X32 Discussion

Re: S16 audio drop outs

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
Sometimes I do this in a place, that already has plenty of outlets all around the stage and musicians are wondering, why I do not allow them to use those. Simple reason is, that those outlets might get their feed from who knows where and therefore create a massive ground loop - or even worse, burn your equipment or cause personal injury or death !!!
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another reason is that you dont know what happens in the wall. Maybe the wire in the wall is (for architectual reasons) three times longer as the newly used extension cord. Back in those years a thumb rule for was to avoid too much differenece of cable length between the audio and the power lines to reduce the difference of grounding potentials.
maybe this is not so important nowadays with digital snake systems but following the one point cabling rule do not make it worse for sure.
 
Brian Henson said:
I can't say for certain that the cable is 300 feet, and I know it's had the last 2 feet or so cut off, we're using a Roland V-mixer currently, and we were simply using the length of cable that it came with. When we had the Behringer in the room we used the same cable that the Roland had been connected to. A shorter cable than what we're running now wouldn't reach. This an install situation.

The console was operating on UPS, but the snakes were not. We would have to have a separate UPS for each snake due to how far apart they are, and don't have the money to buy two more UPSs at the moment.

The Behringer is no longer with us as we were renting it for the week. We plan to purchase it but I want to make sure this issue with the drop outs can be fixed before we pull the trigger.
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The Roland system requires a crossover cable; I'm surprised it works at all.

Sent from my XT907 2
 
Re: X-USB card

Marcus Prier said:
Hi Uli,
one of the new features in firmware 1.14 ist the support of a X-USB card. Is this the direct-to-USB-harddrive card? Any news about the development prozess or a release date?
Thanks
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This brings up a point I wanted to mention here. From most spec pages and photos, the Compact features the same XUF USB/FiWi card. However, in browsing the web looking for info about the Compact, one site (don't remember who) had a photo of the Compact with an "X-USB" card. No FiWi. I did not get the impression it was the direct to HD interface that's been talked about, but simply removal of FiWi to cut cost.

Anyone have insight as to what it was?
 
Re: X-USB card

Chris Wadden said:
This brings up a point I wanted to mention here. From most spec pages and photos, the Compact features the same XUF USB/FiWi card. However, in browsing the web looking for info about the Compact, one site (don't remember who) had a photo of the Compact with an "X-USB" card. No FiWi. I did not get the impression it was the direct to HD interface that's been talked about, but simply removal of FiWi to cut cost.

Anyone have insight as to what it was?
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Uli writes about it here
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Dan Mortensen said:
Where do you get the idea that for portable use you can't use long cables of the appropriate type (SOOW or similar) with Edisons or whatever on each end to plug another cord into them?

Or, for fixed installations, that you can't run conduit or whatever from whatever source you choose to whatever location you choose?
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I said "extension" cords, not long cords. You cannot use extension cords as part of a fixed installation. They can only be temporary. (see "Uniform Fire Code: 8506" http://www.grand.k12.ut.us/district/fire.htm#anchor157315)

Silas Pradetto said:
The Roland system requires a crossover cable; I'm surprised it works at all.

Sent from my XT907 2
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The documentation says you can use either.

Re: Power distro, we don't have any form of power distribution in our audio system. Everything is just plugged into the main power. As I said with our current console we have had 0 issues with this.

I am not a professional (nor do I claim to be) and this system was not professionally installed, it does, however, work as expected.
 
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Re: S16 audio drop outs

Nick Davis said:
Thanks - very cheap and spec looks OK - the only issue I see with the eaton is having to provide iec tails.
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You normally get these in two versions, the iec and the country specific domestic plug, ie. schuko on mainland Europe, the British 13amp plug in Britain, and so on.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Nick Davis said:
you could just stick with it then!
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We would, but Roland doesn't offer an affordable personal monitoring solution (M-48s are $1000 a piece). Which is why we were looking into the X32. I liked everything about the board except for the issue with the drop outs, and now it sounds like the X32 will wind up being much more expensive than we first thought if we have to incorporate a power distribution system, new cat5 runs, UPSs, etc just to make it work properly.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Brian Henson said:
We would, but Roland doesn't offer an affordable personal monitoring solution (M-48s are $1000 a piece). Which is why we were looking into the X32. I liked everything about the board except for the issue with the drop outs, and now it sounds like the X32 will wind up being much more expensive than we first thought if we have to incorporate a power distribution system, new cat5 runs, UPSs, etc just to make it work properly.
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Looking at some of the discussion above I think it could equally be the other way round -i.e. the X32 works fine - it is possibly your installation that just happens to work with you current set-up ! As you say "this system was not professionally installed".
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Brian Henson said:
We would, but Roland doesn't offer an affordable personal monitoring solution (M-48s are $1000 a piece). Which is why we were looking into the X32. I liked everything about the board except for the issue with the drop outs, and now it sounds like the X32 will wind up being much more expensive than we first thought if we have to incorporate a power distribution system, new cat5 runs, UPSs, etc just to make it work properly.
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Dear Brian,

Sorry to jump in late but I'd like to see if I can help clarify some of what is going on here. From what I understand you tried an X32 with S16 Stage Boxes using an existing Roland CAT5 cable and experienced some difficulties.

For starters, the Roland cable is the wrong cable to use and incompatible with the X32. As you can see from this link http://www.roland.com/products/en/REAC_CABLE_100m/index.html the Roland cable is a “Crossover Ethernet cable” and not the “straight-through” cables used by most modern networking devices and digital consoles.

The crossover refers to the fact that wire pairs switch positions on the connector terminations, allowing like devices to be connected together. While I can’t speak to Roland’s decision to build their system around this cable topology, I can tell you that most modern gear incorporates what’s called Auto-MDIX which negates the need for such cables.

Let’s also be clear about the various comments for proper power distribution and power line filtering. People posting here are expressing their advice based on best practices learned from decades of experience. It is always best practice to run technical power from one source, with one ground point. It is always best practice to filter the power fed to digital equipment and it is also extremely wise to use a UPS on any device that has a boot sequence to its startup.

I would prefer that you buy an X32, S16 stage boxes and P16 personal monitoring mixers and enjoy not only the performance but also the value that they deliver. But I would still recommend proper power, filtering and backup if you choose a different solution.

Best regards,

Costa Lakoumentas
SVP, Marketing
MUSIC Group
www.music-group.com
 
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Re: S16 audio drop outs

Don't know if we'll be able to afford a real power distro but I'll definitely look into the cross-over vs straight-through. That was something I hadn't considered before and would make sense if that was the issue.

Just received a quote for a pair of 250' CAT5e stranded shielded wire with ethercon connectors, and it appears they are wired to the 'B' standard.

That is what I want, correct? Or do I need solid wire as opposed to stranded?
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Brian Henson said:
Don't know if we'll be able to afford a real power distro but I'll definitely look into the cross-over vs straight-through. That was something I hadn't considered before and would make sense if that was the issue.

Just received a quote for a pair of 250' CAT5e stranded shielded wire with ethercon connectors, and it appears they are wired to the 'B' standard.

That is what I want, correct? Or do I need solid wire as opposed to stranded?
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You want solid. Stranded does not maintain spec in most cases beyond about 200 feet, which I know from personal experience. I strongly advise the CBI Ultimate cat5, which is shielded, solid, and cheap. Less than a dollar a foot, terminated with Ethercon.

There are two termination specs - 568A and 568B - B is more common, but either can be used as long as both ends use the same. A crossover cable is a 568A to 568B cable.
 
Re: S16 audio drop outs

Brian Henson said:
Don't know if we'll be able to afford a real power distro but I'll definitely look into the cross-over vs straight-through. That was something I hadn't considered before and would make sense if that was the issue.

Just received a quote for a pair of 250' CAT5e stranded shielded wire with ethercon connectors, and it appears they are wired to the 'B' standard.

That is what I want, correct? Or do I need solid wire as opposed to stranded?
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Dear Brian,

To clarify further, you may not need to do anything to your power distribution system at all. You may have a properly designed and installed power system with a common ground and absolutely no issues. While "best practice" would be to run your console from the same power as your stage gear and amp racks, it is by no means mandatory.

The issue you experienced is most likely because of the incorrect cable. Get yourself the best cable you can and forget about it. Our head of product specialists, Joe Sanborn recommends this one from Pro Co. As the description points out, stranded wire is generally more durable for portable application where the cable is handled frequently. However solid conductors generally offer more reliable transmission over longer runs. In either case, shielded cable is best for interference-free and reliable operation.

Best regards,

Costa Lakoumentas
SVP, Marketing
MUSIC Group
www.music-group.com
 
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