X32 Discussion

Re: Monitor outs - must be something simple.

Ok looks like a fault - a connection or the pot -

I have routed the monitor left to aux 1 out and monitor right to aux 2 out and coming out re monitor amp so internal routing etc looks ok - it is just getting out via the monitor outs / gain control which is the problem ##b...ger!

Hi Nick,

I have forwarded the issue you are having to Chase McKnight at our Vegas facility.

I also sent you a PM with Chase's direct number and my cell phone number.

We will get you taken care of ASAP, sorry for the troubles.


Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: S16 vs. traditional analog snake

Hi guys!
I came to ask guide from u. I need to buy new snake. I'm just confused what to buy: digital S16 or traditional analog snake 32/8. I'm ordering X32 at ........

-J-



Hello

since you are in position to get some snake anyway - unlike many of us who already has analog snake - I would like to point out couple things to ponder.

- Do you EVER need more than usual 30m / 100ft. If YES - second CAT-cable is small pennies.
- Do you think you can get buy with only 8 returns - twice S16 equals to 32/16 - or 32/32 if you want to use P16
- Obviously lugging 48ch snake of 50 meters versus two S16 and CAT-cable makes big difference.
- If you add the quick setup you have to have multipin connectors on your analog snake to make setup as quick.
- As pointed out by others : how easy it is to pull the cable through more or less drunk audience or lift it up somewhere.

There must be more angels to aproach this issue - I have an analog snake of 30 meters 16/9 and it lets me handle 16 inputs, L R Sub-bass and 6 monitors. Sometimes it has been a bit short ( stagebox with all them cables sticking out on front stage corner of a beautifull concert hall.... ) - more than once I hoped to be able to connect more stuff.. And YES - I did get me two S16 with X32 and I bless that decision.

I have one S16 in a 4 unit rack with 4ch poweramp for monitors - this is handy when going to a place that has adequate pa , but monitoring is what it is.... Just couple own monitors with and that does it.

With the second - I think to put it in main rack with X-over and my pa-amps and perhaps one more 4ch monitor amp.


Hope to bring some help for your decision.

Happy new year to all of you - including folks at Behringer and especially Christian, who has helped us so much.
 
Re: Gator Case

There was some earlier discussion about cases for the X32, and I wanted to share my experiences so far with the Gator case.

I have one case and two more backordered (waiting over a month and a half so far), and have used the case/console on two shows.

It is remarkably sturdy and IMO reasonably priced for what it is. I'm partial to 3 piece cases, where the console armrest is immediately accessible and it appears the console is sitting on a table rather than in a case, and this Gator case makes me happy in that way.

It comes with some odd hard plastic/rubber feet on what is the outside bottom of the case when the console is in use, but which when not in use are invitations to other cases to shear them off. These feet are easily unscrewed without tools from the outside of the case, so they are there if you want them or easily thrown away without damage if you are like me.

When the doghouse lid is open, there are no obstructions inside, and you have full access to the back of the console. The lid is solid, enough so that you can place heavy things on it when it's closed if you desire.

The lousy iPhone pic shows the tray of the case sitting on an EZ Tilt, with the doghouse open. I have since removed the latches for the doghouse lid, as I can't see a reason to put an impediment in the way of getting into the doghouse when the case lid and nose are open, and the case holds the lid shut when it is closed. YMMV.

The interior foam is the very solid foam that I've seen on other Chinese cases, which I like better than the soft foam or the firmer foam that I think is expanded poly-whatever that are on my custom American-made cases.

An especially nice feature is that both sides of the case tray have this hard foam curved to conform to the sides of the console, so that if you are carrying the console in the tray without the case lid and nose, you can tip the whole thing towards the armrest a bit and the console won't slide out as easily as it would if that side foam was not curved. (I wouldn't recommend randomly tipping it like that; there's just a little more safety margin if you do.)

There was also earlier discussion about keeping the underside of the console open to ventilation, and this hard foam will allow the console feet to keep an airspace underneath, at least initially. The second picture shows the inside of the console tray, with depressions from the feet clearly visible. The feet do seem to be burrowing their way into the foam, so some thin plate underneath each foot will likely be necessary at some point to maintain maximum airspace.

Also, FWIW, I can hear the console fan going during quiet events, like those I do so frequently.

In addition to the IMO relatively minor problem of the case weighing almost three times as much as the console itself, the one huge negative of the case is that the stock casters in stock mounting position make the case with console almost automatically fall over when pushed sideways rather than lengthwise.

Picture three shows the stock caster on top of the case (sitting on an irrelevant rackmount ear for better visual positioning), with the stock mounting holes below, and a replacement caster installed as far outboard on the casterboard as physically possible. The stock caster has a much wider mounting flange than the replacement caster, which puts the caster pivoting center more inboard than that of the replacement caster.

You can see the the center of the new caster has moved outboard by over an inch, giving the maximum stability possible, and it's better but not at all great. The console will still tip over when pushed sideways, but the necessary force is greater than with the stock casters. If there was a second case here, the difference could be measured, but regardless, it's not good enough.

Given the relatively narrow thickness of the case/console vs. the height/weight positioning (Center Of Gravity due to the console above the doghouse during transport), I think the only "easy" solution is either a wider casterboard or some bolt-on plates that allow the casters to go further outboard and then be impediments when interacting with other cases during transport.

If the casters and casterboard could be mounted on the nose instead, that would not only lower the COG so that it MIGHT be more stable, but also make the largest lid part lighter and easier to remove and install. However, there is not as much support at the armrest/nose combination as there is at the console-rear/doghouse combination, so I don't trust the integrity of the nose caster configuration. Plus, the nose is held on with only two smallish latches, and I'd want four bigger ones to feel confident that the nose/casters would stay with the rest of the case during rugged transportation situations.

With that one caveat, I think the Gator case is very decent for the money, and I hope that the shipping delay is due to trying to resolve this problem. If not, and the backordered ones arrive identical to the first one, I think it's still a relatively minor problem that I'm willing to solve based on the modest case price.

Hope this is interesting. When I get a chance I'll post my experiences with getting familiar with my first digital console, and my UPS solution.

And sorry for being long-winded, that seems to be my standard state of being. :blush:

.DSC_0287.jpgDSC_0288.jpgIMG_0035.jpg
 
Re: crossover in the desk

I'm not too keen to shoot down ideas, but you are introducing the same vulnerability to scene recall and reset patch changes that you would have when using the X32 to perform the functions on its own. Limiting will be vulnerable to level changes, and you'll be vulnerable to the power up/down/reset pop.
The scene recall/patch change is a valid point, I was going on the assumption that were I doing this, the Routing/Out Patch would more than likely be SAFEd once set, but I can see how a weekly-changing weekend warrior type setup would be otherwise (my background and desire stems typically from an installed or long-term tour type setup, but I know that a lot of people on here are more along the other method). At that point the only fear regarding that would be a full board reset (or meddling fingers until the security functions are in place)...
I'm not sure what you mean about limiting vulnerability, I'm talking about a direct patch (the one I've asked about before - Routing page -> AES50 tab, set a group of outputs to be a group of "Local" inputs completely bypassing any faders). I do know that this would eat some extra X32 inputs in addition to the standard S16 outputs used (that you would presumably be using to some extent to feed the on-stage crossover anyway), so obviously some adjustments are in order if you need more than 24 local inputs.

I guess I don't quite understand how the power pop is any different this way versus any other way - was this not a concern on analog boards anyway (eg if FoH lost power momentarily while the stage rack didn't, etc)? As well, with your XO onstage, if you had the option to mute outputs on powerup then you had to run to the stage mid-set if the power dropped enough to unmute them anyway, or you could leave them set to not mute (or if your XO didn't have auto-muting) and you'd get the pop anyway, wouldn't you?

I guess I'm out of the loop on this idea, understandably so - my main employment is an installation where all the equipment is in a booth - I've toyed with the idea of moving amps to the stage (to shorten the existing speaker runs by about 120 feet) but haven't had the snake capability to do so, I'm looking at this as a possible way to finally make that move, while keeping the XO in the booth for better monitoring and accessibility.
 
Re: Headphone jacks

The other day I had a pair of headphones plugged in and they were working fine using the jacks on the end caps. I plugged a second set of headphones into the jack on the other side and when I did that, the volume was significantly reduced in the headphones to about half and I lost the stereo mix and only one side of each headphone had audio coming through.

Has anyone else had this problem or have any recommendations on how to fix this? Perhaps this is just normal?

thanks in advance!

karl



Hello

I just connected ohm meter between the two outputs ( console power OFF - naturally ) - they seem to be hardwired parallel.

So ANY difference in headphone impedance will upset balance - the lower impedance phones drawing more juice.

Then there is also the question of headphones sensitivity - I understand there can be up to 10 dB variations.

These two things may sum up to 15-20dB balance difference between two sets of headphones.

Therefore one should use equal phones on both sides for best results - or find suitable pair via trial and error.
 
Re: Headphone jacks

Hello

I just connected ohm meter between the two outputs ( console power OFF - naturally ) - they seem to be hardwired parallel.

So ANY difference in headphone impedance will upset balance - the lower impedance phones drawing more juice.

Then there is also the question of headphones sensitivity - I understand there can be up to 10 dB variations.

These two things may sum up to 15-20dB balance difference between two sets of headphones.

Therefore one should use equal phones on both sides for best results - or find suitable pair via trial and error.

Timo,

Thanks a lot for this information! This probably answers the reason for my problem. I will look for matching headphones for both sides when 2 sets of cans are needed.

Karl
 
Re: X32 Discussion

How many more is a few?

Hi Bob,

We had an audio issue with the Sonar webinar. The audio from the Go to My Webinar recording was choppy so we decided to reshoot it next week.

In the mean time I have sent you Dennie Edwards direct phone number. Give him a buzz and he can walk you through anything in Sonar and the X32.

Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

In reference to this, I would ask anyone who feels that there should be protected scenes, to post a request on this forum.

I'm asking. Much like being able to switch the mute group behavior, for live sound protected scenes/scene safes or whatever you want to call it seem like an essential part of the toolkit.

Anything that can help limiting you from shooting yourself in the foot when you are under the gun in the heat of the moment is NOT a luxury!
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

I'm asking. Much like being able to switch the mute group behavior, for live sound protected scenes/scene safes or whatever you want to call it seem like an essential part of the toolkit.

Anything that can help limiting you from shooting yourself in the foot when you are under the gun in the heat of the moment is NOT a luxury!

Please add me to that list, I am asking for that same functionality

Regards
Michael
 
So I remember reading somewhere about not pushing gain levels as high on a digital board as on an analog. Could someone share some insight, especially as it pertains to the X32?
 
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Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

So I remember reading somewhere about not pushing gain levels as high on a digital board as on an analog. Could someone share some insight, especially as it pertains to the X32?

Digital simply has no soft clip. With an analog circuit, gently pushing the levels past 0db could impart some gentle and pleasing distortion. Push digital past 0db and you get pops, clicks, snaps and sometimes what sounds like a thermal core meltdown alarm. The trick is to aim for around -3db for the most part and you are fine. On most modern digital consoles the mix engine does a great job so as long as you make sure you are not clipping individual channels with too much gain you should be fine.
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

<snip> The trick is to aim for around -3db for the most part and you are fine. <snip>

No need to go as high as -3dB, around -18dBFS for nominal level should be about right. -18dBFS gives you about +4dBu at the outputs, which is a common nominal level to aim for, and even maximum level for some equipment.
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

The trick is to aim for around -18db for the most part and you are fine. On most modern digital consoles the mix engine does a great job so as long as you make sure you are not clipping individual channels with too much gain you should be fine.

The meters on a digital mixer are DBFS, the 'FS' standing for Full Scale. At 0 DBFS you are out of 1's. It can't get louder. The actual output voltage at that point is the specified maximum output of the mixer. For the X32, that is +21dBu. If you solo an input and bring up the input trim until it peaks as -18, it's the digital equivalent of "+3 analog."
 
Re: Pre/post fader meters

Hi All,
this is my first post here, I'm the chief AV guy at a church, our existing digital mixer is about ready to bite the dust and we will be getting an X32 soon, so I have been reading everything I can find on the subject, but still have a few questions.

First is about the meters, are they post or pre fader? Can they be changed? What I would really like is to have the meters in the channel strip be post fader and the meters in the meter page be pre fader, is this possible? I have been trying out Xcontrol and have not seen any thing that relates to this.

Thanks,

John S.
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

Digital simply has no soft clip. With an analog circuit, gently pushing the levels past 0db could impart some gentle and pleasing distortion. Push digital past 0db and you get pops, clicks, snaps and sometimes what sounds like a thermal core meltdown alarm. The trick is to aim for around -3db for the most part and you are fine. On most modern digital consoles the mix engine does a great job so as long as you make sure you are not clipping individual channels with too much gain you should be fine.

Remembering that all digital mixers have an analog circuit at (at least) one point.

If the clipping is on the analog side of the A/D and D/A converters, clipping will be analogue, and will usually be a "soft-clip" (where the signal distorts/compresses). That's fine, and on the X32 seems quite nice.

If the clipping occurs inside the digital side, that clipping is bad. Each end of those waveforms stop at 0dBFS, with nothing in the middle, except for the wincing as the drivers pop. And any damage that might result in.

As long as you know where the clipping is occurring, you can use it to your benefit.
 
Re: S16 vs. traditional analog snake

Okay guys! Thank you for you help. You really made my think these things. My final conclusion was to order X32 + S16 + cabledrum with 50meters of cat5. I'll maybe buy second S16 later if needed.

-J-
 
Re: Monitor outs - must be something simple.

Thanks Joe,

I have had a message from Chase with an offer to sort it out - but unfortunately I am in the UK so will probably need to contact Kidderminster. Luckily I have a work around by routing via the aux's so not too urgent but will want to get it sorted in the new year,

all the best and thanks again for the rapid response to the issue

Hi Nick,

I have forwarded the issue you are having to Chase McKnight at our Vegas facility.

I also sent you a PM with Chase's direct number and my cell phone number.

We will get you taken care of ASAP, sorry for the troubles.


Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
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Gain levels (Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes)

So I remember reading somewhere about not pushing gain levels as high on a digital board as on an analog. Could someone share some insight, especially as it pertains to the X32?

remember on a digital board the meters are dbfs and anything above 0 dbfs is clipping - to maintain head room your meters should be around -20 to -18 dbfs (which equates to O dbu on an analogue desk )- you will notice the meter colour changes when above the optimal level


(altered the title of the reply to the post!!)
 
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Dynamic Automation

Occasionally I have posted saying it would be good if some form of dynamic automation was incorporated to allow mixdown of recordings using the full facilities of the X32 - EQ, Dynamics and effects.

"Thinking aloud" This may be problematic to implement on the desk itself but not impossible. But I was thinking could it be implemented using the Xcontrol - i.e arm channels for recording here and then record the OSC data (with time stamps/parameter) for playback. There is however the issue of aligning playback of audio to sync with this - which would mean some form of transport control to start the audio and automation file in sync - mmhhh on second thoughts maybe easier to do within the X32 - say a separate screen to arm the channels for recording/playback and transport ( via the USB/Firewire card interface)- maybe recording the OSC data to a USB stick.

Would just love to see it incorporated somehow !