Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Just thinking out loud but... One idea that I have seen some forums implement is to have a separate section for manufacturer dialogue. It would keep the hyperbole out of general discussion and still allow a safe place to host these manufacturer Q&A's that do seem to draw a lot of traffic.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

...The final voicing is done using a source-coherent minimum phase method that equals and betters linear phase methods (currently so fashionable) for frequency response, time alignment and off axis summation, whilst delivering the performance with an absolute minimum propagation delay.
This makes the system ideal for live performance and announcements where ‘lip-sink’ to the performer is very desirable. This voicing method also provides seamless subwoofer integration and outstanding sonic detail.

Interesting,

Andrew, I think you're saying that you don't use any FIR filters in the processing [or are you saying that you don't use FIR filters for the "final voicing"?] for the sake of keeping the overall latency down. I'm curious about how much time delay you figure you have been able to save versus using FIR?
Secondly, since I think you were answering a question about the new Turbo branded speaker line vs the discontinued Behringer branded line, are you saying that the Behringer branded line used higher latency FIR processing?

Thanks!
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Just thinking out loud but... One idea that I have seen some forums implement is to have a separate section for manufacturer dialogue. It would keep the hyperbole out of general discussion and still allow a safe place to host these manufacturer Q&A's that do seem to draw a lot of traffic.

It seems to me that this thread and the Yamaha one ARE the separate section.

The problem as I see it, is inappropriate questions and general discussion. I mean, people who can talk to POTUS don't use the opportunity to ask about why there is a speed bump in Arlington cemetery. This thread is to ask the CEO of a major company relevant questions.

I, for one, appreciate the time Mr. Behringer is willing to spend with us. I think we should use it wisely.

Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

It seems to me that this thread and the Yamaha one ARE the separate section.

The problem as I see it, is inappropriate questions and general discussion. I mean, people who can talk to POTUS don't use the opportunity to ask about why there is a speed bump in Arlington cemetery. This thread is to ask the CEO of a major company relevant questions.

I, for one, appreciate the time Mr. Behringer is willing to spend with us. I think we should use it wisely.

Sent from my iPad HD

Do you really say that there is such a thing as inappropriate questions? If Uli and his workers take part here they are the same as everyone one else. If they don't want to answer questions right, they should pay for advertising.
I think my question was very appropriate. And it was not answered. It was replied with Marketing Bull****.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Do you really say that there is such a thing as inappropriate questions? If Uli and his workers take part here they are the same as everyone one else. If they don't want to answer questions right, they should pay for advertising.
I think my question was very appropriate. And it was not answered. It was replied with Marketing Bull****.

You did get an answer saying that the drivers are different, using different coil technology, the voicing of the speakers are different, using a different approach.

What kind of answer did you want? What could he possibly answer that would satisfy you? "Same shit, we just changed the name to make it Turbosound instead of Eurolive" - even if that wasn't true?
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Am I the only one that is still unconvinced that Uli Behringer is actually a real person, and not just a corporate image?
I heard that he was seen together with elvis and michael jackson last week. They are supposed to do a show in las vegas in the behringer care center, using only behringer gear. 8)~8-)~:cool:

I think the show is going to be called "Viva x32" and uli will rock out on the piano since liberace had other commitments...
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

You did get an answer saying that the drivers are different, using different coil technology, the voicing of the speakers are different, using a different approach.

What kind of answer did you want? What could he possibly answer that would satisfy you? "Same shit, we just changed the name to make it Turbosound instead of Eurolive" - even if that wasn't true?

No I didn't get an answer. I ask what the difference is. He told me nothing about that. Voicecoil made out of aluminium is not a difference. It says nothing about size difference, what material is used on old system or horns used.
I want to compare the two. Voicing of the old system was what?
kindly waiting for a answer. He says its better, I want to know why
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

No I didn't get an answer. I ask what the difference is. He told me nothing about that. Voicecoil made out of aluminium is not a difference. It says nothing about size difference, what material is used on old system or horns used.
I want to compare the two. Voicing of the old system was what?
kindly waiting for a answer. He says its better, I want to know why

Good luck with that, I don't think you'll find representatives of any manufacturer that is willing to get into a detailed discussion on every aspect of a design upgrade.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dirk i have read your post before and you seem to be always negative and only looking for revanche for your Midas investment reduced when they lowered the price. I think you are not looking for real answer from them but just opportunity to be negative.Per is correct that that you are just want to bashing the company and people. I feel sorry for Andrew that he made an effortr to answer you.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dirk i have read your post before and you seem to be always negative and only looking for revanche for your Midas investment reduced when they lowered the price. I think you are not looking for real answer from them but just opportunity to be negative.Per is correct that that you are just want to bashing the company and people. I feel sorry for Andrew that he made an effortr to answer you.
Yes you are right! I still think they either answer the question or don't answer at all. So I can not feel sorry for Andrew.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi All,
this is a question mainly for the guys at midas and Uli, So I have become an early adopter of M32 obviously you guys haven't released the desk as of yet I was just wondering if there was any more information on things like dimensions, whether the DL16 will be available at launch, when launch will be? Im really looking forward to getting the desk and I cant wait to get it on some jobs
regards
Sam Lynam
Aligned Audio
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Interesting,

Andrew, I think you're saying that you don't use any FIR filters in the processing [or are you saying that you don't use FIR filters for the "final voicing"?] for the sake of keeping the overall latency down. I'm curious about how much time delay you figure you have been able to save versus using FIR?
Secondly, since I think you were answering a question about the new Turbo branded speaker line vs the discontinued Behringer branded line, are you saying that the Behringer branded line used higher latency FIR processing?

Thanks!

Hi Drew,


Thank you for your question.


First of all I apologise if my answers are considered “marketing”. I am trying to answer people’s questions in a technical way and in particular in a thread that is associated with our company. If my answers are considered “marketing” I would appreciate guidance from the admin.


Back to your question:


IIR, FIR and the different types thereof all have their benefits and trade offs of course. I believe that in some applications FIR: especially Linear Phase FIR filters are used because it's an easy shortcut to a 3/4 way decent system voicing. I've seen systems that have latency of 10ms or more due to FIR and Linear Phase being used down to relatively low frequencies. Correct implementation of IIR can in many cases give the correct phase components on and off axis without the need of FIR thus allowing low latency. Also there are some psychoacoustic benefits to IIR such as no pre-ringing of the impulse response and no theoretical end to the impulse response, these are both factors present in 'real' sound that may come from acoustic instruments, voices etc. Although, for example, Linear Phase filters may more accurately reproduce signals on an oscilloscope or when transfer functions are viewed in the frequency domain, in some quite intensive listening tests we have performed, a well designed IIR solution sounded better and more accurate to the human ear - which after all is what it's all about. I other cases, especially with more complex systems, the FIR solution may give a better overall sound.


Another goal with TLX is to be able to provide a set of equalisation points that can be used in a controller with a relatively low DSP horsepower so that the systems would be available to a wider audience and the user could utilise already purchased equipment. Simplicity done well usually just sounds better.


We have always gone to great lengths to create the best possible electro-acoustic systems with the minimum need for equalisation. Better sound quality is always achieved by making the components and acoustic systems work correctly in the first place rather than having to 'fix' them with DSP afterwards.


In answer to your question: No FIRs are used in the system. Causal IIR methods + short delays are used in TLX to match and better an equivalent FIR method, without latency. ELX had a much more standard IIR method.
 
Last edited:
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Andrew,

Thank you for the great reply. I think this is more along the lines of the kind of answer people were looking for. Your previous post was a bit 'glossed over' and left many thinking that it was a canned response that didn't give enough detail to really answer the question [in other words, it made it seem like you wanted to answer without really answering]

As far as the IIR & FIR question, your reply brings up some other questions.

A) I'm not clear on how this speaker system is intended to be processed. You mention that the TLX processing requirements are mild so that a wider variety of dsp's can be used. I'm curious how you intend to handle the actual dsp settings. The issue of consistency of parameters across different brands of dsp controllers (such as parametric EQ "Q") has been discussed on this and other pro sound forums for years. Can you elaborate on how you will deal with this issue?
B) Is there a recommended Turbo or KT (or Behringer) branded dsp unit?
C) Just how much total latency does a complete 43 or 84 system exhibit?
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

If they don't want to answer questions right, they should pay for advertising.

Dirk,

They do pay for advertising.

If you don't think that voicing and using different coil technology is a significant difference between products, I don't know what to tell you. From a driver manufacturer's side, CCAW versus Aluminum wire is a big deal.

Where do you expect this conversation to go?
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dirk,

They do pay for advertising.

If you don't think that voicing and using different coil technology is a significant difference between products, I don't know what to tell you. From a driver manufacturer's side, CCAW versus Aluminum wire is a big deal.

Where do you expect this conversation to go?

Hello Bennett,
In his original reply he said the drivers are aluminium. This is fine. He did not say what the other drivers are. My the question was " What is the difference " Simply describing one does not answer it. thats all.
I would have hoped it belike "Difference between ELX and TLX is Driver A Plastic, driver B Aluminium". Then I can make a comparison. I am to negative about and should go away. I still think their Marketing does not belong into a forum. So goodbye
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

From a driver manufacturer's side, CCAW versus Aluminum wire is a big deal.

Bennett,

I think Andrew's comments about CCAW and pure aluminum were both about the TLX models and had nothing to do with the ELX models. We still don't know if the winding material choice changed from ELX to TLX which I suppose could be important depending on who wanted to know.

Here's a curious question for you... which, if any, B&C compression drivers currently use copper-only windings?