X32 Discussion

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Mono sub

Hello all from lake . yes weekend without job,,,

So obviously I do not have my X32 puppy here, but am still reading this discussion. I recall there is a screen, where you can see LR and MONO plus their levelmeters. i do not recall there being a LINK-option, but would that be easily software -upgradable? That way signal being sent to AUX-sub or MONO-sub would simply be tapped out from channels MONO-send - thus saving one BUS.

I plan to bring that signal to my Behringer Ultradrive C-input, while LR goes into A & B. All necessary processing is there.


But yes - I wish it would follow my master faders - how about it, Behringer people? Software upgrade.


Und Pappa sagt DANKE !!!
 
Re: Mono sub

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
So obviously I do not have my X32 puppy here, but am still reading this discussion. I recall there is a screen, where you can see LR and MONO plus their levelmeters. i do not recall there being a LINK-option, but would that be easily software -upgradable? That way signal being sent to AUX-sub or MONO-sub would simply be tapped out from channels MONO-send - thus saving one BUS.

I plan to bring that signal to my Behringer Ultradrive C-input, while LR goes into A & B. All necessary processing is there.


But yes - I wish it would follow my master faders - how about it, Behringer people? Software upgrade.
Click to expand...

::sigh::

I spent 10 minutes crafting a post, and then decided I couldn't explain it any further.

@Behringer: The X32 routing on the M/C and L/R works perfectly as designed. I'd be very happy if you added more filter types and slopes on the buses, increased the precision of the delay on the outputs, and added polarity reversal to the outputs.

Eric H.
 
Re: Mono sub

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
I plan to bring that signal to my Behringer Ultradrive C-input, while LR goes into A & B.
Click to expand...

It would be better to pull L/R out of the X32 via the AES/EBU XLR, and go into the DCX2496's "A" XLR. Then, set the DCX2496's input to AES/EBU. (AES/EBU will carry both the L/R signals.)

You'll avoid a digital-to-analog conversion (D/A) out of the X32, and an analog-to-digital (A/D) conversion on the DCX2496. (Unfortunately, the sub signal will still have to go through this step.)

Then, assign Output 14 on the X32 to get its signal from the M/C bus, post-fader. Go from Output 14 to the "C" input on the DCX2496.

On the channels you want to send to the subs... Route the channel to the M/C bus. If you have adjacent channels that are linked, set the M/C buss on the channel to -6 dB. Otherwise, set it at 0.

Also:

a) Route the channel to the L/R bus.

OR

b) Route the channel to a sub-group that is also routed to the L/R bus.

No need to use separate L/R buses for this, unless you want to. Just make sure the channel somehow finds its way into the L/R bus, post-fader.

Use the procedure I already defined to check that a stable test tone is tracking equally on Outputs 14, 15, and 16. Don't use the built-in function generator for this. The point is to independently confirm that a signal is processed correctly from outside the X32, through the X32, and out the X32.

Eric H.
 
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re: X32 Discussion

Eric Hill - USA said:
I'm not referring to Scenes or Shows. (Although, I believe the question applies to multiple Shows, too.)

Individual Channel configurations can be saved in the Library. But, if you want to export those to a USB stick, it has to be done one-by-one. (Unless I'm missing something.)

Eric H.
Click to expand...

The "something" you are missing is that you already got your answer :razz:
A scene applies to the whole board, and if you want to save a board configuration, you save that as a scene, unchecking every SAFE there is, unless I am missing something as well, which is not unlikely ;)~;-)~:wink:
 
re: X32 Discussion

Per Søvik said:
The "something" you are missing is that you already got your answer :razz:
A scene applies to the whole board, and if you want to save a board configuration, you save that as a scene, unchecking every SAFE there is, unless I am missing something as well, which is not unlikely ;)~;-)~:wink:
Click to expand...

I don't think the Library is saved as part of Scenes or Shows.

I did a factory reset, reloaded a previously exported Show from a USB stick, reloaded a Scene, and went into the Library, and nothing was there.

Basically, I don't think there is a way to backup the entire Library in one step, nor is there a way to backup all of the Shows in one step. (That's a lot of work, exporting up to 200 items manually.)
__________

Some of these firmware issues will probably be worked out over time, as people begin to work with the board. Sometimes concepts that function well as one's or two's don't scale well.

I can already see the item that needs to be worked through... When you export an item, it goes into a single file, which you have the opportunity to name. If the firmware were to allow bulk-export, what happens if the file name already exists? It can't really ask you to confirm every file. That's probably just as bad as exporting every item manually. An easy way to deal with this is just to append the current date and time to the file name, and let the person deal with the files later. Built-in versioning.

Bulk-import presents an entirely different problem, though.

As an aside, Behringer designed the file naming perfectly on recorded files... yyyymmdd. By putting the year first, then the month, then the day, it's perfectly sorted.

Lots of people use mm-dd-yyyy. That's fine when you have a few files in a folder. But, when you get a few hundred, and everything is sorted by month, it's agrivating.

Eric H.
 
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re: X32 Discussion

Jim Schmidtke said:
Does anyone know if there has been any talk of adding the ability to import additional scribble strip icons? As an example, I'd like to have a metronome icon for studio use.
Click to expand...

Interesting you mention that... I'm only using a couple of icons. I found that I like the larger font if there is no icon.

To each his own.

Eric H.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Eric Hill - USA said:
I don't think the Library is saved as part of Scenes or Shows.
Click to expand...
:blush: As i said, it was not unlikely that I missed something. Preset libraries are of course not in a scene or show export, and it is really surprising that library managment is missing, it should really be there somewhere and I can't believe that it has been omitted. Library managment is part of allmost every plugin, so to not have it on a console makes me think it is either a bug (has been implemented but no way of getting there) or just really well hidden or too obvious for us to notice.
As an aside, Behringer designed the file naming perfectly on recorded files... yyyymmdd. By putting the year first, then the month, then the day, it's perfectly sorted.
Lots of people use mm-dd-yyyy. That's fine when you have a few files in a folder. But, when you get a few hundred, and everything is sorted by month, it's agrivating.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, you Americans shouldn't be let within a hundred feet of any computer application that has anything to do with dates or time of day :lol:
 
re: X32 Discussion

Eric Hill - USA said:
Interesting you mention that... I'm only using a couple of icons. I found that I like the larger font if there is no icon.

To each his own.

Eric H.
Click to expand...

Eric,

When we switched our DAW to Sonar X1 (that supports icons), I couldn't believe how much faster I could pick out channels.
It sure reinforced to me why they say a picture is worth a thousand words. But you're right. To each his own.

JS
 
Final decision for my issues....

Hey all,

Just an update to the issues I am having:

noise on channel 32
scribble LCD contrast not matching on some of LCD's
faders not calibrated to silkscreen printing on chassis

After speaking with support we decided it would be best to get a full refund from the distributor.

I would like to thank Behringer support, namely Pat Ferdig, for their timely replies and attentiveness to my issues. I am positive the replacement will work just fine and these issues are just an unfortunate case. I am looking forward to having the complete package with the X32, S16's and P16 system working together.


Greg
 
Re: Final decision for my issues....

Hi Guys,

gig update No.49
I mixed for the last time a band, that I took care for as a substitute for their actual soundguy. This time their soundguy came in and he wanted me to give him a short introduction into the X32.
I did this own a brandnew X32, because the local pa company, providing sound & light, liked the results, when I mixed the band with my X32. The companys manager sold his Roland M400 and bought a X32. So we mixed on this desk for the first that evening.

The original soundguy for the Band is Ruben Tilgner, a developer of serious pro audio gear. He worked long time for SPL and invented the SPL Transient Designer, the SPL Gain Stage and many other cool SPL Hardware. Now he runs his own high end pro audio company, called Elysia ( elysia*-*sounds good! ). For example his 8000,- Euro Alpha compressor ( elysia*-*hardware*-*alpha compressor*-*introduction ) is installed some of best known high end mastering studios in the world. In addition, Ruben is a hell of a soundguy too! So I was very curious, what he is thinking about the X32. I gave him a quick inside (about ten minutes) and he was able to do the soundcheck right away! Of course he was checking the dynamic and fx section carefully and he liked, what he heard. He came even up with the idea, if Behringer wouldn't be interessed, to implement a plugin version of his "mpressor" compressor. It is already available as a VST plugin ( elysia*-*software*-*mpressor*-*introduction ) and he liked the idea, to have it in the X32 too. Now, that he has to mix on this desk anyway, when this pa company and is band is involved:-)
Anyway, he was quite impressed by the overall sound quality of the X32 and this guy is very demanding in terms of sound-quality.

So, the new desk ran fine a four hour show and now I'm preparing for this night me doing gig no. 50 with my own desk.
I will report tomorrow:-)

Some pics:


Ruben and a brand new X32:-)


Soundcheck


Showtime
 
AUX / Mono - sub one more time + AES/EBU connection question

Hello


Rain started at lake - so we headed home....


FIRST

Immediately after unpacking I got into X32.... Feeding signal from CD into ch 15 & 16 I routed the output to go both LR & Mono Bus - Mono bus has its master fader in layer #4 on right faderbank, so I tweaked the sound there to act as x-over sub-band. On LR / Master I cut the low end out. So everything goes swell there - I do get low band for selected channels only - while rest of the channels go only to fullrange top cabinets starting at 60-80Hz up - so goodbye rumble issues - welcome tight clean low end.

BUT - one problem still remains - it is not possible to link the two master faders ( at least I could not figure it out ) - so I am in a situation, where if I ever for any reason should want to finetune overall level, I have to do so with TWO faders instead of one. Sure the master fader is always there, but the low-band master is behind layer switch 99,9% of time, since I practically never use the matrix....

Notice - I am talking of finetuning only - of course I try to set up everything so the master dwells at 0 - but sometimes especially in live situation with new group nasty surprises appear from left behind the corner, and then it is best just to grab the whole system down a bit - with master fader.

So this was, what I adressed in my previous post last night - perhaps Behringer could come up with software update, that allows this.



SECOND

Then there was suggestion of sending LR via AES/EBU output into Ultradrive, which per se is a good idea - but I think it can not be realized with S16 & AES50 - please correct me if I am wrong. Actually I do not see any prblem with that either in my job - I do only live bands, and normally the crowd produces minimum 40dB SPL even at quiet concert - let alone pubs and clubs, where ambient noice is more around 80dB SPL - so the dynamic range of the system with "extra" AD/DA-conversions is more than enough anyway with ample headroom.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Eric Hill - USA said:
Unfortunately, if those people mixing are adjusting the mono and L/R buses independently, the concept isn’t understood. Which, begs the question: Was the system correctly setup for aux (bus) fed subs? Or, is there a lack of knowledge that can be corrected with education?
Click to expand...

I think it's a combination of limitations of the analog board along with not knowing better. Your link to the article has helped with the education 8)~8-)~:cool: We had a pretty good audio engineer come in and tune the room with the DSP, and that's the time he separated out the subs on the mixer too. I'll go back and look at the notes he left - he probably did tell us to sync it with the mains or not touch it, and it probably got overlooked - if it's not in the notes, a quick email will confirm the setup. I was planning to be there on the days he did all that, but I'm a volunteer with a day job so it's not always easy for me to be around. If we do get the X32, I think I will budget in some time for him to come in and work with us on integrating it as well as providing some training for myself and several other volunteers - preferably on a weekend or day when we can all be there!

Thanks again!
 
re: X32 Discussion

Eric Eskam said:
I think it's a combination of limitations of the analog board along with not knowing better. Your link to the article has helped with the education 8)~8-)~:cool: We had a pretty good audio engineer come in and tune the room with the DSP, and that's the time he separated out the subs on the mixer too. I'll go back and look at the notes he left - he probably did tell us to sync it with the mains or not touch it, and it probably got overlooked - if it's not in the notes, a quick email will confirm the setup. I was planning to be there on the days he did all that, but I'm a volunteer with a day job so it's not always easy for me to be around. If we do get the X32, I think I will budget in some time for him to come in and work with us on integrating it as well as providing some training for myself and several other volunteers - preferably on a weekend or day when we can all be there!

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I have discussed this before. I want the main L/R and sub buss send unlinked. Did a small Pink Floyd Tribute show Thursday night and having the uinked setup allows changing the feel and heft of the system with crowd changes and even when the band decides to get on it a bit extra. In smaller venues I find it useful to slightly pull down L/R and leave the sub level so the sound stays heavy and I can reduce the mid hi level to tame some transient stuff that can get harsh. This is really in setups where a lot of compression is not available or not used because of monitors running from FOH. Even though technically not absolutely correct, it seems to help more than hurt when needed.
YMMV of course. The show I did was on a system I installed 2 years ago and was my first time mixing on it with no house engineer present...for some reason.
 
Re: AUX / Mono - sub one more time + AES/EBU connection question

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
So this was, what I adressed in my previous post last night - perhaps Behringer could come up with software update, that allows this.
Click to expand...

I have allways assumed that the Mono/Centre output would be controlled by the master fader, but you are saying it is not? Both in mono and centre modus?
So we are constantly getting back to this then, that there should be a way of assigning the master either as VCA9 to several buses or link it with the faders for the buses.
There are advantages and disadvantages to either, so both would be good. Please Uli!!!
Seems there are some routing limitations on the Pro1 as well which begs the question if there is some sort of conspiracy going on to force us to either go straight or go up :lol:
 
re: X32 Discussion

Eric Eskam said:
He's got a number of great video's and seems to be adding them at a steady pace - I just discovered his Sends On Fader video, which is timely since I was trying to describe it to another volunteer I work with.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That is me. I am making the videos to train my sound team at the church. I have a lot of volunteers at the church so I wanted them to watch these videos before coming to a training class that I will hold at the church. Hopefully this will make the transition from analog to digital a bit easier for them.

If there is any videos you guys want me to make please let me know!
 
re: X32 Discussion

John Chiara said:
I have discussed this before. I want the main L/R and sub buss send unlinked. Did a small Pink Floyd Tribute show Thursday night and having the uinked setup allows changing the feel and heft of the system with crowd changes and even when the band decides to get on it a bit extra. In smaller venues I find it useful to slightly pull down L/R and leave the sub level so the sound stays heavy and I can reduce the mid hi level to tame some transient stuff that can get harsh. This is really in setups where a lot of compression is not available or not used because of monitors running from FOH. Even though technically not absolutely correct, it seems to help more than hurt when needed.
YMMV of course. The show I did was on a system I installed 2 years ago and was my first time mixing on it with no house engineer present...for some reason.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of us are asking for a change/removal of options that are already there, just options to do things differently if we want to or need to.
People work in different ways, have differing preferences and needs. Some times a small change in the way we work might be appropriate to accommodate limitations in the equipment, and these changes might even turn out to be for the better. Working on an analogue desk, it is less of a problem if you have to work five faders in tandem, because they are there all the time, and if you want them linked, you can allways do that with a clip on rail, not so on a digital desk. A digital desk not only can offer more flexibility, it has to, because it offers less in other areas, like fader count and hard-patching.
 
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