New Midas M32 Console

Re: M32 For STUDIO use

hi,

just a confirm.
according to you it is possible to integrate in a M32/DL16 system, a Si Performer or Expression? such as with optional card like madi o dante, Dn9650 etc?

thanks
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Dear fedele de marco,

The M32 can easily convert audio to Dante or MADI via our optional DN32-DANTE or DN32-MADI cards. Alternatively, the KLARK TEKNIK DN9650 Network Bridge can be used to convert to MADI or Dante (and more), which can feed an Si Performer or Expression.

Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Customer Experience Engagement
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Chase McKnight said:
Dear fedele de marco,

The M32 can easily convert audio to Dante or MADI via our optional DN32-DANTE or DN32-MADI cards. Alternatively, the KLARK TEKNIK DN9650 Network Bridge can be used to convert to MADI or Dante (and more), which can feed an Si Performer or Expression.

Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Customer Experience Engagement
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
Click to expand...


thanks...yes i know it. Have you tested this specific solution? i think, obviously, it is possible in the sense that audio passing...but t[FONT=&amp]here is no format for gain sharing or controlling the head amp. [/FONT]another cheaper solution, limited to 16 channels, is ADAT with two adat card in si i think.
thanks
 
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Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Hey folks.
I am a new memeber, so forgive me for breaking any strict protocols ;-)

Has anyone been using multirack/logic/Cubase hosting plugins from inserts on the Midas M32?
Just putting it out there, as I am currently experimenting with different configs. I have only been using the USB card thus far and was interested to hear if anyone had installed the Dante card and used their virtual soundcard for this process?
I am of course talking for live use and latency factors.

Thanks
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Marty Brown said:
Hey folks.
I am a new memeber, so forgive me for breaking any strict protocols ;-)

Has anyone been using multirack/logic/Cubase hosting plugins from inserts on the Midas M32?
Just putting it out there, as I am currently experimenting with different configs. I have only been using the USB card thus far and was interested to hear if anyone had installed the Dante card and used their virtual soundcard for this process?
I am of course talking for live use and latency factors.

Thanks
Click to expand...

FWIW, Here is my experience using Waves Multirack. I use Waves Multirack with an X32 via the Firewire interface. That's because earlier X32's came with a USB/Firewire combo card. Anyway, I measured round-trip latency running Waves Multirack with "0" latency plugins on a MacBook Pro Retina i7 with 16gb ram at 8.57ms with a 64 sample buffer. The same setup on a Lenovo W520 running Win7, i7, 8gb ram yielded a latency of 15.83ms with a 192 sample buffer. I used the lowest buffer size that resulted in an artifact free output. The take away here is that the hardware you run your plugins on makes a significant impact on performance.
I have also tried Waves Multirack with a Dante card in the X32 via DVS on the MacBook Pro. I did not measure the latency but did not notice any improvement in latency with IEM's. With that said, I view Firewire/USB and Dante as having too much latency for IEM's. However, I've not had a complaint with wedges. I have also run Waves Multirack and ProTools (for live recording) on the same MacBook Pro via Dante without incident. If you do this, do not return your DAW channels on the Dante path. If you do, they will combine with the output from Multirack and not be synchronized. They will be out of phase by some degree.

In a nutshell:

I wouldn't buy a Dante card just to run plugins. The USB card works just as well.
*If you are running IEM's from FOH, consider getting an X32 Rack or the like as a dedicated monitor console. I would just use the AES50 out of the FOH console or vice-versa.
If you want a low-latency solution, RPM Dynamics has an interface that has very low latency.
Otherwise, perhaps some combination of a DN9650 network bridge, interface card, and a Waves Soundgrid Server may work. However, it would most likely be expensive and you would have to research the details.
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

I don't have a M32 but here's how I use Multirack on my Soundcraft Expression3:
1. Layer 1 channels are inputs and are not bussed to LR- I use these for monitor sends either wedges or iems.
2. Layer 1 channels are also sent directly out through usb or firewire to a mac running Waves Multirack
3. Layer 2 inputs are the channels returning from Multirack, these are bussed to the LR. This is the layer on which I do the mixing.

With this setup I am using Waves for all of my individual channel processing. This allows me to take my monitor taps from the console (layer 1) and NOT from the multi-rack returns. I am only using Waves plugs for FOH because of the inherent latency with native processing, but it gives me a fantastic group of tools to use for FOH. With my setup I am limited to 30 channels of input but I rarely use more than 24 anyway so its not a factor for me.
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

John Penkala said:
FWIW, Here is my experience using Waves Multirack. I use Waves Multirack with an X32 via the Firewire interface. That's because earlier X32's came with a USB/Firewire combo card. Anyway, I measured round-trip latency running Waves Multirack with "0" latency plugins on a MacBook Pro Retina i7 with 16gb ram at 8.57ms with a 64 sample buffer. The same setup on a Lenovo W520 running Win7, i7, 8gb ram yielded a latency of 15.83ms with a 192 sample buffer. I used the lowest buffer size that resulted in an artifact free output. The take away here is that the hardware you run your plugins on makes a significant impact on performance.
I have also tried Waves Multirack with a Dante card in the X32 via DVS on the MacBook Pro. I did not measure the latency but did not notice any improvement in latency with IEM's. With that said, I view Firewire/USB and Dante as having too much latency for IEM's. However, I've not had a complaint with wedges. I have also run Waves Multirack and ProTools (for live recording) on the same MacBook Pro via Dante without incident. If you do this, do not return your DAW channels on the Dante path. If you do, they will combine with the output from Multirack and not be synchronized. They will be out of phase by some degree.

In a nutshell:

I wouldn't buy a Dante card just to run plugins. The USB card works just as well.
*If you are running IEM's from FOH, consider getting an X32 Rack or the like as a dedicated monitor console. I would just use the AES50 out of the FOH console or vice-versa.
If you want a low-latency solution, RPM Dynamics has an interface that has very low latency.
Otherwise, perhaps some combination of a DN9650 network bridge, interface card, and a Waves Soundgrid Server may work. However, it would most likely be expensive and you would have to research the details.
Click to expand...

WOW! My first post and what a great reply, Cheers John.
This is the type of conversation I was looking for :-)

I have been using the Midas PRO consoles for years and have also done a bunch of multitracking with the DN9650. I am also a fan of what RPM are doing, their AES50 to lightning bolt box rocks with the PRO series @96k. No matter what I do I won't compete with that kind of low latency using the M32 (unless they play nice and make it 96K in the future, like the say).
So what you were talking about is right where I am now: Macbook Pro i7/16g RAM - Buffer @64 samples and 0 latency plug ins.
I have yet to measure it with SMART, but I was guessing I might scrape in sub 10ms, so your measurement of 8.57ms is pretty good for a roundtrip, and low enough for FOH.
As for monitors, I would either do the splitting option for IEMs or even just use the groups for my inserted plug ins, as I don't plan on having 40 channels of plugs on such a small system.
Basically this set up is so I can fly with my own console after pre-production and have some plugs to make it interesting. I mostly do FOH or monitors working for festivals, and then I have a full Midas PRO rig and no space issues.
This could be a cool little set-up :-)

Thanks again for the brainstorm!
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Hey Gil,
Yeah, This is a common way to get to monitors pre-processing, even if it just the channel compression you want to skip. It's crazy that all digital consoles don't give you the full options of where you wish to tap you inserts and your buses. But they are getting there :-)
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Thanks again John Penkala.
I ended up with the same result as you in regards to latency on a MBP. Did you ever get 32 samples to be free of dropouts? Or is 64 as low as you could get?
Has anyone been able to get the DN32 card to run smoothly @ 32 samples?

Thanks
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Hi Folks,

So 6 months with M32, flight is good :)

Actually some questions to Chase, if he reads that :)

1. USB playback channels, may we expect to have it routable in later firmware? In the case we'll have 40 channels instead of 38.
2. User assignable layer, by pressing 2 layer buttons at once, is it possible in future?
3. More flexibility in routing? At least banks of 4 instead banks of 8?

Thank you!
 
M32 non responsive faders

I did my first show with my M32 in 40 degree centigrade weather about a month ago and had an issue, Faders not responding to layer changes. I was changing a layer and on a fader that should have changed position didn't until I touched it and then it went to the position it should have been in. I am on a show today where the in house crew who also has an M32 said they were experiencing the same thing. Anyone else experience this and is there a fix? Thought it might be because of the cold but today's inquiry confirms its not. Besides that the console sounds great.
 
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Re: M32 non responsive faders

I believe its the latest version 2.10 which I installed when I got it. I am not using my M32 on this show, mixing on a QL5 which is nice as well. Nicer even, but sure miss the 6 band parametric on all the outputs and the analyzer overlay on the eq.... I can check what they have here tomorrow as I am on a 3 day show.
 
Re: M32 non responsive faders

Chris Greco said:
I did my first show with my M32 in 40 degree centigrade weather about a month ago and had an issue, Faders not responding to layer changes. I was changing a layer and on a fader that should have changed position didn't until I touched it and then it went to the position it should have been in. I am on a show today where the in house crew who also has an M32 said they were experiencing the same thing. Anyone else experience this and is there a fix? Thought it might be because of the cold but today's inquiry confirms its not. Besides that the console sounds great.
Click to expand...

I think you mean Fahrenheit, 40 degrees Celsius (sometimes called centigrade) is 104 degrees Fahrenheit. And that isn’t cold.

When we first got the M32 we had one fader that seemed to be sticking or reacting slowly and we thought it was due to the cold but after using it a little bit it worked fine and has worked fine ever since. I think it sat a while before getting to us and I have a feeling that they used just a micron more lube on this one fader and as soon as it worked in a bit it was working fine. Call support and see what they say.

You aren’t controlling this console with Midi are you? Because that could be a different problem.
 
Re: New Midas M32 Console

Uli Behringer said:
We actually went the extra mile to design our own high-end AD converter. It's an 8-channel, 192 kHz silicon that will be branded Midas M8000. While it is a substantial investment indeed, we felt it was worth it as we are achieving better results than with the CS5368 from Cirrus.
Click to expand...

Hi Uli,
Will this AD converter, M8000, be available for other manufacturers? I'd be interested in getting a data sheet...
 
Re: M32 non responsive faders

Kevin Maxwell said:
I think you mean Fahrenheit, 40 degrees Celsius (sometimes called centigrade) is 104 degrees Fahrenheit. And that isn’t cold.

When we first got the M32 we had one fader that seemed to be sticking or reacting slowly and we thought it was due to the cold but after using it a little bit it worked fine and has worked fine ever since. I think it sat a while before getting to us and I have a feeling that they used just a micron more lube on this one fader and as soon as it worked in a bit it was working fine. Call support and see what they say.




You aren’t controlling this console with Midi are you? Because that could be a different problem.
Click to expand...


My mistake, thats what happens when you mix a show and post on Sound Forums, so much for multitasking. I will further investigate this when I get some down time.
No not controlling with Midi.
Great info on the Blue tarp treatment for tents, thanks Bud, I mean Kevin
 
Re: M32 For STUDIO use

Bormo Glot said:
1. USB playback channels, may we expect to have it routable in later firmware? In the case we'll have 40 channels instead of 38.
2. User assignable layer, by pressing 2 layer buttons at once, is it possible in future?
3. More flexibility in routing? At least banks of 4 instead banks of 8?
Click to expand...

Dear Bromo,

Hope you are doing well. Thanks for the suggestions - I will forward these to our development team for consideration. If you're at InfoComm next month, swing by and say hello!


Chris Greco said:
I did my first show with my M32 in 40 degree centigrade weather about a month ago and had an issue, Faders not responding to layer changes. I was changing a layer and on a fader that should have changed position didn't until I touched it and then it went to the position it should have been in. I am on a show today where the in house crew who also has an M32 said they were experiencing the same thing. Anyone else experience this and is there a fix? Thought it might be because of the cold but today's inquiry confirms its not. Besides that the console sounds great.
Click to expand...

Dear Chris,

I notified our CARE Prof team of this - someone will reach out to you shortly. Please let me know if I can further assist.

Best,
Chase McKNIGHT
Specialist, Customer Experience, Engagement
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
 
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Re: New Midas M32 Console

drew gandy said:
Hi Uli,
Will this AD converter, M8000, be available for other manufacturers? I'd be interested in getting a data sheet...
Click to expand...

Dear Drew,

thanks for reaching out.

The M8000 is based on proprietary technology and primarily designed for use within MUSIC Group products. At this stage we have not decided if we want to make the chip available for external parties.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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