X32 Discussion

Re: Monitor out whine

Misja Hoen said:
Hi Dragos,

About the subject of bypassing the preamps in 20+ channel operation. Why would you want that? Unless you have 20+ high quality preamps. Wich on an analog desk is just inserted to bypass the pre's. Not an option on the digital desks i have met.

You will need the preamps to power all kinds of stuff like microphones even in a recording session.

Misja
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There is a digital mixer, Midas Venice F32. It has line in and XLR for every channel. Line in has the function to bypass preamp. I don't have better quality preamps but it made sense for me just to record dry signal an after recording, when mixing and returning the signal from daw to mixer, to ad the preamp and eq function of x32 in order to have better control of sonic quality for every track.

My way of thinking was, recording with a buit in preamp, and after that, returning the signal from daw to mixer its like adding two preamp (gain) stages, one from the initial recording (printed on wave form) and other when I will return the signal from daw to mixer channel, and maybe I don't want that. Am I missing something here?
 
Re: Monitor out whine

Dragos Strat said:
My way of thinking was, recording with a buit in preamp, and after that, returning the signal from daw to mixer its like adding two preamp (gain) stages, one from the initial recording (printed on wave form) and other when I will return the signal from daw to mixer channel, and maybe I don't want that. Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...

On the X32 the source of the channels and the source of the XUF card can be selected indipendly via the routing page. This means if you select for instance 'Local 1-8' as the souce for the card out 1-8 there is only the input stage between you microphone and the card out. the input stage contains the gain for the A/D convertor and the switchable phantompower. nothing more. The whole processing of the channelstrip is not part of the signal flow between the input on the xlr socket and the output to the card. The channelstrip assignment is another story.
so, I think this behaviour is exactly what you want.
 
Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

Declan Slater said:
Great to see you trying a nice UPS, I'd recommend if using a digital snake, to run that on the UPS and use a shielded cat-5 for it with metalized ends that have the metal shield soldered to the shield drain wire on both ends. I often use a unshielded cat-6 on shows without issues. Keep us in the loop!
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While trying to find a suitable UPS, my associate is leaning towards a power conditioner instead. He believes that a UPS will only kick into battery if power is completely lost, and some UPS's don't don't handle over voltages (surges), though the Liebert Powersure Psi PS1000RT3-120, I'm looking at seems to include AVR. Would something like a Furman P-1800 PF R power conditioner also do the job? All I've heard talked about is UPS's, and not power conditioners, but I guess what I'm asking is, is the problem some of us are having regarding voltage, just a slight voltage drop, or is it a full drop off where the battery in a UPS is actually needed. I guess that's a hard question to answer though.

And thanks for the suggestion for digital snake and shielded cat-5, I think we'll start with unshielded as we have bulk wire kicking around, so doing our run will be super easy, rather than getting a custom shielded cable if we don't require it. But if something come up, I'll look to that first.
 
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Re: Monitor out whine

Klaus Mock said:
On the X32 the source of the channels and the source of the XUF card can be selected indipendly via the routing page. This means if you select for instance 'Local 1-8' as the souce for the card out 1-8 there is only the input stage between you microphone and the card out. the input stage contains the gain for the A/D convertor and the switchable phantompower. nothing more. The whole processing of the channelstrip is not part of the signal flow between the input on the xlr socket and the output to the card. The channelstrip assignment is another story.
so, I think this behaviour is exactly what you want.
Click to expand...

Yes! exactly what I wondered. Thanks for this simple simple answer. I's crystal clear now. Another big mystery solved for me. :D
 
Re: UPS

Per Søvik said:
It might, but why would you want to spend that kind of money on something that might work when a small ups at a tenth of the price is proven to work?
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Well, I don't know what "proven" is, unless there are other cases where people have had problems with pops that the UPS solved. I guess because I don't understand what the actual problem is, I don't know if it's the "ups" that is the thing that solves the problem, or if it's just getting "cleaner" power. I'm leaning towards a decent UPS, but given I've never had such problems with my previous digital consoles, I'm really curious to see what makes the x32 so susceptible to such power issues.
 
Re: X32 Noisy Cooling Fan

Joseph Schuurman said:
While trying to find a suitable UPS, my associate is leaning towards a power conditioner instead. He believes that a UPS will only kick into battery if power is completely lost, and some UPS's don't don't handle over voltages (surges), though the Liebert Powersure Psi PS1000RT3-120, I'm looking at seems to include AVR. Would something like a Furman P-1800 PF R power conditioner also do the job? All I've heard talked about is UPS's, and not power conditioners, but I guess what I'm asking is, is the problem some of us are having regarding voltage, just a slight voltage drop, or is it a full drop off where the battery in a UPS is actually needed. I guess that's a hard question to answer though.

And thanks for the suggestion for digital snake and shielded cat-5, I think we'll start with unshielded as we have bulk wire kicking around, so doing our run will be super easy, rather than getting a custom shielded cable if we don't require it. But if something come up, I'll look to that first.
Click to expand...


Power conditioners are a waste of space and money in this application. What you're looking for is voltage stability......and un-interruptable at that......for "when the show must go on".......which is, like, always.
 
Re: UPS

Joseph Schuurman said:
Well, I don't know what "proven" is, unless there are other cases where people have had problems with pops that the UPS solved. I guess because I don't understand what the actual problem is, I don't know if it's the "ups" that is the thing that solves the problem, or if it's just getting "cleaner" power. I'm leaning towards a decent UPS, but given I've never had such problems with my previous digital consoles, I'm really curious to see what makes the x32 so susceptible to such power issues.
Click to expand...

"Proven" might be a strong word, but the recommendation from Behringer is a UPS, and I have "proven" that the Eaton 3s works, both in that it solved a hang-up problem in a specific venue and in that I can't provoke a fault when the ups is connected. The Eaton 3s fits inside my flightcase, that is my main reason for using it.
My guess is that the caps in the power-supply are rather small compared to what you might find on older equipment (there are good reasons for not using big caps from both a design and cost point of view), and thus no reserve to cover a missed cycle or even half-cycle.
 
Re: FX Specifics?

Robert Lofgren said:
Search this thread about a post I made some weeks ago where I tried to list most of the fx and what they were modeled after.

There are some fx missing but I also never got any feedback about my list so there were no updates to it....
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I tried to look up the original effects and whatever documentation I could find for them, but more or less gave up on the whole thing since some of the effects only seemed to be "modelled" to give the visual appearance and didn't follow the actual effect in detail function etc. Probably most of them are reasonably close, and I was unlucky/misguided in my approach, but anyway.........

Maybe we could try and collect a complete description of each effect if there are enough of us that are willing to rescerarch one effect each????????? Could devote a section on x32user.net to it if there is interest.
 
Re: UPS

Hey you are saying that the Eaton works! Just curious if you have unplugged the Eaton and the X32 stayed running. I am looking for a UPS at the moment. Would you mind sharing what case you have? I have the Gator and I am wondering if it would fit in the doghouse? I am hoping you have the same case!

I take it you have the 750va Model?





Per Søvik said:
"Proven" might be a strong word, but the recommendation from Behringer is a UPS, and I have "proven" that the Eaton 3s works, both in that it solved a hang-up problem in a specific venue and in that I can't provoke a fault when the ups is connected. The Eaton 3s fits inside my flightcase, that is my main reason for using it.
My guess is that the caps in the power-supply are rather small compared to what you might find on older equipment (there are good reasons for not using big caps from both a design and cost point of view), and thus no reserve to cover a missed cycle or even half-cycle.
Click to expand...
 
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Re: FX Specifics?

Any word on backorders on these? My local dealer doesn't stock them, and said that they are on backorder right now. Yeah, I could order from one of the big players that still show stock, but I'd rather keep my business local. It's been about a month now since I put in the order and I'm getting impatient.
 
X32 DAW/OSC Questions

Dear JV,

Long time listener, first time caller, as they say...

I'm about to pull the trigger on buying an X32 for my theatre group in preparation for a production of Les Mis in July. It's intended as an upgrade to an elderly Yamaha 01V but for this show we're planning to use both mixers to (a) get enough inputs, and (b) because of limited options of cabling to and from the stage.

The plan is to use the 01V as the band mixer, sending 2-4 stems over the house snake to the X32 in the booth, which will take all 26 (!) planned wireless mics directly as well as the Qlab computer. This isn't really using all the tricks of the X32 (I was predicting how much the MD's eyes would light up when I offered him the ability to control his own monitor mix from his iPhone using XiQ, but that won't really be possible with this set-up... oh well, next time, next show)

We'd also like to take the leap into automating the show, and although the X32 has automation, the 100-scene limit worries me, so I have been experimenting with a home-brewed OSC mapping system (written in Python using the commonly available OSC and MIDI modules) to control vocal faders (at first, perhaps more later) from Qlab OSC cues. My script maps character names to faders, and retains state of all the faders so that the OSC commands in the Qlab cues just need to say things like:

/faders Javert Eponine
/faders Valjean
/faders

These get translated into "/ch/01/mix/fader X" commands to the X32, and alternatively to MIDI CC commands for the 01V.

The named characters' faders go up, all the others go down. Once up, the fader can presumably be ridden for levels. This is still very much a prototype behaviour and I'm prepared to have to rework it as we think about it more, but for now it works, even though it's still completely theoretical on the X32 front (although I've successfully tested it on the 01V).

Anyway, I'm rambling and haven't even got to my main question...

The 01V will be in the band, hooked up to a Mac Mini with a MIDI interface, on a dedicated WiFi network, with the X32 and Qlab MacBook Pro wired to the router.

I'm sure there are other options for remote-controlling the basic functions of the 01V (faders at the very least), including a $17 iPhone app, but it would be even cooler if I could somehow hook into the DAW Control mode of the X32. I've been delving through the (minimal) docs, but it's not clear to me how to do this.

My understanding is that DAW mode only maps the 8 group/DCA/matrix faders, and that the channel faders remain active (even though the "REMOTE" button is over by the channel faders on the full-size X32).

Is it possible to switch in and out of DAW Control mode while the main mix continues underneath, so that the result is literally a temporary remapping of those faders to be a remote-control?

Obviously I would need other custom software to remap the MIDI Mackie Control or HUI protocol into OSC to send over the WiFi to the Mac Mini to map back to MIDI to pass to the 01V, but I'm confident about that part. I just want to know whether the actual workflow will be possible.

Final related tech question... allegedly the X32 XUF card can also act as a MIDI interface to a computer. Is that true? Can I be recording 32 channels of audio over USB or FireWire while also running some other custom program which sees the X32 over MIDI and could receive and remap the DAW commands? I ask because I'd like to avoid having to buy another physical USB MIDI interface if possible (I only have one and I'd need it for Mac Mini to 01V).

OK, that was a long, badly-planned, and arguably incoherent thread, but hopefully there's somebody out there with an opinion on each part...

Thanks for listening,

Simon Eves
Marin Summer Theater
Novato, CA
 
Re: X32 DAW/OSC Questions

Oh, and any suggestions for laying out 26 wireless mics on a mixer with only 16 physical channel faders...? I'm hoping the mic-to-character distribution is such that the least important 10 can be on the second layer and controlled collectively with one or more DCAs. Can any given channel only be under the control of one DCA at a time? Maybe I can extend my Qlab/OSC system to switch the DCA routing on the fly too. God, I hope I'm not making this too complicated... :\
 
Re: UPS

Billy Peiffer said:
Hey you are saying that the Eaton works! Just curious if you have unplugged the Eaton and the X32 stayed running. I am looking for a UPS at the moment. Would you mind sharing what case you have? I have the Gator and I am wondering if it would fit in the doghouse? I am hoping you have the same case!

I take it you have the 750va Model?
Click to expand...

I use the smaller model, 550VA. It solved the problem in a venue where some old AC caused the X32 to hang, I have provoked it in all sorts of manners, switching power on and off, unplugging, connecting heavy gear to the same circuit as the ups. It does the job.
I have the small Thon case, the ups fits for transport, I take it out if I need to get accsess to all channels at the back.
3S_550_DIN-sml.jpg
 
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