X32 Discussion

[Alan Geering]

Re: X32 using P16-I inputs?

Uh-oh....I _think_ I just got bitten by my own assumption.

1/ I'm a gronk and made an assumption (that the inputs from the P16-I can be routed back to the x32

Either way I'm a gronk! but can someone please tell me why?

Thanks
Pauly

Because ultranet is one direction only and the port on the x32 is an output.
Ultranet and aes50 are also very different so don't try to connect ultranet ports to aes50 ports.

You need an s16.

Hope this helps,
Al

 

[Baba Z. Buerger]

Re: Monitor out cabling

I'am about to be the new owner of an x32! I've been though most of the 183 pages of posts here and dont recall this exact question. Currently on my Presonus board I have 1/4" outs to my monitor feeds. I know the x32 has 1/4 but it seemed like they were more for outboard rack gear. Can I patch those 1/4 outs to one of the 16 main xlr buss outs or do I need to buy new cables (or adaptors) to convert and use the XLR's? I'm sure it'd be more obvious once I get the board, just trying to be preemptive before it gets here.

Thanks!

If I understand you correctly- you are trying to connect monitors (say Mix bus 1,2,3,4) to 1/4" outputs.
this can be done in the routing page- 'Aux out' tab '

http://i.imgur.com/pfAJI.png

Hope that helps

 

[Paul Mirtschin]

Re: Theatrical Use

Maybe it's just the old thing that in the computer world sometimes the first thing in a list is 0, sometimes it's 1.
Mick Berg.

Thats why we have standards; so everyone can have one of their own.

 

[Paul Johnson]

Re: crossover in the desk

I take the point about how an accidental system reset could alter the outputs - but would the routing also be reset, so there would be nothing actually routed to the HF section, and assuming the low number outputs were active, if they feed the subs, then no harm would be caused, would it? Same thing would apply if the desk was moved to a new scene without the crossover function? In one of my systems I have a Behringer crossover with old fashioned knobs. At stage end these are more likely to be twiddled with an equally disastrous end product.

I'm afraid my system will be repatched to remove the crossovers as soon as I get a chance, and I'll see how it goes. A colleague destroyed some horns with full range audio only last year, when the memory battery in his elderly crossover failed and it started up with no filters!

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: crossover in the desk

I take the point about how an accidfrental system reset could alter the outputs - but would the routing also be reset, so there would be nothing actually routed to the HF section, and assuming the low number outputs were active, if they feed the subs, then no harm would be caused, would it? Same thing would apply if the desk was moved to a new scene without the crossover function? In one of my systems I have a Behringer crossover with old fashioned knobs. At stage end these are more likely to be twiddled with an equally disastrous end product.

I'm afraid my system will be repatched to remove the crossovers as soon as I get a chance, and I'll see how it goes. A colleague destroyed some horns with full range audio only last year, when the memory battery in his elderly crossover failed and it started up with no filters!

I fail to understand this compunction to eliminate a system processor. Other than freeing up a 1 rack space and about 2.5kg, what is the attraction? Why not just replace your amps with XTI or I-Techs (or similar), or move to powered & processed speakers? Either would make far more sense from a system design perspective.

 

[Randy Martin]

Re: crossover in the desk

I fail to understand this compunction to eliminate a system processor. Other than freeing up a 1 rack space and about 2.5kg, what is the attraction? Why not just replace your amps with XTI or I-Techs (or similar), or move to powered & processed speakers? Either would make far more sense from a system design perspective.

I agree i really don't think i would want my desk to be a crossover beause it don't have the correct limiters you can set on your speakers to protect them..

I would always use a crossover processor cause you can fine tune your much better than what they give you at the console..


And if you have power problem and if you have no APC your system could make a big bang when the power comes back on and you might blow your horns if there no auto mute on your Xover
you might have a bunch or blown components.. i have had this happen to me few times when the power fails and its nice to have a xover with automute on power up..

Randy

 

[Paul Johnson]

Re: crossover in the desk

The reason is very simple. I wish to be able to alter the parameters from the mix position to suit the type of programming one particular venue has. At the moment, I have a number of stored settings, where the mid to HF settings are constant, but the crossover between the subs and the 15" drivers in the tops needs to vary. Sometimes I want a smooth swap, but other material requires a more thuddy, tight 'duh' than a real note. I do not have a crossover with a remote, and do NOT wish to replace them with ones that do. My ideal would be to sit front of house and fine tune the slopes and crossover frequencies and adjust levels - as I currently do from the amp rack. This is a tortuous process and something that I can now do. I've got one BSS crossover, 2 Behringers and an older DBX. With what I have, I have fine tuning enough for my needs on the X32, and far better than what is on the crossovers. I take your point about limiters.

To Tim - my compunction is simply that I want front of house control. I could, I suppose leave the existing multi in alongside the cat5, and use these lines with the old crossovers front of house - but you'll just have to accept that while I appreciate the reasons for not doing it, I now have the ability to do it, so will give it a shot.

I do NOT want to spend money on new clever amps, or crossovers with remote controls. These would of course do the job nicely, but after the desk, the stage boxes, flight case and monitor controls I do not have any money. BUT - I still want the facility.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: crossover in the desk

I take the point about how an accidental system reset could alter the outputs - but would the routing also be reset, so there would be nothing actually routed to the HF section, and assuming the low number outputs were active, if they feed the subs, then no harm would be caused, would it? Same thing would apply if the desk was moved to a new scene without the crossover function? In one of my systems I have a Behringer crossover with old fashioned knobs. At stage end these are more likely to be twiddled with an equally disastrous end product.

I'm afraid my system will be repatched to remove the crossovers as soon as I get a chance, and I'll see how it goes. A colleague destroyed some horns with full range audio only last year, when the memory battery in his elderly crossover failed and it started up with no filters!

It might just be me, but I feel less than confident about what changes goes on from scene to scene when I'm busy setting up a show. I have countless evidence that in my hands parameter safes, scene safes, unintended changes from preset loads etc. has become a incomprehensible jumble of confusion, and I don't trust myself to get these things right each and every time. A scene recall, let's say a scene imported from a stick, a show that someone else have set up, there is ample opportunity for routing and filters to get screwed up big time. I would like to see some absolutely 100% lockable settings before I would risk anything but sub set-ups.
Even then, with power-up pop on all outputs, it would be a no-go for active bi- and tri-amping anyway.
At the end of the day, even though I might be well served with a idiot-proof system that can't be screwed up, the opportunity to do something new and exciting that is limited by what I can think of instead of built-in limitations that don't need to be there is a big part of the attraction for me.

 

[Paul Mirtschin]

Re: crossover in the desk

I fail to understand this compunction to eliminate a system processor. Other than freeing up a 1 rack space and about 2.5kg, what is the attraction? Why not just replace your amps with XTI or I-Techs (or similar), or move to powered & processed speakers? Either would make far more sense from a system design perspective.

I think it comes down to the fact that some of the users here are operating on a low/no budget system. While there is the "right" way to do things, that usually involves more time, money and equipment than is available, so any chance to minimise any of those is a Good Thing.

I'm already lugging less gear to gigs by using the X32 over other desks, and if I can lug less gear (or have more/better options) by using the X32 as a crossover, I'll happily do that. It makes the gig easier, faster to set up, and faster to pull down. Which is very important on small gigs.

Now if I am doing the whole "international touring act" setup, then chances are that the budget is bigger, more gear is available, ditto for crew, and I'll happily run a multitude of hardware designed specifically for the job I want. But until then, smaller, faster, cheaper and easier is what I am after. And why I got the X32. And why I keep researching and experimenting on ways to do more with less.

 

[Randy Pence]

Re: crossover in the desk

kudos and thanks to all involved behind the webinar videos!

I just went through the video covering dcas and subgroups and have never had a clearer understanding on how to set these up for a mix. I have 2 totally different and complex bands for new years and feel much more confident on how everything should be routed. It'll be my first go on an x32, but there will be some hands on time before the gig.

again, thanks!

 

[Jack Keaton]

Re: crossover in the desk

Im sorry.. But if lugging a 10 pound cross over is a issue then you have a whole set of other problems and If it really was a issue you would of bought amps with dps in them. Further more, if you are going to depend on the board for everything, I would sure hope you buy 2 of them. No back up means no gig. I lug 2 boards, 2 cross overs, and back up amps (thank fully peavey qw series is field replaceable or I would carry extra speakers)

 

[Lance Richens]

Re: crossover in the desk

HOLY SHIT BATMAN! A ten pound crossover?!

 

[Paul Mirtschin]

Re: crossover in the desk

Im sorry.. But if lugging a 10 pound cross over is a issue then you have a whole set of other problems and If it really was a issue you would of bought amps with dps in them. Further more, if you are going to depend on the board for everything, I would sure hope you buy 2 of them. No back up means no gig. I lug 2 boards, 2 cross overs, and back up amps (thank fully peavey qw series is field replaceable or I would carry extra speakers)

You are right, things can go wrong, and spares are always needed.

Where do you store the spare PA, cables, desk, backline, and the spare mix-engineers.

Sorry to be sarcastic, but a few things need to be said.

1. This is Junior Varsity, "... for weekend warriors, hobbyists, and our other "friends with a day job"", not the forum for the pro tour engineers. So things will be a little different.
2. I, and I'm guessing the others here, don't do anything out of the blue without research, testing, or asking a few questions. I'm not going to try a setup live, without testing it at home first. Especially if it is something non-traditional or untested.
3. Backups are great, and I have enough gear available at most gigs to put together a "will do the job" system until a spare desk arrived (and a lot of times I have a small analog desk on hand or nearby). But you don't NEED to have a backup for everything. Only the things that tend to fail often... like cables. The rest comes down to cost, space, time and common-sense.
3.1. Carry what makes sense to carry.
4. See point 1 - this point seems to be forgotten at least once every 12-posts.
5. I've worked on international touring acts that don't bother with spare desks these days. The cost-saving in not having the spare follow you to every gig, covers ANY cost likely to be needed to get a spare desk delivered on the minor chance one fails catastrophically.

I know some people, especially in the area of sound, really don't like to deviate from the norm, from the traditional, and from the way they have always done things. But that doesn't mean that there is no other way to get a job done. Those who have the balls to experiment, to explore, and to buck tradition, are usually the guys who forge new paths into uncharted territory.

And I applaud every one of them.

 

[Chris Clark]

Re: crossover in the desk

I suppose leave the existing multi in alongside the cat5, and use these lines with the old crossovers front of house - but you'll just have to accept that while I appreciate the reasons for not doing it, I now have the ability to do it, so will give it a shot.

Presuming the CAT5 you speak of is from an S16, if you really want to control your crossover from FoH, why not move your crossover to FoH and use some inputs on the X32 directly routed to outputs on the S16 to get the signal processed signal to your amps? Then you get your proper limiting from your processor, proper crossover, you don't have to recreate all your presets in the X32, and you don't have to worry about all the very valid concerns that have been brought up?

 

[Pauly Mel]

Re: X32 using P16-I inputs?

Thanks Al
that's a bugger, but guess my research could have been a bit deeper
pauly

Because ultranet is one direction only and the port on the x32 is an output.
Ultranet and aes50 are also very different so don't try to connect ultranet ports to aes50 ports.

You need an s16.

Hope this helps,
Al

 

[Paul Johnson]

Re: crossover in the desk

Presuming the CAT5 you speak of is from an S16, if you really want to control your crossover from FoH, why not move your crossover to FoH and use some inputs on the X32 directly routed to outputs on the S16 to get the signal processed signal to your amps? Then you get your proper limiting from your processor, proper crossover, you don't have to recreate all your presets in the X32, and you don't have to worry about all the very valid concerns that have been brought up?

Now that idea is a great one! Thank you!

 

[David Buckley]

Re: crossover in the desk

I fail to understand this compunction to eliminate a system processor.

You don't need to, Tim; theres no law that says you have to understand it. People are choosing to make crossing over possible in the console. Some may choose to do that, others will choose not to. For many (perhaps most) system setups, an external crossover box is - today - a sensible thing to have. In others it isn't. For the target marketplace fo the X32, having everything possible in the console more likely. Why? Because the soundman (singular) is responsible for all aspects of setting up and operation. The advantage to Mr small system operator is that all the configuable parts of the system are in one place under the control of one user interface, with a remote control capability, and that makes huge sense in systems of this scale.

'Tis possibly worth mentioning that this scenario is no different to when you do mixing, routing and crossover in a DSP box (eg SoundWeb): when you recall a program you get it back, lock, stock and barell.

So, going for devil's advocate:

Other than freeing up a 1 rack space and about 2.5kg, what is the attraction? Why not just replace your amps with XTI or I-Techs (or similar), or move to powered & processed speakers? Either would make far more sense from a system design perspective.

Ok, now we've agreed that the crossover box is ancient history; the only question is now where it goes. You're clearly accepting to have the crossover in the amps of a pasive system, or integrated into the electronics of an active system, why couldn't they be somewhere else, like say, in a console?

You would have to think though, that with the march of DSP in the console from one end, and from the amplification (either scenario noted above) in the other, you wouldn't want to be in the business of supplying crossovers, any more than being in the business of any other bit of outboard. That marketplace is vanishing.

As I said in a much earlier comment; I'd like the crossover functionality to be a bit more separate in control terms, and entirely seperate in terms of recall, to avoid the sorts of accidents that the unwary will probably make. Perhaps this will be another thing to fall out of the permissions model that is rumoured to be coming...?

 

[Jan Tapak]

X Control v0.91

Hi Chaps,
I wish you nice time in this Christmas time and wish you all the best within whole year 2013.
Xcontrol v0.91:
I am preparing scenes in PC for next event for two X32s and I found out.
Changing the Insert position and Dynamic position in Channel strip sheet Home is not working properly for me. Work around is to write down in “Home” sheet , „PRE“ or „POST“ and press Enter.
For Insert, there is second work around: in the „Config“ sheet left mouse click on the arrow Pre or Post.

Dear Behringer Chaps, I wish you all the best within whole year 2013.
Please, could you check it and make it the same as in version 0.7?

Jan Tapak

 

[Juergen Riemann]

Re: crossover in the desk

I have bought some of the iNuke amps from behringer. They have dsp models with full crossover functionalty and a slick windows UI that allows easy programming. Bought a few of the NU3000DSP's which power my jbl speakers. Sounds great and i am very happy with the setup.

 

[Tim Ringgenberg]

Re: crossover in the desk

I have had my speaker processor in both locations. I use a DBX 260 with remote control. I use to use the remote all the time and it was great to see what was going on and it was easy to make all the changes as the room/mix needs changed. But now I just leave it in the amp rack and very seldom use the remote. Why. With the system properly tuned I find I have to make that many changes anymore. I also find that I never mis-patch the outputs anymore. It happened once. I just did a show where my amp rack was needed for a show and without the cross over the rack would have been useless. Heaven forbid that your board goes down but it can happen. And if it happens then what would you do? Find another board with a cross over built in? I can always use another board with my set up and it is just a plug and play way of doing things. Just a thought my friends. I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.