X32 Discussion

Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

I'd call it a rounding error. The different pairs in a cat 5 wire have a different number of twists per foot. This can result in slightly different overall lengths of the wire. Depending on how the tester is rounding, the difference can be quite a bit less than the 2 feet it is indicating. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless the values are massively different.
 
Re: Problem with fader!

Bruno Esposito said:
Some of you have a problem with the faders?:?~:-?~:???:
The one on my 6 channel, when i switch between the layers if it go in the 0 position remain there, instead to return where it should be.
It become a little by little but now the failure are persistent.
I've contacted the customer care yesterday, i hope they respond as soon as possible!:(~:-(~:sad:
(sorry for my eng :blush:)
Click to expand...
Ok the problem it's solved but the mixer turn back with another one!!:(~:-(~:sad:
This time on the fader n 2!
I post a video to explain clearly
The situation starting to be a little annoying and worrying because the mixer has 4 month and i still not used it for a live session!!
 
Re: Problem with fader!

Dear Bruno,

I am very sorry this has happened. I shall contact you via our company system so we can resolve this issue.


Kind Regards,
Fiona Hammond
CARE EMEA
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: Problem with fader!

Fiona Hammond said:
Dear Bruno,

I am very sorry this has happened. I shall contact you via our company system so we can resolve this issue.


Kind Regards,
Fiona Hammond
CARE EMEA
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Click to expand...
Thank you Fiona I appreciated your immediate calling, i don't know if it is a transport damage (I hope ;) ) or other.
I'll wait monday for a contact with the italian warranty service.
Meanwhile praise for the quality of customer service efficiently.
Here in Italy only HP treated me in the same way and just for a defective printer cartridge!
Thank you again!
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Dan Mortensen said:
Motivated by the info below, I spent a little while this afternoon trying to see what happens when a CAT5e cable is bent, kinked, stomped on, and otherwise messed with while connected between the X32 and an S16. There were two cables, first one of the Belden Data Tuff described earlier in the thread (but not the same one, this one was only 10' long), and then a generic chunk of cable that probably came from Monoprice or someplace similar.
Click to expand...

I don't understand. You first say that the issue is closed, but then you open it up again.

I was thinking that the AES50 receiver was not able to cope with whatever common-mode interference might be traveling down the mains cable despite a claimed specification. Just because a specification is written doesn't mean that the product is going to adhere to it.
 
Re: Problem with fader!

I am here sadly to report my frozen/dead movement dca fader issue on the x32, 4 months old. :(. I have put in a warranty rma request off the behringer site, and pm'd Pat F on here... no response as yet. I was hoping to not have to evaluate behringer customer care but alas, here I sit. Let's see what you got.
 
Re: Problem with fader!

Shane Presley said:
I am here sadly to report my frozen/dead movement dca fader issue on the x32, 4 months old. :(. I have put in a warranty rma request off the behringer site, and pm'd Pat F on here... no response as yet. I was hoping to not have to evaluate behringer customer care but alas, here I sit. Let's see what you got.
Click to expand...

Hi Shane,

Thank you for sending me the PM today. As per my response we are committed to addressing this quickly. As the request on the website was submitted after hours US time, I have located and assigned it to my best resources for immediate attention. In the meantime, I know that you will be swapping out the X32 tomorrow, so please send me a PM with any further details on the fader.

Regards,

Pat Ferdig
VP, Care
MUSIC Group
 
Re: Problem with fader!

Pat Ferdig said:
Hi Shane,

Thank you for sending me the PM today. As per my response we are committed to addressing this quickly. As the request on the website was submitted after hours US time, I have located and assigned it to my best resources for immediate attention. In the meantime, I know that you will be swapping out the X32 tomorrow, so please send me a PM with any further details on the fader.

Regards,

Pat Ferdig
VP, Care
MUSIC Group
Click to expand...

Thanks for getting back to me Pat... Details to follow
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Aaron Hammett said:
I don't understand. You first say that the issue is closed, but then you open it up again.

I was thinking that the AES50 receiver was not able to cope with whatever common-mode interference might be traveling down the mains cable despite a claimed specification. Just because a specification is written doesn't mean that the product is going to adhere to it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've been discussing multiple issues.

The issue that I regard as closed is the one about how wrapping Cat5 cable around an AC cable puts it at the ragged edge of performing or not. That, I firmly believe, is incorrect based on credible anecdotal evidence found so far.

The issue that was under discussion in the post you quote is "can bending, stomping on, kinking, etc. a Cat 5 cable disrupt the connection between the console and the S16?", as alleged by a couple posters (including me), and a corollary issue, "does wrapping a Cat 5 cable around a ferrous object disrupt/affect the connection?". The answer so far to both of these is "not when I'm trying to do it, although experts say yes".

Agreed about specs and the meeting of them, but I've seen nothing alleging that the Behringer products are not meeting specs, and have absolutely no reason to suspect they don't.

Do you have different answers to any of these issues, along with some sort of evidence? With all due respect, you made a very strong statement with little ambiguity in your post about wrapping Cat5 and AC which scared the crap out of me, while your second paragraph above which apparently explains your reasoning is much more vague.
 
Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

X-Heads,
you know what the problem with those Germans is? They always come in "krauts"...especially, when the local choir celebrates its annual concert:-)
Anyway, I had to mix this show but on the same day I had to provide my own X32 console for another show, that was mixed by a friend of me. So, I needed a desk for the choir job and so I did what I always did, when I'm in short supply of digital mixers:

I drove to the Behringers guys and moaned the whole day until the gave me a desk, just to get rid of me.
Sadly the gave me one of the newer designs...a X32 Compact. And I truly wish, they had give me a regular X32 console instead.

To put it in a nutshell...I instantly fell in love with the Compact!!!
It is very easy to operate, as long as you are familiar with the X32 console..and it is unsurprisingly really "compact". I hope Behringer will provide some kind of softbag for the X32 Compact&Producer.
It is really lightweight and a softbag would be great. In addition I really like the new rubber-like buttons. The whole desk reminds me a bit of an Midas Pro1...just for the overall look&size.
During the job I used some drastic eq-settings to get the choir as loud as the band, but the Compact gave me all tools, that I needed for the job. And I'm still surprised, how good the build in reverbs sound.
At the end the choir got standing ovations and as a immediate result for the soundcrew: We are already booked for the next jobs.

Now I'm holding the wolf by the ears. Till now I thought, I want to buy an X32 Rack as a companion fpr my X32 Console...seems, that my shopping list just got longer. Kneedeep in an overdraft.

Damm you...Behringer guys!

Christian

Some pics-->


DSC_0001.jpgDSC_0003.jpgDSC_0005.jpgDSC_0012.jpgDSC_0015.jpgDSC_0017.jpg
 
Re: Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

Robert Lofgren said:
Christian,
Given your experience with the x32-standard, what pro/con did you conclude when comparing them both?
Click to expand...

The Compact is easier to move around, especially when you are on your own. Mixingwise it is quite similar to the X32 Console, but you have to embrace the four layers for the 32 mic inputs on the Compact.
I always put the most dynamic/important signals on the first layer and use lot's of DCAs for the rest. So the drawback is the 8 vs 16 channels for each layer. The other cuts (like the bus send encoders)... I don't miss them, I rarely use them on the X32 console anyway.
One nice detail on the Compact. The low cut and the frequencyy encoder of the EQ have now an printed frequency read out, so that you don't have to necessarily look at EQ display when doing fast/rough EQ settings.
And I'm really not sure on this, but it seems, that the motorfader seems to be a bit faster and more precise in comparison to my desk. But I may be wrong on this.

Christian
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Dan Mortensen said:
The issue that was under discussion is "can bending, stomping on, kinking, etc. a Cat 5 cable disrupt the connection between the console and the S16?", as alleged by a couple posters (including me), and a corollary issue, "does wrapping a Cat 5 cable around a ferrous object disrupt/affect the connection?". The answer so far to both of these is "not when I'm trying to do it, although experts say yes".
Click to expand...

I'm not by any means an expert, but I would tend to believe it possibly could "disrupt the (AES50) connection" if one would attempt to bend/wrap/step on a "live" Data Cable, as many Cable properties would "dynamically" change.

FWIW, below are the results of my "non-scientific", "static" tests on Staples Brand Cat6 Patch cable.
I did try to recreate all possible, discussed earlier scenarios, though I didn't do (forgot) a cable "pinch" test.

"Power Cable Wrap" test is with 1700W "static" load on the extension cable.

CAT6_Torture_1.jpgStaples CAT6_1.jpg
CAT6_Torture_2.jpgStaples CAT6_2.jpg
CAT6_Torture_3.jpgStaples CAT6_3.jpg
CAT6_Torture_4.jpgStaples CAT6_4.jpg
 
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Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Victor Kouli said:
I'm not by any means an expert, but I would tend to believe it possibly could "disrupt the (AES50) connection" if one would attempt to bend/wrap/step on a "live" Data Cable, as many Cable properties would "dynamically" change.

FWIW, below are the results of my "non-scientific", "static" tests on Staples Brand Cat6 Patch cable.
I did try to recreate all possible, discussed earlier scenarios, though I didn't do (forgot) a cable "pinch" test.

"Power Cable Wrap" test is with 1700W "static" load on the extension cable.

View attachment 6306View attachment 6307
View attachment 6308View attachment 6309
View attachment 6310View attachment 6311
View attachment 6312View attachment 6313
Click to expand...

Hi Victor,

This is quite wonderful! However, I haven't the foggiest notion of what any of it means, or what that Fluke gizmo is, or that any of it argues against the big "PASSED" checkmark in the upper right, which I ASSume means that despite all the torture, the cable is still passing data acceptably. Yes? No?

Please explain.

And thanks for doing all this. Your measurements appear to be the real deal, or at least the closest we've seen yet.

Thanks!

Dan

PS And how does Cat 6 differ for our X32 purposes? I thought we were supposed to use Cat 5e...
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

The Fluke tester Victor used is the "SMAART/TEF/Systune" of Structured cable measurement with a cost to match just under $10k as I recall, we have on in the IT dept of the University where I work, we test every Cat6/A cable we pull to make sure it is installed correctly and will work for anything we might throw at it over the next 10+ years.

Each of the graphs on the right side of the image is a measurement of some relevant parameter. Thing like Near End cross(X) Talk, Return Loss, etc. The jagged curves are the measurements for each pair, separate smooth line is test limit.

The big check mark is what matters, the detail tells you about what is close to causing problems. It would be interesting to see a long (200'+) cable tested under the same circumstances. Some errors are end/termination related while others are length related.

As for Cat6 vs Cat5e it's a higher spec cable that can pass signal at higher frequency/data rate. There's even such a thing as Cat6A which goes even further. You can also always use a higher spec/category of cable with out problems.

Philip
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Philip Roberts said:
The Fluke tester Victor used is the "SMAART/TEF/Systune" of Structured cable measurement with a cost to match just under $10k as I recall, we have on in the IT dept of the University where I work, we test every Cat6/A cable we pull to make sure it is installed correctly and will work for anything we might throw at it over the next 10+ years.

Each of the graphs on the right side of the image is a measurement of some relevant parameter. Thing like Near End cross(X) Talk, Return Loss, etc. The jagged curves are the measurements for each pair, separate smooth line is test limit.

The big check mark is what matters, the detail tells you about what is close to causing problems. It would be interesting to see a long (200'+) cable tested under the same circumstances. Some errors are end/termination related while others are length related.

As for Cat6 vs Cat5e it's a higher spec cable that can pass signal at higher frequency/data rate. There's even such a thing as Cat6A which goes even further. You can also always use a higher spec/category of cable with out problems.

Philip
Click to expand...

Thanks, Philip, that helps a lot.

To an ignorant person, all the graphs for the same parameters look about the same; are you seeing something significantly different that's worthy of mention?

Agree about the 200' cable. I was wondering the same thing about the kinking, since that was the length that I had the problem in. Taxes are done, so maybe I can get to that tomorrow.

Thanks again,
Dan
 
Re: Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

Christian Boche said:
The Compact is easier to move around, especially when you are on your own. Mixingwise it is quite similar to the X32 Console, but you have to embrace the four layers for the 32 mic inputs on the Compact.
I always put the most dynamic/important signals on the first layer and use lot's of DCAs for the rest. So the drawback is the 8 vs 16 channels for each layer. The other cuts (like the bus send encoders)... I don't miss them, I rarely use them on the X32 console anyway.
One nice detail on the Compact. The low cut and the frequencyy encoder of the EQ have now an printed frequency read out, so that you don't have to necessarily look at EQ display when doing fast/rough EQ settings.
And I'm really not sure on this, but it seems, that the motorfader seems to be a bit faster and more precise in comparison to my desk. But I may be wrong on this.

Christian
Click to expand...

I must admit that if I had known that something like the compact was coming out I may have waited and opted for that in preference to the x32 - mainly due to size and portability.
However - what I would like to see added to the x32 family is something like the compact BUT without the on board I/O except for aux in/out to be used with S16s -( and therefore a bit lower in price) -!!!possibly the spare room at the back could be used to add another expansion slot!!!!
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Dan, et al - I had a two more glitches this this morning (luckily both during rehearsal, and not during our church service)... the first time i thought i saw someone walking over the cable, but I still couldn't manage to reproduce it, no matter how hard i stood on the cable, in the exact same place. The second time - rehearsal had finished, nobody was on any mics/instruments, and nobody in the room was moving, let alone near the cable - yet, it still happened... which deepens the mystery. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to narrow this down to whether it's an X32 problem, an S16 problem (without pulling out the heavy old snake), or possibly a power problem? My snake cable runs next to, but not intertwined with, a single power cable for FoH, and a VGA cable....
 
Multitracking with Reaper: How to get Reaper MASTER back to the X32?

I will ask the same question in the Reaper forum: How do I get the MASTER channel in Reaper only to the selected AUX and off track one and 2? Have been watching the Tutorial and I get it to the Auxes, I select, but I still keep them on Track 1 and 2. Getting a bit desperate, but I think it is a simple thing. Does anybody have a quick advice or even a setup for that purpose?
I finally ordered my X32 + S16 from Germany and received the stuff within a week, but now have limited time to get familiar with it.
Every minute I spend on the console amazes me more, but it is a steep learning curve for someone not even really familiar with analog mixing.

Regards from Hanoi
 
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