So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Andrew Broughton said:
Thanks, Scott. :)

It'd be pretty simple to have the software not allow a bus to send to itself.I'm not quite sure what you mean there, but I'll assume it's just another of your "digs"... :)
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No insults intended, Andrew. More like "joshing", perhaps. Please note the disclaimer emoticons on each of those. :)

But if you're doing in-ears, and you of course want reverbs, but the console won't let you send stereo FX returns to aux sends which happen to be your in-ear mixes... well, you'd probably be rather annoyed having to burn some input channels to make that work.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Ok, now that I'm over my initial disappointment in Yamaha not coming out with a new flagship to replace the PM1D, I'm starting to warm up to this one, esp. the CL5. Big deals to me:

32 Mixes
CUSTOMIZABLE BANKS!!!!!
Built-in Networked audio & multi-track recording

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Editor to drill down a bit on the features. I'm really hoping they've done some work on adding more SAFE-able Parameters.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

TJ Cornish said:
The Yamaha CL3, apparently. Here's the high-res picture from Christian's link:
View attachment 3347

Why are companies insisting on having a mixer that's like 15" tall? That make for a ridiculously oversized case.

Looks like M7-style channel controls, possibly 9 layers for the fader banks. It appears to have an IPad area. Is the thing on the bottom right side a slide out keyboard?
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I for one prefer the taller desks. The controls are much easier to see (especially if I have to sit down in a theatre), also the case is much more stable during transportation.

FWIW the CL5 is less than 12" tall with built in meter bridge.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Andrew Broughton said:
I'm really hoping they've done some work on adding more SAFE-able Parameters.
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I was told that the scene memory wasn't especially advanced over the M7CL, and no separate patch libraries like on the PM5D and such.

On the other hand the channel link now lets you set different link parameters for each link group, which is a nice thing to finally have.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Caleb Dick said:
Yay, finally caught up to the Roland M-480. :)

With DCA spill, POP groups, even the iLive's flexibility of what each fader can be - this feels outdated.
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There is apparently something like the iLive level of moving faders around, though I haven't heard exactly how it works. You can use the mains faders on the right for money channels, for instance.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Scott Helmke said:
There is apparently something like the iLive level of moving faders around, though I haven't heard exactly how it works. You can use the mains faders on the right for money channels, for instance.
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I'd love DCA spill or POP groups, I imagine that Midas may have it patented. Didn't Innovision (sp?) also have something similar, I think they called it X-faders or something like that?

It appears to me that each group of faders has several custom layers at the bottom of the layer select buttons. The number varies with the bank, and size of console.

Philip
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

I was told that the master faders on the right hand side of the console can be programmed to be whatever you want them to be, so, Stereo Masters, Left and Right, Mono, your money channel, your Aux fed sub...etc... The other fader banks have several different levels of customizability. I haven't gotten a hold of the manual yet, so I don't know what the limits are.

Yes, Innovason used a concept called X Fader. But all that really did was they gave you like 50 faders across the console and you had to manually patch the functions of each fader when you set up the console. I hated it, and we got rid of ours for a PM5D.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Scott Helmke said:
Always glad to help out. :)

Actually I was thinking along the lines of matrixes feeding each other, but then there's the risk of creating feedback loops.
Which of course you can do in other places, so it's not like it really matters that much. When we had a Midas Pro2 in a few weeks I found that they'd made it impossible to feed effects returns back to aux sends... to prevent feedback loops. I'm pretty sure a tech with your shows would be somewhat unhappy with that "feature".
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Seriously? The Pro2 won't allow you to put the FX return channels into ANY AUXs? Even a MixWiz will do that... That means no reverb in the monitors and no reverb in the delay???

When making "templates" for my digital mixers (all Yamaha) I just swith off the one aux send that would make a feedback loop on each FX return. I think most people who can afford a Pro2 would probably be experienced enough to do the same.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Andrew Broughton said:
I'm looking forward to seeing the new Editor to drill down a bit on the features. I'm really hoping they've done some work on adding more SAFE-able Parameters.
Click to expand...

They have! F.inst. Direct Out is safeable now, which I love. Can't really remember what else, but there were a whole lot of buttons in there (like 16 or something) where my LS9 has what - 8?
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Did any one get the story on the "Premium Rack". Is this an extra cost (software?) add-on?

I must admit not knowing much about the current VCM features of the DM and 01V96 series.

Thanks,

Philip
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Philip Roberts said:
Did any one get the story on the "Premium Rack". Is this an extra cost (software?) add-on?
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The literature reads like they are included. I haven't seen anything mention an extra add on cost. I'm preparing a list of questions to email to my rep once I finish reading through the manual, and this is one that I was already going to include.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Frederik Rosenkjær said:
They have! F.inst. Direct Out is safeable now, which I love. Can't really remember what else, but there were a whole lot of buttons in there (like 16 or something) where my LS9 has what - 8?
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I'm hoping for a lot more granularity in safing mixes, but I'm not expecting anything. Yamaha has a long way to go in terms of Scene Management.
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Philip Roberts said:
Did any one get the story on the "Premium Rack". Is this an extra cost (software?) add-on?

I must admit not knowing much about the current VCM features of the DM and 01V96 series.

Thanks,

Philip
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I was at Frankfurt last week when the CL series were launched..

The premium rack is 8 slots which can contain the premium fx and dynamics. Slots can take a different number of units depending on needed processing power. There is No extra cost.

The custom layers are great. All the banks of faders can be built as custom banks. This includes the faders commonly associated with the master faders. These could be your money channels.

I played with the console for 15 minutes on the stand and loved it. The ease of use of te Yamaha consoles, with the sound quality of rupert neve..

We'll be the first to receive the console in the UK, and will be organising UK demo open days very soon.

Watch this space for more info

SFL Group : Yamaha CL Series Digital Consoles
 
Re: So we get new Yamaha desks? CL series

Scott Helmke said:
Always glad to help out. :)

Actually I was thinking along the lines of matrixes feeding each other, but then there's the risk of creating feedback loops.
Which of course you can do in other places, so it's not like it really matters that much. When we had a Midas Pro2 in a few weeks I found that they'd made it impossible to feed effects returns back to aux sends... to prevent feedback loops. I'm pretty sure a tech with your shows would be somewhat unhappy with that "feature".
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Guys,

Please excuse this slightly long reply.

I just wanted to step in and correct the comment Scott made about the effects returns of the PRO2. It is possible to send effect returns to the aux buss outputs, the reason this is not enabled by default has nothing to do with avoiding feedback loops. As Scott rightly notes, its possible to create feedback loops at various stages within any console, analogue or digital. But before I explain how to send Aux returns to all the mix busses on one of our consoles I thought I should explain why you can't do it by default. The reason is the way the automatic latency management system built into all our digital consoles works. We take phase coherency in our mixing platform very seriously, as we believe its very important to the sound of our mixing consoles. So the latency management system is required to enable us to control this aspect of the mixing process.

Without going into great detail, to keep all the audio phase coherent, the consoles split the processing into 3 basic time zones. Zone1: Input channels, Zone2: Aux sends and returns, Zone3: Matrix & Master outputs. This is so that we can manage the different signal path lengths within the console. In its default setting the Aux returns and the Aux sends are in the same time zone. This is so that the Aux sends and returns are phase coherent with each other and is ideal for FOH mixing, as it still allows you to mix the Aux returns to the masters and matrix outputs post processing. Because we can not perform the (currently) impossible task of time travel its not possible to send processed Aux returns back to the Aux sends within the same time zone. So to enable you to send the Aux returns to Aux sends for monitor mixing (or other) purposes we have to move the Aux return channels into Zone1 of the latency management system. This is done by clicking on the 'input zone' GUI button, which is found at the top of the Aux return channel strip (where the HPF/LPF etc is found). This will then allow you to send processed Aux return inputs to ALL mix busses, which offers you full flexibility in your mixing structure.

There are a number of other things I could cover under the latency management banner, but these do not relate to the post on the PRO2's Aux returns. So I will stop here.

I hope this hasn't confused the situation, but I felt I had to clarify the statement.

Thank you,
 
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