X32 Discussion

I am also confused... and concerned about the choice of Ultranet in behalf of AES50 and of course the non-ethercon approach in comparison that they have implemented powercon. I have posted my thoughts in the iQ thread http://soundforums.net/showthread.php?t=6268 and also on the Behringer forum in this thread http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?710-New-iQ-series-and-iNUKE-12k

In my attempts to understand Behringer's decision of design using the Ultranet instead of AES, I was starting to hope that there is more, yet disclosed capability in the Ultranet interface. If you read their product information about the iQ series they state the following

####
"What is ULTRANET?

In addition to XLR and 1/4" TRS inputs, we’ve equipped each iQ loudspeaker with our proprietary ULTRANET technology,which was first introduced on our best-selling X32 Digital Mixer, P16 Personal Monitoring System and S16 Digital Snake. ULTRANET uses CAT5 cables to transmit multi-channel audio signals and other information between other ULTRANET enabled products."
####

As they state in the last sentence ... Multi channel audio and other information... Is that DSP remote control?

But if their Ultranet implementation is as stated earlier in this thread - dual balanced ADAT, there will be no space for more audio and control.

In order to get some of my confusion sorted out I posted a request on the Behringer forum for a white paper / Design document describing their intentions when painting the x series and other networked related products.
http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?718-Ecosystem-Documentation-x32-s16-p16-aes-Ultranet-iQ
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Of course, we could be misreading the aim of having Ultranet rather than AES50 on the speakers.
They could have been designed to work with the iX16 rather than the X32.
Mind you, it would be helpful if someone with knowledge of all the products concerned could chip in with info on how to get the full X32 system to work with these speakers.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Karl Barnes said:
Of course, we could be misreading the aim of having Ultranet rather than AES50 on the speakers.
They could have been designed to work with the iX16 rather than the X32.
Mind you, it would be helpful if someone with knowledge of all the products concerned could chip in with info on how to get the full X32 system to work with these speakers.
Click to expand...

If that's their rational, then my next question would be "Why doesn't the iX16 have AES50?" My guess is a combination of cost and wanting to differentiate their products from each other ("but if you upgrade to an X32 you get AES50..."), but I think it's short sighted. AES50 is hands down a better bus.

One fix would be to develop an AES50 to Ultranet/ADAT/other-digital-i/o widget. The S16 does that to some extent, but I'm talking about something that's just a format converter and doesn't have mic pres. Plus, the S16 doesn't have a clock. That would give you all the digital i/o you could at FOH for interfacing with other devices and also on the stage to talk to a bunch of Ultranet gear.
 
Re: IQ speakers

Karl Barnes said:
Daniel, you have a good point (sorry for ignoring it in the other thread).
I must read up about how to send the bus outputs to the ADAT interface.
However, in order to use this, I'll still need to shell out for a P16i.
That's another £250 on top of the cost of the speakers.
Not as good as an 'out of the box' solution, is it?
Then there's the RJ45s.....
Click to expand...

It's not necessary to buy a p16i. If you have an S16 you can set up two, independent Ultranet buses from the X32 and the S16 (or from two S16's) by manipulating the routing on the X32.
 
Dear All,

I wanted to address some topics that have been raised here and answer with facts about quality assurance on the X32. But before we get into the details, allow me to put it all into context.

3-Year Warranty Program
When you purchase and register your X32 (or any other BEHRINGER product) you participate in a full 3-Year Warranty Program and we will stand behind you and your X32. Not only are we here to support you in the event of an issue, but as you can see our Care and Product Specialist teams have been proactively engaging users on forums, Facebook, Twitter and everywhere else that you communicate to make your experience truly exceptional.

We Have Invested in CARE Centers in the US and UK
We have invested in two highly sophisticated CARE centers in Las Vegas and Kidderminster, UK which serve as service centers and spare part depots. If you find time, we would like to invite you and we will be more than happy to tour you around. We have learned from our previous experiences and made Service and Spare Parts a core focus. While we are not perfect, I hope you have seen over the past months that we have made great progress and we are determined to offer the very best customer support in the industry. Check out more details on our CARE centers here:
MUSIC Group Aims for Best in Class CARE Operations - Behringer News

We Understand How You Feel About Defects
I see and acknowledge posts stating that “if BEHRINGER had done their job at the factory” and understand the frustration some may feel if they should encounter an issue with a new console. Nothing could be more disappointing than to take the unit out of the box and find that it is in some way less than you expected, especially when you are spending that much money. However, as painful as that may be for you, please know that it is doubly painful for us; especially after the care we take to avoid such issues.

There are three key reasons why users may experience such issues with brand new product; and no, failure to test at the factory is not one of them. More on that later.

Cable Routing
The first reason is related to start-up issues such as the cable misrouting that has affected a small number of units out of the 30,000 X32s built thus far. While regrettable, such issues affect all manufacturers whether they are building cars or mixers or planes as recently seen with the Boeing Dreamliner; the real test is how it is handled once discovered.

I am proud of how our teams have handled such issues as we monitor closely our customers’ experiences and reported incidents, identify cause at a very early stage and fix it immediately. Again, we stand behind our customers and have fixed all issues as they appeared.

Why Shipping Has a Big Impact
Over the past months, we have received products for repair even though the customer claimed it was originally packed and the packaging was not damaged. We have investigated some of these cases and seen some damage which has been caused by high impact consistent with dropping from a height or other abuse during transport. While no product can be protected from all impact, we have since further improved the packaging and re-enforced the polyfoam the unit is embedded in as well as the carton thickness.

Why Some “Defects” are Not Defects
With the X32 we put unprecedented value and functionality into the hands of customers which often come from the analog world. While the mixer has a very intuitive workflow and short learning curve, it is expected that there is some form of learning required, especially as we offer the functionality of high-end digital consoles for a fraction of our competitors’ prices. As a consequence, we sometimes receive defect reports that are traced to user errors and simple misunderstandings, while the console is in perfect condition. Upon explanation, the issue is quickly resolved, but in reality the unit was never defective.

We have also received a few consoles where customers complain about defective faders or broken pot knobs. On inspection we have found liquid that was spilled into the faders, broken encoders where the shafts have been sheared off and other damage that is clearly caused by improper handling, impact and that age-old issue of spilled drinks in the bar. Of course such defects are not caused by us as a manufacturer.

We have also seen posts in forums where a customer will complain about defects and when we follow up, we get no response or feedback about serial numbers. Sadly we have now a strong suspicion that some of our competitors post “fake” messages to cause uncertainty. This is disappointing as we believe companies should compete on the merits of their products and service, not with deceitful practices.

How Do We Test Our Products?
This brings us to the central element here – how do we test the units at the factory to ensure they leave in perfect condition? Coincidentally, we have been working on a video that follows the whole manufacturing process behind the X32 so that users can see how their consoles are made. It is fascinating to watch the whole process, as this is the most advanced and thoroughly-tested product we have ever made under the BEHRINGER brand.

Not surprisingly, the very same manufacturing equipment, processes and quality assurance methods as used on MIDAS products are also applied to the X32. In fact some of our most senior MIDAS UK engineers have relocated to our factory in order to best supervise the build and test processes not only of MIDAS consoles but the X32 as well. The team doesn’t get much more experienced or capable than this and I am extremely proud of their work. I have posted a clip from the QA process here:
X32 Production Testing - YouTube

What you don’t see in this video is the work that takes place before final assembly testing. Each component that goes into an X32 is tested; not just samples, but each and every component. Sub-assemblies are tested through In-Circuit Testers and the results measured, with only those that pass all tests finding their way into the console.

We invest several hours in the testing of every X32 long before it gets to the stage shown in the video clip. But even at that point we invest the time to check every input, every output, every control and every switch. We measure noise, THD, frequency response and every other parameter supported by our highly sophisticated Audio Precision test stations.

Why Testing is Much More Economic Than Repair
It is critical to understand that anything is less costly than returning a unit for repair. Returning, repairing or exchanging a unit is ALWAYS more expensive than avoiding problems from the start.
It is common knowledge in manufacturing that the higher your production volume gets, the more the risk increases as one single component defect can cause tremendous damage. You see this in the car industry where recalls often affect millions of cars.

It is also a myth to believe that alleged usage of sub-par components and skipping of testing would be a cost saving. In fact it is exactly the opposite.
Any defect in the field is more expensive than preventing it from the start and hence our huge investment in people, high-end production equipment and quality control.

Thank You.
Last week we attended the annual NAMM show where we were humbled once again with recognition from the industry for our many new products and especially the X32.

Among the many accolades we were awarded the coveted Reader’s Choice Award by ProSoundWeb.com, recognized as a finalist for a TEC Award and even received the “Best in Show” Award from Pro Sound News and Pro Audio Review.
What we are most proud of however are the many, many stories we heard from dealers and users of how much they love the X32.

Lastly, allow me to close by expressing my personal gratitude for the confidence placed in the X32 by the thousands of buyers already enjoying this great piece of technology, worldwide.

I feel that the X32 is the ultimate expression of the very principle on which I founded this company 24 years ago; to deliver the very best product at the lowest possible cost.

The X32 is already shaking the industry to its core and frankly within the shortest period of time, the X32 has become the best-selling digital console in the industry; and the trend is even going upwards.

Most important, rest assured that when you buy an X32 we will ensure that it becomes a great experience and we will stand behind you. Always.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: X32 Offline Scene File Editor

Mark Petersen said:
Uhhh, yes... Obviously. However, it's painfully slow, and extremely inaccurate that way.

I've already written a utility of my own that grabs scenes from the X32, imports them into MS Excell for editing, and allows you to save them back to the X32. Doing it this way is, first off, much faster, and secondly, I can see every bit of data saved in a scene laid out on one screen, ready to be edited. I can also see all data fields of multiple scenes laid out one after another on the same screen for comparison this way.

I was just curious to see what others are coming up with. I ran into some odd communications problems that had to be dealt with in my utility, and I'm curious to see how others dealt with, or got around them. But thanks anyway.
Click to expand...

Be nice if you posted a copy of that somewhere and how to use it.... I'd really like something like that
 
Ready to roll!

HoW Installation is finally complete, and I get to have my first crack at the X32 tonight!!!
:D~:-D~:grin:

What are some of the creative ways you guys are using the user assigned encoders and buttons?
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Steve Maksim said:
If that's their rational, then my next question would be "Why doesn't the iX16 have AES50?" My guess is a combination of cost and wanting to differentiate their products from each other ("but if you upgrade to an X32 you get AES50..."), but I think it's short sighted. AES50 is hands down a better bus.

One fix would be to develop an AES50 to Ultranet/ADAT/other-digital-i/o widget. The S16 does that to some extent, but I'm talking about something that's just a format converter and doesn't have mic pres. Plus, the S16 doesn't have a clock. That would give you all the digital i/o you could at FOH for interfacing with other devices and also on the stage to talk to a bunch of Ultranet gear.
Click to expand...

I replyed to the Behringer future request thread couple of days ago regarding using a X32Core as a AES recorder. There i ended up with a request (wish/dream) that the XUF cards could shrink ... this ended up with an idea using x32Core as a network bridge....

From the thread Does BEHRINGER plan to make ____ product? (Product Requests) - Page 2

For recording AES, the cheapest solution would probably be an x32 Core - as is - with an attached computer or iPad running Auria or Cubase.

Yes a X32 compact with a multi channel recording card will cater for the onboard 16 ch (+aux) analog and AES50 recording perfectly.

But, what if, my card slot is occupied by another interface card, like the pre announced MADI?
Yes, i could buy a X32 Core to use as a bridge to AES50 and MADI and then put the recording card in the console.

I have thought about the card slot in the x-series... It has a quiet large physical footprint. Very large compared to MY interface cards.
If the card backplane in the X series has bandwith enough, and the X architecture would cater, my idea is to provide a dual card slot adapter/dual backplane that can cater 2 interface cards with smaller form factor, and release all future interface cards in a small (half) form factor. This would provide the user with 2 interface slots - CARD A and B.
This would provide an upcoming USB multitrack recording card AND future audio interface cards as MADI/ADAT etc. This could also turn an X32Core into a very capable bridge unit.

Yes, i know i am probably dreaming :) but it would be excellent !​
 
Re: IQ speakers

Karl Barnes said:
Short of these speakers coming in at <£500 each and sounding amazing, I'll be looking at a Yamaha DSR system in the near future.
Click to expand...


Yes i know... wrong topic... but...
The DSR´s have been on top on my speaker shopping list for a while after comparing the K/KW, ELX and SRX.
Now i consider to await the iQ´s and see if they can compete. I think the DSR´s sound awesome, in particular the 12" and 15".
Anyone out there who has run these with the 118 subs in some venues? How do they compete to the KW181 and XLF´s ?

Would be nice to hear your thoughts at what level (compared to JBL/EV/RCF/QSC) you think the iQ will settle . Will they challenge and shake the solid ground as they did with the x32? Is there anyone who has seen some more tech data (response, SPL etc) ?
It will be interesting later this year to try them out through the full envelope in a venue.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Uli Behringer said:

Why Testing is Much More Economic Than Repair
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing this. I have been trying to drive this point home with different people I encounter who don't understand that companies relying on low margin high volume sales must be even more cautious regarding minimizing field failures. No company that wants to be profitable ships something that they know is likely to fail, that is a recipe for bankruptcy.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Jon Malmstrom said:
I replyed to the Behringer future request thread couple of days ago regarding using a X32Core as a AES recorder. There i ended up with a request (wish/dream) that the XUF cards could shrink ... this ended up with an idea using x32Core as a network bridge....

From the thread Does BEHRINGER plan to make ____ product? (Product Requests) - Page 2

For recording AES, the cheapest solution would probably be an x32 Core - as is - with an attached computer or iPad running Auria or Cubase.

This would provide an upcoming USB multitrack recording card AND future audio interface cards as MADI/ADAT etc. This could also turn an X32Core into a very capable bridge unit.
​
Click to expand...

Having two cards would be great.

I like the idea of using the Core as a bridge. It does bring up, though, what I consider one of the weakest points of the X32: input selection in blocks of 8. For a bridge to be really useful, we need to no kidding be able to select any input, even in onesies, twosies across many different banks.

Completely open routing would be the best fix to the "problem" with Ultranet for P-16's and iQ's , since then it would be very easy to have each X32 and S16 able to host a new Ultranet feed.
 
Re: X32 Discussion

Uli Behringer said:

Why Shipping Has a Big Impact
Over the past months, we have received products for repair even though the customer claimed it was originally packed and the packaging was not damaged. We have investigated some of these cases and seen some damage which has been caused by high impact consistent with dropping from a height or other abuse during transport. While no product can be protected from all impact, we have since further improved the packaging and re-enforced the polyfoam the unit is embedded in as well as the carton thickness.
Click to expand...


I just checked the US distributor portal and they now list the shipping dimensions for the X32 shipping carton at 41"x31"x14". If that is accurate it is 1" larger than the maximum standard shipping dimension of 130" combined girth and length allowed by US package carriers. That will make it an "OS3" class package and will more than double the cost of ground shipping. The aggregate expense of shipping a box that size to the dealer, then the dealer shipping it to a customer will add considerably to the cost of each mixer.
 
Re: IQ speakers

Steve, are you saying that I can set up one 16 channel Ultranet on the X32 using the local output and another on the S16s at the other end of the AES50 snake?
That sounds almost too good to be true.
 
Re: IQ speakers

Uli,

Please explain the reason for NOT using a neutrik connector for the ultranet!

It's all very nice posting your long explanations about stuff, but you really don't need to copy paste the same points over and over while leaving straight forward questions ignored.

I'm sure it would have been cheaper for you to bulk buy the neutrik connecotrs only? Instead of having to source two kinds of rj45 connectors?

For someone buying into the x32 range it's all about cost savings, i'm sure you get that. But put yourself in the shoes of someone who is buying a cable trunk for their behringer system including x32, headphone system, your new loudspeakers, etc. That person would love to buy just a chunk of cat5 of various lengths all with neutrik ends. But because of one seemingly pointless descision by you we are unable to do this :(
 
Re: IQ speakers

Karl Barnes said:
Steve, are you saying that I can set up one 16 channel Ultranet on the X32 using the local output and another on the S16s at the other end of the AES50 snake?
That sounds almost too good to be true.
Click to expand...

There are some caveats, but, yes, you can. There's no mode selection for what comes out the Ultranet port on the X-32 like there is on the S-16, so I think that whatever you enter in "p16 out" is what's going to come out of the Ultranet jack on the X-32. But by changing the mode on the S-16 (see the table near the end of the S-16 documentation) you can change what appears on the S-16's Ultranet jack.

I wrote about it back on page 205 and my example was two separate Ultranet networks for P-16's.

It comes down to two main things: a) matching up blocks of 8 on the AES50 feed to an S-16 and selecting the appropriate mode on the S-16 to get those blocks to whatever ports you want and b) figuring out how to get the signal you want onto the correct AES50 feed.

I think I covered a) sufficiently in the other post, but feel free to ask questions.

I don't think I covered b) sufficiently, since I was still sorting through a bit of it. Here's a better go at it:

When you look an AES50 feed under routing on the X32, most of the blocks of 8 listed don't offer what I'll describe as "patchbay" functionality. For example, you can assign a "AES50A 1-8" to be the direct outs from "Local 25-32," but you're bound to physically patching those points there that you specifically want.

The blocks of 8 that offer "patchbay" functionality within the X32 are all at the end of the list, specifically Out 1-8 & 9-16, P16 1-8 & 9-16, and Aux 1-6/Mon. The "patchbays" for these five blocks are in the 2nd through 4th tabs of the routing section on the X32.

(There are potentially four more blocks of 8 that offer "patchbay" functionality, but it would be outboard: The labeling is somewhat vague, and I don't have an S-16 to test this with. If the Card blocks on the AES50 routing tabs refers to the card returns--that is, not the carcd sends--, then you could send channels over to a DAW and shuffle things around there before bringing the desired routing back on the returns. I can't figure out a way to test this without an S-16.)
 
Re: IQ speakers

James, you don't need Ethercons to connect the various AES50 and Ultranet components of the X32 system.
Everything will connect with just RJ45. The Ethercon provides a more robust aspect to the locking connection, but it's still RJ45 where the cable connects.
The Ethercon is just a metal cover for the RJ45 (OK, so the locking arm on the RJ45 has to be removed to use Ethercon, but it's the same physical connector).
Van Damme do versions of their Tourcat cable with and without Ethercons. I even think that Canford do Tourcat with Ethercon at one end and normal RJ45 at the other.
It's not the end of the world.
Even the Neutrik Cat5 extenders allow either plain RJ45 or Ethercon.
With my X32 system I use Cat5 snakes with Ethercon at both ends and RJ45 Cat5 for my Ultranet runs.
It's all cable at the end of the day.

Karl.
 
Re: Firmware:1.12

Jan Tapak said:
Hi Chaps.

Please, how many of you upgraded X32 to Firmware:1.12?
Is there any problem?
Are encoders working properly?
I have found some problems on Behringer forum:

Firmware 1.12 encoders problem

Thank in advance for your answer.

Jan Tapak
Click to expand...


Hello Jan,

I've sent you a PM so we can discuss this in a little more detail.

I look forward to speaking with you.:razz:

Kind Regards
Jim Knowles
CARE EMEA / Tech Support
Music Group / BEHRINGER
 
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