X32 Discussion

Re: Firmware Update

I just received my X32 from being serviced and firmware 1.14 was installed with the features that Joe mentioned. Nice!

Plus ... the new X32 Mix for the iPad is outstanding.

It keeps getting better 'n better. :D~:-D~:grin:


P.S. The service turnaround was most prompt.
 
S16 audio drop outs

Just curious, has anyone figured out the actual cause of the audio drop outs from the S16s? I was mixing on an X32 this weekend and we had that issue several times throughout the night. At first I thought it was related to the air conditioning in the building, but the drop outs weren't in sync with when it kicked on/off.
 
Re: Dual X32 weekend

Mateusz Ciesiółka;62375 said:
It looks great. I really love to see reviews of X32 'in action'. Especially when includes photos. Show us Your gear - don't be ashamed of it ;)

OK, Mateusz, you've forced me to do it.

Here are a few shows in the last week:

IMG_1694.jpg

This is Randy Newman last Wednesday at my big concert series, for which I've done all 30 seasons. 1 vocal, 2 piano mics, lots of spill back onto the stage from the arrays. I was able to get it loud enough and a decent tonality; he and his manager were happy, and the audience sure enjoyed it. He has written an incredible number of wonderful songs. It looks like this will be the only headliner I get to mix this summer; everyone else brings their own crew. :(~:-(~:sad:

IMG_1700.jpg

This was the next night; much smaller series, now in its 11th year. Paula Fuga and Mike Love from Hawaii, sort of a reggae group. Paula has a lovely voice and plays ukelele, and Mike plays guitar and sings while doing live overdubs with himself, doing many different instrumental parts and many different vocal parts. He did this many-track vocal where he sung syllables to his own mental beat, and eventually the overdubbed syllables formed words and harmonies. I've never seen anything exactly like it, and it was most impressive. The rest of what they did was really great, too.

IMG_1724.jpg

This was tonight, back at my big series, where I mixed the Lindsay Fuller band, the opener for the Indigo Girls. They were really cool, too, and did all originals (just realized that is true of all these artists in this post). My crew and I got them set up and fully soundchecked in 30 minutes, which I was pretty proud of. It turned out that I knew the keyboard player from about 15 or 20 years ago. He was playing both a B3/Leslie and an electric keyboard of some sort, and was another reason their music sounded so good, although all the players were really good and tight as a group.

IMG_1721.jpg

Here is our monitor world, with another X32. We must have been doing 5 mixes, as they are a 5 piece.

IMG_1722.jpg

Here's a wider view of FOH, with the IG's Digico SD8 on the right. To fit the two consoles and the lighting guy within our FOH area (3 sheets of plywood on the ground), I put my drive rack in front of the console and looked over the top of it to mix. The main engineer's drive rack was to his left. I'll flatter myself and say that both mixes sounded pretty good, despite the price difference between the consoles. :lol:

I didn't get the impression that he was going to think about jumping on the X32 bandwagon....

IG had another SD8 for their monitor console.

We have a repeat show tomorrow in the same location, so that will be nice.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Just curious, has anyone figured out the actual cause of the audio drop outs from the S16s? I was mixing on an X32 this weekend and we had that issue several times throughout the night. At first I thought it was related to the air conditioning in the building, but the drop outs weren't in sync with when it kicked on/off.

Unfortunately this still remains an issue with the x32/s16's!

Behringers response has been to use shielded cat5 wired to the "B" standard. use a ups and get all power from a common point.
None of this has solved the problem.
Other systems in the exact same conditions work flawlessly. FWIW, I suspect the sync lock is running very close to the edge of tolerances and can be disrupted very easily.

Darren
 
Re: Firmware Update

Dear Guys,

Firmware 1.15 is now live on the X32 product page:
Behringer: DIGITAL MIXER X32
1.15
improvements:
- support for latest X32-Edit
- 'select follows solo' function only selects a channel when solo is activated, not when deactivated
- icon and name now copied when activating a channel link
new features:
- additional aux routing sources (2, 4, or 6 channels)
- direct routing of aux inputs to aes ports and/or card
- push & hold the encoder during power-on to initialize the X32CORE
- X32CORE enters 'safe to power off' mode (i.e. all settings saved) when in setup menu (push & hold the USB button)

Can I make another plead for the ability to set the user keys to effect rack (page 1, or 2). Using this console for monitors would be more enjoyable, if you could set user keys to 1,2,3,4 - to bring up the appropriate 31 band eq's without having to remember to page down for the alternate "b" mix. Also the ability to label the eq's would be beneficial as well.... (bottom revised version)
 

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Re: Firmware Update

Can I make another plead for the ability to set the user keys to effect rack (page 1, or 2). Using this console for monitors would be more enjoyable, if you could set user keys to 1,2,3,4 - to bring up the appropriate 31 band eq's without having to remember to page down for the alternate "b" mix. Also the ability to label the eq's would be beneficial as well.... (bottom revised version)

+1, especially the part about labeling EQs.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Just curious, has anyone figured out the actual cause of the audio drop outs from the S16s? I was mixing on an X32 this weekend and we had that issue several times throughout the night. At first I thought it was related to the air conditioning in the building, but the drop outs weren't in sync with when it kicked on/off.

What is the length of your cable and what type is it?
I've been running flawlessly with a 50 m cable drum from Thomann even when supplying power to the S16 straight off an unconditioned source far removed from the X32 power source.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

What is the length of your cable and what type is it?
I've been running flawlessly with a 50 m cable drum from Thomann even when supplying power to the S16 straight off an unconditioned source far removed from the X32 power source.

We were using a 25 foot unshielded (I think) Cat5e cable to connect the snakes to each other, and a 100 meter cable (with a shroud, don't know about the shielding) connecting the board to the snake.

We've used the same cabling with other digital consoles and did not encounter such an issue.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

We were using a 25 foot unshielded (I think) Cat5e cable to connect the snakes to each other, and a 100 meter cable (with a shroud, don't know about the shielding) connecting the board to the snake.

We've used the same cabling with other digital consoles and did not encounter such an issue.


Brian, not that I think that this is your issue, but is there a reason you are tempting the 300ft ethernet max "limit" - is your FOH position that far away ( over hill and under dale) ?
you might want to get under that 300 ft threashold if possible. Also what others have said, get the consoles on a ups, and sharing the same power off said ups.

I have a 3 x 150ft cat 5, and a 2 x 260ft cat 5... that I've been using and no issues yet (unless you step on it.... KA POW!!)
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Brian, not that I think that this is your issue, but is there a reason you are tempting the 300ft ethernet max "limit" - is your FOH position that far away ( over hill and under dale) ?
you might want to get under that 300 ft threashold if possible. Also what others have said, get the consoles on a ups, and sharing the same power off said ups.

I have a 3 x 150ft cat 5, and a 2 x 260ft cat 5... that I've been using and no issues yet (unless you step on it.... KA POW!!)

I can't say for certain that the cable is 300 feet, and I know it's had the last 2 feet or so cut off, we're using a Roland V-mixer currently, and we were simply using the length of cable that it came with. When we had the Behringer in the room we used the same cable that the Roland had been connected to. A shorter cable than what we're running now wouldn't reach. This an install situation.

The console was operating on UPS, but the snakes were not. We would have to have a separate UPS for each snake due to how far apart they are, and don't have the money to buy two more UPSs at the moment.

The Behringer is no longer with us as we were renting it for the week. We plan to purchase it but I want to make sure this issue with the drop outs can be fixed before we pull the trigger.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Dear Brian,

The connection/cable from console to stagebox is crucial.
In your post you mention that the cable was cut back and re-terminated.
AES50 uses all the pairs in the CAT5 cable, is it possible that pairs in your cable are damaged but the Roland system is not using those pairs?

Buying the correct cable and cable care is crutial for consistant results.
- Use CAT5e Shielded cable
- Do not exceed 100m (approx. 300')
- HIGHLY recommend Ethercon cable ends
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

If there is a suspicion that the cable length is close to maximum for stable sync, running at 44.1KHz will effectively give you a 10% margin compared to 48KHz.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Dear Brian,

The connection/cable from console to stagebox is crucial.
In your post you mention that the cable was cut back and re-terminated.
AES50 uses all the pairs in the CAT5 cable, is it possible that pairs in your cable are damaged but the Roland system is not using those pairs?

Buying the correct cable and cable care is crutial for consistant results.
- Use CAT5e Shielded cable
- Do not exceed 100m (approx. 300')
- HIGHLY recommend Ethercon cable ends

Joe,

I cannot use my system for anything important as it simply is not reliable enough!

I have tried various cables(from cheap to high end), various powering options etc.
In every situation where the system has played up, swapping it out with different system has fixed the problem completely.

I would like to be able to use the x32/s16 for more than "bar band" type gigs, but unfortunately it lets me down too often to risk it on any more important jobs.

I would love a solution to this?

Darren
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

I don't think this is an "official problem". Many official and un-official folks have commented on this, and as far as I have read, only a few have reported having this as a problem. As far as I know, most have not followed ALL the recomendations summed up here:

1. Less than 300' total length between mixer and furthest s16 (actually less than 330' but anytime your pushing over 250, your Increasing your chance of trouble. KT just released a new ethernet/optical extender this year that supports aes50 @ 48k and 96k both now, that might be the thing best for long mission critical uses.

2. Use shielded STP cat-5 wired to the "b" spec, with metalized ends having the drain wire soldered to the metalized end on both ends. This Is really needed when running over 250' for sure! I use cat-6 because it holds up better with the plastic insulator running the length, it's stiffer, but more resistant to crush damage. I've had no problems with 100+ shows. The Roland cat-5 cable was mentioned, I'm a Roland dealer, that's a 328' cat-5 STP with soldered metalized ends. My question is: was the new end that was shortened by 2' wired to the "b" spec and also with a metalized end having drain wire properly soldered to it?

3. Use a UPS for the mixer and all s-16's that has either zero "switch over time" (constant voltage) or at MINIMUM use a UPS that will kick In in less than 20 milliseconds. If your ups does not state it's transfer switching time, then it is not good enough for this application. It's been tested by Behringer officially and any sag under 80v for more than 20ms will cause "wierdness". If your s-16's are too far away, get another "good" UPS with the same specs for those too. I don't think I ever heard anyone official say the s16's have to be on the same circuit or electrical phase, that should not matter as long as it has a good UPS. The digital converters in the S16's elliminate any buzz from differences in neutral/ground potential (buzz), between them and the mixer (as long as you stay all digital). The circuit/phase/panel would matter if different between the s16 and other s16's and/or amps/powered speakers for sure (hear: nasty buzz)!

Thanks!



Unfortunately this still remains an issue with the x32/s16's!

Behringers response has been to use shielded cat5 wired to the "B" standard. use a ups and get all power from a common point.
None of this has solved the problem.
Other systems in the exact same conditions work flawlessly. FWIW, I suspect the sync lock is running very close to the edge of tolerances and can be disrupted very easily.

Darren
 
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Re: S16 audio drop outs

Hi Joe-

For me, it's not so much that a few folks are having problems as the lack of a definitive failure mode. I was really hoping Dan Mortenson's AES group experiments would nail down at least one or two types of failures that did not involve sadistic cable handling, but a surprising number of cables continued to function.

I'd buy 4 X32 and probably 6 SB16 IF the causes and remedies for these problems were known. Until then, I'll wait and see what Yamaha comes out with next.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc


Dear Brian,

The connection/cable from console to stagebox is crucial.
In your post you mention that the cable was cut back and re-terminated.
AES50 uses all the pairs in the CAT5 cable, is it possible that pairs in your cable are damaged but the Roland system is not using those pairs?

Buying the correct cable and cable care is crutial for consistant results.
- Use CAT5e Shielded cable
- Do not exceed 100m (approx. 300')
- HIGHLY recommend Ethercon cable ends