X32 Discussion

Re: Multitracking with Reaper: How to get Reaper MASTER back to the X32?

Ok, have searched the forum and can't seem to find a similar issue as we found yesterday. X32, (2) S16's talking over cat 5, inputs 1 and 2 for iPod, paired the channels and get a null in the output or cancellation and the sound is thin. Un-link and do one channel at at a time all is OK...can't seem to find anything on this...have not tried it on the board only just with the S16's
 
Re: Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

Nick Davis said:
I must admit that if I had known that something like the compact was coming out I may have waited and opted for that in preference to the x32
Click to expand...


And that is precisely why. Now everyone who just had to have an x32 (myself included) will end up selling it for the compact. Behringer has sold two consoles to the same guy. I'm not knocking Behringer at all for it, it makes perfect sense. I don't believe it's completely malicious though. I understand a lit bit about R&D. And it's better to design the most complex model first, then it's easier to scale down. To build up from something is much more difficult and costs a lot.
 
Phase problem

John Moore said:
Ok, have searched the forum and can't seem to find a similar issue as we found yesterday. X32, (2) S16's talking over cat 5, inputs 1 and 2 for iPod, paired the channels and get a null in the output or cancellation and the sound is thin. Un-link and do one channel at at a time all is OK...can't seem to find anything on this...have not tried it on the board only just with the S16's
Click to expand...


Hello

With that description I´d look for a phase reversal somewhere in your system.

Check channel settings. Particularly the phase-switch. You might try another pair of channels.
Check your cables.
Check the signal coming out of your iPod.

If you have both channels panned in the middle, then phase reversal does what you describe.
If you have your channels panned hard L & R then you´ll end with a "spatial-stereo" sound - very wide stereo .
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

What kind of UPS are you using? If not, you should. If so, how fast does it kick in (must be faster than 20ms)? I've never had a problem stepping on a cat-5, only problem I ever had was when some kids ran over my shielded cat-5 with a 400lbs staging cart, just a little bit of cable massage, a quick reconnect and I was good to go again...

Michael Roper said:
Dan, et al - I had a two more glitches this this morning (luckily both during rehearsal, and not during our church service)... the first time i thought i saw someone walking over the cable, but I still couldn't manage to reproduce it, no matter how hard i stood on the cable, in the exact same place. The second time - rehearsal had finished, nobody was on any mics/instruments, and nobody in the room was moving, let alone near the cable - yet, it still happened... which deepens the mystery. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to narrow this down to whether it's an X32 problem, an S16 problem (without pulling out the heavy old snake), or possibly a power problem? My snake cable runs next to, but not intertwined with, a single power cable for FoH, and a VGA cable....
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Re: Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

Chris Wadden said:
Now everyone who just had to have an x32 (myself included) will end up selling it for the compact.
Click to expand...
Not me. I might get the compact as a backup however...

I like the tactile surface of the standard model (and there's no phone holder on the smaller ones ;-). As B has said they are looking into having the whole surface for mackie control and one can hope for a custom layer in the future this means that I don't want a smaller surface in general.

As for the send encoders I actually use them for the matrix since there are no send on faders for those (unless I've overlooked something?).
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Michael Roper said:
Dan, et al - I had a two more glitches this this morning (luckily both during rehearsal, and not during our church service)... the first time i thought i saw someone walking over the cable, but I still couldn't manage to reproduce it, no matter how hard i stood on the cable, in the exact same place. The second time - rehearsal had finished, nobody was on any mics/instruments, and nobody in the room was moving, let alone near the cable - yet, it still happened... which deepens the mystery. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to narrow this down to whether it's an X32 problem, an S16 problem (without pulling out the heavy old snake), or possibly a power problem? My snake cable runs next to, but not intertwined with, a single power cable for FoH, and a VGA cable....
Click to expand...

Bummer.

And you're 100% sure that your wireless is muted in both mains and monitors? Not muting by DCA for prefade monitors (which doesn't mute prefade signals)? Sorry to ask the obvious, but you didn't answer that when I asked before.

What does the "glitch" sound like?

Are you able to try a different Cat5e cable? How long is that cable?

All IEC power cables firmly seated?

Are you looking at the console or S16's while it's glitching, and if so, is there any visible indication?

If it had glitched during the noisy part of your service, would it have been obvious?

Don't know what else to suggest or ask.

Good luck.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Dan Mortensen said:
Do you have different answers to any of these issues, along with some sort of evidence? With all due respect, you made a very strong statement with little ambiguity in your post about wrapping Cat5 and AC which scared the crap out of me, while your second paragraph above which apparently explains your reasoning is much more vague.
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I think you're reading into my comment a bit too much. I merely brought it up as a point of doubt in the hardware's ability to cope with a UTP cable (not recommended per Behringer's own documentation) wrapped around a mains cable that might have significant common mode interference. It's a question of hardware error correction capability and the desire to avoid problems, not a hard rule. Maybe I should have used more snark, like Apple, and said "Just don't step on it like that." :)~:-)~:smile:

I think some of you guys will have much more experience than I in the digital realm. I look forward to more discussion on the matter.
 
Re: Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

Here is a compiled list of the current fx and what they are modeled after. Some are still missing but it's a nice list...

Enhancer: SPL Vitalizer
Exiter: Aphex Aural Exiter
TruEQ: Klark Teknik DN360
Vintage Room: Quantec QRS
Plate Reverb: Lexicon PCM70
Vintage Reverb: EMT250 Plate Reverb
Wave Designer: SPL Transient Designer
Chorus/Chamber: Lexicon PCM70
Precision Limiter: Sony Oxford Dynamics
Hall Reverb: Lexicon 480L
Flanger/Delay: Lexicon PCM70
De-Esser: SPL Dual-band De-Esser
Guitar Amp: Tech 21
 
Re: Fist impression of the X32 Compact...

Nick Davis said:
I was wondering if anyone used the bus encoders a lot or at all? - I prefer the sends on faders - very quick
Click to expand...

I find I use those encoders, so I am not switching up (FOH duty - when split mixed). this is mainly for fills and FX.

Now for mixing MON from FOH (with no split), I use the sends on faders, fur sure. In a compact, one would guess its being used as an all in one, rather than split mixed situation (in the general sense).
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Dan Mortensen said:
Bummer.

And you're 100% sure that your wireless is muted in both mains and monitors? Not muting by DCA for prefade monitors (which doesn't mute prefade signals)? Sorry to ask the obvious, but you didn't answer that when I asked before.

What does the "glitch" sound like?

Are you able to try a different Cat5e cable? How long is that cable?

All IEC power cables firmly seated?

Are you looking at the console or S16's while it's glitching, and if so, is there any visible indication?

If it had glitched during the noisy part of your service, would it have been obvious?

Don't know what else to suggest or ask.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

100% sure that the wireless was muted on the input channel..

Sounds like a very short burst of pink noise, but with an edge of digital artefacts. Definitely sounded louder than what I had my FOH level on the desk set at, so pretty sure it wasn't input-related.

My cable is 50m long, but probably only 20m of that was unrolled off the drum. I have used another 30m Cat6 cable before I got the drum reel, without noticing the issue, but that was a month or two back. Have used this 50m one without the issue for a month or so.

Power cables firmly connected as far as I know. I might try a different power board next week. And to answer Declan's question - not currently using a UPS, but definitely considering it now, if only to rule that out.

Unfortunately wasn't looking at either the desk or S16 when it happened, so havent seen anything light up yet. Keeps catching me by surprise!

I think if it did happen during a song, it would definitely be noticeable, but not quite as startling...

The fact that it is so random is frustrating - I can't really just send off the whole desk + s16 + cable and say "something's wrong, i dont know what, and i can't reproduce it"...

Let me know if you get any answers on yours!
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Michael Roper said:
100% sure that the wireless was muted on the input channel..

Sounds like a very short burst of pink noise, but with an edge of digital artefacts. Definitely sounded louder than what I had my FOH level on the desk set at, so pretty sure it wasn't input-related.
Click to expand...

That sounds similar to my recollection. I didn't feel the noise was overpoweringly loud, though, and not sure where the master was on the console.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Michael Roper said:
Sounds like a very short burst of pink noise, but with an edge of digital artefacts. Definitely sounded louder than what I had my FOH level on the desk set at, so pretty sure it wasn't input-related.

My cable is 50m long, but probably only 20m of that was unrolled off the drum. I have used another 30m Cat6 cable before I got the drum reel, without noticing the issue, but that was a month or two back. Have used this 50m one without the issue for a month or so.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Maybe this helps pinpointing the issue: I have a 50m CAT6 on a drum reel. Last Sunday I had it unrolled for about 10m and the drum reel was standing close to a wall outlet. During a break of the band I unplugged a battery charger from that wall outlet and got a short burst of noise followed by a short silence (of background music) due re-syncing of X32 and S16. You may have had a similar issue: a sparking switch near the cable (eg cat cable close to a power supply cable of a fridge)?

I don't consider this as a real issue as long as the system keeps sync when the charger (or anything else) is unplugged from a more distant wall outlet. I think all digital connections will suffer from this...
 
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Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Michael Roper said:
Dan, et al - I had a two more glitches this this morning (luckily both during rehearsal, and not during our church service)... the first time i thought i saw someone walking over the cable, but I still couldn't manage to reproduce it, no matter how hard i stood on the cable, in the exact same place. The second time - rehearsal had finished, nobody was on any mics/instruments, and nobody in the room was moving, let alone near the cable - yet, it still happened... which deepens the mystery. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to narrow this down to whether it's an X32 problem, an S16 problem (without pulling out the heavy old snake), or possibly a power problem? My snake cable runs next to, but not intertwined with, a single power cable for FoH, and a VGA cable....
Click to expand...

My x32 and 2 s16's were sent off to the service dept. a month ago.
I'm still waiting as I believe it hasn't faulted for them yet
I realise it is impossible to find the fault, or to even locate it to either the desk or s16's with such an intermittant problem. Unfortunately both shows that failed were with B level national acts (I was operating so could use whatever onsole I liked) and I can't afford to have that happen, it's certainly bad for business.
It would appear that some of us have systems that are running right on the edge of tolerances for holding sync.
It's looking like I will have to get a refund on the system and go with something else as I have work booked in and need a reliable system.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Peter van Gils said:
Hmm. Maybe this helps pinpointing the issue: I have a 50m CAT6 on a drum reel. Last Sunday I had it unrolled for about 10m and the drum reel was standing close to a wall outlet. During a break of the band I unplugged a battery charger from that wall outlet and got a short burst of noise followed by a short silence (of background music) due re-syncing of X32 and S16. You may have had a similar issue: a sparking switch near the cable (eg cat cable close to a power supply cable of a fridge)?

I don't consider this as a real issue as long as the system keeps sync when the charger (or anything else) is unplugged from a more distant wall outlet. I think all digital connections will suffer from this...
Click to expand...

I can't agree. I don't believe all digital systems have this problem.
I have experience of many manufacturers systems and have not had this problem before.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Unfortunately both shows that failed were with B level national acts (I was operating so could use whatever onsole I liked) and I can't afford to have that happen, it's certainly bad for business. .
Click to expand...

THIS scares the crap out of me, I haven't used the s16's live yet, and having full on pink noise come out of my rig would not only startle the audience, but would be a complete fail in my books, it's not happening . It's making me think long and hard about at least running copper between the desks. On a side note I had a look at my defective dca8 fader. You can see the belt slack when you slide the fader, so it's slipped the belt. The motor still " whines" when you change scenes so I think that's a good sign. Where does the " I told you so line start".... I'll take the first shift.....
 
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