine and are essentially the same. M32 will bring an extra grand or two to Behringer just by being MIDAS, even though it's essentially a reshaped X32 (which is a great desk. I remember when it first come out someone was joking where he can buy "MIDAS" badge to cover "Behringer" on X32.)

Uli is marketing genius. He could've called X32 a MIDAS desk from very beginning, it would've bring some extra $$$. But he played it smart, by conquering lower end of market first, beating Presonus, small Soundcraft Si, A&H, Yamaha digital mixers. He kept the M32 card in his sleeve until now and played it BIG. I'm sure he planned the whole game and envisioned the M32 when X32 was still in development and haven't even hit the stores!

 

[Arik Semagin]

re: New Midas M32 Console

According to the m32 info on their site:
The M32 utilises award-winning MIDAS PRO Series microphone preamplifiers and the custom-designed MIDAS PRO motorised faders that are rated for 1 million life cycles—three times more than other leading consoles.

So there seems to be some hardware differences...

What is on M32 website is no more than marketing bull, same as "all new" year model cars coming out every year (most of which are hardly different from previous year models). Until somebody will test M32/DL16 against MIDAS Pro desks and DL 151/251 stage boxes it's all speculation. I mean real benchmark testing, with measurements, not just "sounds better" criteria. Or at least compare schematics and chips/components used in M32 and Pro series preamps. Until that it's all unsupported marketing statements. X32/S16 preamps are not bad at all, whether they are "MIDAS" or "Designed by MIDAS". You would reasonably expect better performance from Pro line just for being 96K from end to end, question is how important it really is on a gigs. I'd say V2.01 firmware of X32 with new fine-tuning tools (namely RTA analyzer with display overlaying graphic EQ) will worth a lot more than subtle preamp design differences.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone will see "Behringer" stamped on printed circuit boards inside MIDAS DL16 stage box. Or vice versa. I'd probably open my S16 to see how much of a MIDAS stamps are there. Doesn't really matter even if DL16/S16 are identical, S16 preamps are great. What's more important is if M32 desk will support 96K in the future, as it says on the website, and be fully compatible with MIDAS Pro stage boxes (151/251). Then those who care and can afford premium price tag will buy DL151/251 for M32.

 

[Chris Nixon]

re: New Midas M32 Console

By calling it MIDAS Uli stepped from Toyota to Lexus in one step. Even the entry level Lexus ES350 sells for more than a loaded Toyota Camry XLE, just because it's Lexus, even though both cars are built on the same platform, share the same engine and are essentially the same. M32 will bring an extra grand or two to Behringer just by being MIDAS, even though it's essentially a reshaped X32 (which is a great desk.

Don't you think the professionals buying or requesting actual Midas desks will see through that? Maybe you're talking about mass sales to people who want to say "look at me, I have a Midas console, am I cool yet? That wouldn't surprise me.

Writing "Midas" on what is clearly a Behringer product is like having a "my other car is a Ferrari" sticker, but with a straight face.

There's also this:

http://soundforums.net/basement/7892-midas-exodus.html

I'm shocked.... (not)

Any student of past corporate acquisitions has seen the similar pattern before. I'd be more shocked if a number of key employees didn't leave. If they actually wanted to work for Behringer they most likely already could have.

JR

Chris

 

[Arik Semagin]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Don't you think the professionals buying or requesting actual Midas desks will see through that? Maybe you're talking about mass sales to people who want to say "look at me, I have a Midas console, am I cool yet? That wouldn't surprise me.

Writing "Midas" on what is clearly a Behringer product is like having a "my other car is a Ferrari" sticker, but with a straight face.

Chris

Exactly! The "WOW" factor is a big thing in sales, and that's MIDAS! Don't expect everyone to be a tech savvy customer, most people who make buying decisions aren't professionals (even church engineers who actually operate the gear and influence buying decisions). Buyers who do preliminary research will hit MIDAS Pro desks and read all good things about them. They will buy MIDAS over Behringer for a premium price. And since it sounds great (it should, just like X32) they will feel like money are well spent. Bottom line is how many units are sold, and at what price. It's all business. If it sounds great, nobody would care if it's MIDAS or not MIDAS. Besides, there are too many other things that make good sounds besides desks. You can have best digital desk in the world and badly tuned PA that will sounds like shit, then you'll hear "so and so desk sucks!" - that's how customer sees it.

In my early days in sound I used to haul a big ass Mackie 40-8 mixer (that I got from a church for $500) just for that "WOW" factor, even if only 16-20 channels were actually used. Its look alone, zillions of faders and knobs and full meter bridge got me more gigs than anything else, over guys with 1604, Soundcrafts and similar mixers (even though the preamps in Mackie-1604VLZ-Pro are actually better). It's the whole picture that matters, gets you gigs and lets you charge premium prices.

Here's me in good ole days.... street fair.

 

[Chris Nixon]

re: New Midas M32 Console

I wish I didn't agree. ~:-D~:grin:

I suppose there's no harm done if it is actually fairly good and nobody thinks they're getting a PRO2 for less money.

I still see BMW's sometimes that are from the normal product line, but the owners have stuck "M Series" badges on them.

Chris

 

[Jeff Babcock]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Consider X32 a Volkswagen while M32 being an Audi (even though these are very similar cars, like VW Touareg/Audi Q7)

This is an excellent analogy of what is going on.

Uli is most certainly applying business strategy from the car industry - his company purchases have nicely aligned him to do this effectively.

 

[Misja Hoen]

re: New Midas M32 Console

Well the X32 is a very capable mixer in it's own right. I think the M32 should be compared with a Venice or Verona. Better Pre's higher sample rate. Full AES50 support. I would say... Don't shoot me. Smart product!