X32 Discussion

[Uwe Riemer]

re: X32 Discussion

I've noticed a possible bug with my X32. My understanding is that the console remembers all the settings and fader positions etc. upon shutoff. Then when powering on, the console returns to the same setttings it had when turned off. My routine before shutdown is to use a mute group button to mute the entire console. What I find happening sometimes is that upon power up, the console seems to randomly 'forget' some of the mutes. Most of the mutes are still on, but some banks and/or individual channels are unmuted. This does not happen all the time, just occasionally.

I also have a question for those using the XControl remote for PC, so Christian or anyone using a PC please jump in. I have a PC tablet (ThinkPad tablet X61) with XControl loaded. The software works great, and controls the console flawlessly. The bug issue is that for my PC, I find that I need to re-load the X32 console IP address on the PC XControl network connect screen everytime I start up the software to use. The XControl software on the tablet 'remembers' an incorrect default console IP address, instead of the actual console IP address that I have entered. So everytime I use the remote PC, I have to manually enter the correct console IP address. Once I do that, everything is fine, and it works great. The problem is that upon shutdown, the next time I use the remote PC, it recalls the same wrong IP address, so I have to re-enter the correct one.

So, am I doing something incorrect in both situations, or are these actual bugs? Both problems are minor issues, and I'm extremely happy with the board and remote editor, but it would be nice to get these issues addressed. Thanks for any info or suggestions!

Rob,

the console does not update the temporary memory immediatly but only every two minutes or so, Christian explained this already somewhere or are you saying that it happens even when you use the "shut down" in the setup menue ?

And the IP address problem is the same on the Ipad, I am pretty sure, it will be fixed, remember XControl and XiControl are in an early state

Uwe

 

[Per Søvik]

re: X32 Discussion

I believe you are correct...mea culpa...

JR

Sorry, I should have made the distinction clearer. I just thought it would be funny if you joined the "enemy" rescearch team. You are probably the one here that is really qualified for a position in Uli's development team if I'm not barking up the wrong leg. You are the guy with several designs back in the days and even a strong involvement in that legendary and wonderful d8b that I still wish I had bought when I had the chance?

 

[Per Søvik]

re: X32 Discussion

I also have a question for those using the XControl remote for PC, so Christian or anyone using a PC please jump in. I have a PC tablet (ThinkPad tablet X61) with XControl loaded. The software works great, and controls the console flawlessly. The bug issue is that for my PC, I find that I need to re-load the X32 console IP address on the PC XControl network connect screen everytime I start up the software to use. The XControl software on the tablet 'remembers' an incorrect default console IP address, instead of the actual console IP address that I have entered. So everytime I use the remote PC, I have to manually enter the correct console IP address. Once I do that, everything is fine, and it works great. The problem is that upon shutdown, the next time I use the remote PC, it recalls the same wrong IP address, so I have to re-enter the correct one.

Why not just go with the default address, it saves you setting up the router and everything since all equipment defaults to this scheme.

 

[Uwe Riemer]

re: X32 Discussion

Okay guys,

last post for one week, time is really becoming a problem

Our case is ready, my partner did a good job as always.
I spent as much time as I could spare with measuring:
concerning multiple low/high cuts in one channel/bus EQ

it works and behaves like already described ( multiple shelves are possible too, I always wanted this for channel EQ )

concerning PEQ/VEQ

VEQ behaves exactly like the bell filter in virtual EQ ( Systune) with the parameters "peak sym", "Sallen Key" ( whatever that means ), "2nd order" ( Biquad ? )
and Q value matches the console ( I measured +-3 / +-6 / +-9/ +-12dB )

Compared to VEQ, PEQ narrows bandwidth with increasing boost / cut.

Now why should the Behringer guys call VEQ variable EQ, if it is actually the other way round ?
To determine the constant Q filter, I need to calculate the bandwidth/Q from the measurement results, this is work, not fun so it has to wait.

Maybe JR can chime in, hes the man.

Have fun
Uwe

 

[Rob Dellwood]

re: X32 Discussion

Why not just go with the default address, it saves you setting up the router and everything since all equipment defaults to this scheme.

I have tried to do that, enter the XControl PC default IP into the X32, but for some reason the tablet XControl will not recognize the console when I do this. It may have something to do with the router address, but not sure. It is a minor issue, and the XControl is great. I prefer XControl, since it gives me the all the faders on one screen, and I can be very precise with changes when using the stylus pen. I like that you cannot change anything by holding or handling the screen with your hands or fingers. Just the pen. Once they get the rest of the functions working, it will be amazing.

 

[Rob Dellwood]

re: X32 Discussion

Rob,

the console does not update the temporary memory immediatly but only every two minutes or so, Christian explained this already somewhere or are you saying that it happens even when you use the "shut down" in the setup menue ?

And the IP address problem is the same on the Ipad, I am pretty sure, it will be fixed, remember XControl and XiControl are in an early state

Uwe

Thanks, I forgot about the 2 minutes. I'm sure that was it, so it is not a bug; rather user-errror. : )

 

[Rob Spence]

With regard to power down.

I read way back in the thread that the console saves its state every so often so if yo make a change and then power off, it may not have saved it. I do not remember the save intervals.


Sent from my iPad HD

 

[John Roberts]

re: X32 Discussion

Sorry, I should have made the distinction clearer. I just thought it would be funny if you joined the "enemy" rescearch team. You are probably the one here that is really qualified for a position in Uli's development team if I'm not barking up the wrong leg. You are the guy with several designs back in the days and even a strong involvement in that legendary and wonderful d8b that I still wish I had bought when I had the chance?

Not sure who you think I am? I had nothing to do with a Mackie anything. I have chatted with Greg at several trade shows we both found ourselves at, but mostly talking smack about other companies. They (Mackie) did invite me to interview when I quit Peavey after 15 years, but I already had my fill of corporate politics and arguing with guys who put their names in big letters on the sides of buildings, so I declined. No mas.

JR

 

[John Roberts]

re: X32 Discussion

Okay guys,

last post for one week, time is really becoming a problem

Our case is ready, my partner did a good job as always.
I spent as much time as I could spare with measuring:
concerning multiple low/high cuts in one channel/bus EQ

it works and behaves like already described ( multiple shelves are possible too, I always wanted this for channel EQ )

concerning PEQ/VEQ

VEQ behaves exactly like the bell filter in virtual EQ ( Systune) with the parameters "peak sym", "Sallen Key" ( whatever that means ), "2nd order" ( Biquad ? )
and Q value matches the console ( I measured +-3 / +-6 / +-9/ +-12dB )

Compared to VEQ, PEQ narrows bandwidth with increasing boost / cut.

Now why should the Behringer guys call VEQ variable EQ, if it is actually the other way round ?
To determine the constant Q filter, I need to calculate the bandwidth/Q from the measurement results, this is work, not fun so it has to wait.

Maybe JR can chime in, hes the man.

Have fun
Uwe

JR says ask Behringer engineers what they mean.

Sallen and Key is a popular 2 pole active filter topology.

Q in the context of boost/cut (bell) EQ is not uniquely defined by any standards body (AFAIK).

Good luck...

JR

PS I sold a kit parametric EQ I designed back in the '70s where I made the Q intentionally interact with the amount of boost/cut, so that narrow Q had more boost/cut and wide Q had less, for a first order loudness normalization...

 

[Per Søvik]

re: X32 Discussion

Not sure who you think I am? I had nothing to do with a Mackie anything. I have chatted with Greg at several trade shows we both found ourselves at, but mostly talking smack about other companies. They (Mackie) did invite me to interview when I quit Peavey after 15 years, but I already had my fill of corporate politics and arguing with guys who put their names in big letters on the sides of buildings, so I declined. No mas.

JR

PS I sold a kit parametric EQ I designed back in the '70s where I made the Q intentionally interact with the amount of boost/cut, so that narrow Q had more boost/cut and wide Q had less, for a first order loudness normalization...

Right guy, sort of, got mixed up with the companies and part of the history obviously. I believe I might have used your EQ in my mixer, it has long disappeared, but I might still have the invoice for the pcb's ~~:smile:
Seem to remember I got the pcb's off some magazine's pcb service though, but if it is the one, it was an amazing thing, or at least I thought so at the time having never used or heard such a thing before, just heard about similar thingies in studio mixers ~;-)~:wink:
Good times!!

 

[Christian Boche]

re: X32 Discussion

I have a PC tablet (ThinkPad tablet X61) with XControl loaded. The software works great, and controls the console flawlessly. The bug issue is that for my PC, I find that I need to re-load the X32 console IP address on the PC XControl network connect screen everytime I start up the software to use. The XControl software on the tablet 'remembers' an incorrect default console IP address, instead of the actual console IP address that I have entered. So everytime I use the remote PC, I have to manually enter the correct console IP address. Once I do that, everything is fine, and it works great. The problem is that upon shutdown, the next time I use the remote PC, it recalls the same wrong IP address, so I have to re-enter the correct one.

This is strange indeed, because it works automatically everytime I connect my X41 to the X32, BUT got a friend who run into the exact same problem! He tried it with two different computers and he always have to set up the IP manually. I have almost no network or TCP/IP skills, maybe someone could step in. I really would like to know too, what is causing this.
Christian

 

[Jorge Duarte]

re: X32 Discussion

I'm really happy playing with my x32, just have 2 questions so you can tell me if this is normal behavior or if I have a problem:

1. All the faders work great by themselves and also when changing layers, but if I link 2 channels, ( as the effects return) while I move one fader the other follows it but with lot of shaking and noise, is this on purpose or mine has a problem?

2. I run the noise channels test with all the gain up 100% and nothing connected, with the faders down no noise on the meters (so no problem there) but if I leave everything the same( nothing connected, gain 100% up) and take a couple faders up and the main fader all the way up, I get signal on main LR Meters, is this correct?or again I have a problem?
Please help me as I'm leaving usa to take this board to a church in the caribbean and if it has a problem is better to go to GC and change it before my flight...
I'm really impresed with this board, thanks behringer for making it possible for small churches to go digital!

 

[Christian Boche]

re: X32 Discussion

but if I leave everything the same( nothing connected, gain 100% up) and take a couple faders up and the main fader all the way up, I get signal on main LR Meters, is this correct?

This is normal. You added +60dB above unity gain on 32 channels - every mixer would show some level on the main outs with this gain.
Concerning the fader. The second one is always a bit slower and sometimes it does not run completly smoothless though a long fader ride. If it is really noisy or wobbly, than something is wrong.

Christian

 

[Jorge Duarte]

re: X32 Discussion

Thanks for your quick answer Christian, you are like a real hero in this forum, regarding the faders the thing is by themselves they work great, but anyone you pick and link to other then starts shaking a lot and producing big noise depending the speed you turn the fader up or down, so I don't think it's the hardware, but can you link to channels on yours and try this out to see if you get the same result, tomorrow is my last day to go to Guitar Center I'm flying saturday...help appreciated

 

[Karl Barnes]

re: X32 Discussion

OK, here's an observation.
I took my X32 to a band rehearsal at the weekend.
The band plugged into the local PA. My desk was there for an outing just to see what could be done with it.
All the guys have DI boxes, on which I duly used the XLR outputs. They used the link outs to go into submixers and then into the PA from there. Not quite the way we gig, but not far off it. Either way I take the XLR out from the DI boxes.
There was no direct output from the X32 to the PA being used. I was monitoring using headphones so as not to interfere with the rehearsal.
I connected up the X32 to my laptop using a CAT5 cable (didn't use USB as I will eventually use a wireless router with the system).
The weird thing happened when I hooked up the USB output from the expansion card to test the 32 track recording.
The moment the USB connection between the desk was made, a loud hum started up on the PA.
I unplugged the USB cable and the hum stopped.
I repeated plugging the cable in and the hum came back.
The problem was solved by removing the mains power from the laptop which would suggest that there is a ground loop of some sort when a laptop is connecting using both the Ethernet (for XControl) and USB (for recording). This was OK for an hour until the battery ran out, which would therefore not be an ideal way to set up for a gig.
I've never had this problem with this laptop (Dell Studio 17) with any system I've used before (used to have a O1v96 connected via USB and audio thru a Lexicon Alpha soundcard).
OK, so a quick fix would be to use a wireless router and connect wirelessly, but why should I have to do this?
If the laptop is sited next to the desk I would always prefer to use a physical connection to a wireless one.
This is not a complaint, it's not going to have me sending my desk back or stop me from gigging with it, it's just an observation. I've never had this sort of function available to me before, but it would be nice to be able to use it.

Any thoughts?
Anyone?

KB

 

[Alan Geering]

re: X32 Discussion

I unplugged the USB cable and the hum stopped.
I repeated plugging the cable in and the hum came back.
The problem was solved by removing the mains power from the laptop

I have had this before with a couple of laptops whilst feeding audio to mixers. The worst day was when using a cheap aftermarket power supply. Using battery was the solution as I didn't have any isolation transformer to test. The dell original power supply I tested the next day was fine.

Remember the laptop isn't earthed in the same way as the mixer. I have seen small sparks between VGA cable shields and laptops due to the potential difference between the laptop "ground" and the actually grounded equipment it was being connected too.

Ethernet was not a problem as the standard is designed to be more immune to these issues. USB however being designed for short distance and power is different.

Try a different PSU first. If that doesn't work there may be some other options.

 

[Alan Geering]

re: X32 Discussion

If that doesn't work there may be some other options.

(Ignore this line as it's incorrect - as pointed out below the device isn't fast enought) Like this: USB Isolator, Galvanic Isolated USB 2.0 - Electronics-shop.dk galvanic isolation for USB (end)

Or use FireWire. Galvanic (or capacitative) isolation is recommended but not required in the transceiver specification but not implemented by every manufacturer so your mileage may vary. Generally I still prefer FW for audio and leave USB for pinters, mice, etc.


Alternatively, but something I have never tried... what about a USB (ground/shield) to mains ground pin plug? Now I am not recommending you do this but the idea is to give a low resistance ground path to laptop.

 

[Per Søvik]

re: X32 Discussion

<snip>

concerning PEQ/VEQ

VEQ behaves exactly like the bell filter in virtual EQ ( Systune) with the parameters "peak sym", "Sallen Key" ( whatever that means ), "2nd order" ( Biquad ? )
and Q value matches the console ( I measured +-3 / +-6 / +-9/ +-12dB )

Compared to VEQ, PEQ narrows bandwidth with increasing boost / cut.

Now why should the Behringer guys call VEQ variable EQ, if it is actually the other way round ?
To determine the constant Q filter, I need to calculate the bandwidth/Q from the measurement results, this is work, not fun so it has to wait.

OK, that makes sense to me, sort of. I have given up understanding Q in filters, because the definitions don't make practical sense to me, and have adopted a rule of thumb that makes sense to me in musical terms. I'm visualizing it as gauss curve where Q is sort of the inverse of the standard deviation in such a way that the inverse of Q represent the octave bandwith of the significantly audible effect of the EQ. Again, totally wrong as such, but it sort of tells me where I'm heading.

 

[Per Søvik]

re: X32 Discussion

This is strange indeed, because it works automatically everytime I connect my X41 to the X32, BUT got a friend who run into the exact same problem! He tried it with two different computers and he always have to set up the IP manually. I have almost no network or TCP/IP skills, maybe someone could step in. I really would like to know too, what is causing this.
Christian

I would think the problem is that the PC or tablet is set up with a static ip, if you tell the access point to assign ip automatically, and tell the pc or tablet to accept dynamic ip, it should be a breeze as long as the static ip on the X32 doesn't conflict with the router's own ip and is on the same subnet, ie they should share the first three numbers 192.168.1.xxx

 

[Karl Barnes]

re: X32 Discussion

I'm using the original Dell PSU, not an aftermarket one.
Like I said, never had a ground loop with it before.

That galvanic isolator is only good for a 12Mbps USB connection.
Yes, that's described as Full Speed, but it's not the full 480Mbps rate. That's known as High Speed.
32 channels of audio at 48KHz would need 48MBps if my maths is right.

Thanks anyway. It looks like I'll have to run control over a wireless connection whilst recording over USB.

KB.