X32 Discussion

Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
Hi folks. New to this forum and new to the X32. I got mine about a week ago and have been watching tutorial videos like crazy trying to move up the learning curve and set up an initial configuration for my band. I have made a really lot of progress but questions keep coming up (no surprise) that I just don't know the answer to. I've got three for right now:
Click to expand...

1. Edit, John is of course right(next post), I seem to remember there was a problem in the early days, but that might have been related to a different setting or routing to a monitor desk. The only real way around all issues related to different requirements for main mix and monitors is to split the signal into two channels, and have a monitor layer and a mix layer if you are not using the channels. Then you can have eq that is suited to the monitors and you are free to do whatever you want for the main mix, including inserts that might add too much latency for monitor use (particularly iem)

2. Mirror, you have the same output on the desk and on the S16.

3. -18 dBFS is a good nominal level to use throughout, that will give you +4dBu or thereabouts on the outputs if your output meters also are around -18dBFS (where they turn yellow)
 
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Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Hi Rob,
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new X32. Here are some answers for you:
1. You can send a signal to a bus with EQ and without dynamics. To do this, you will need your dynamics to be after the EQ in your signal chain for the channel and choose a "Post EQ" send to the mix bus.
2. When configured this way, the S16 mirrors the outputs on the back of the X32. This is because "OUT 1-8" & "OUT 9-16" send the signals assigned on the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu, which is also what feeds the 16 XLR outputs.
3. As you mention, there are a few different opinions on this. The point is that you don't want to clip at all in the digital domain, so 0dB is your ceiling. In the analog world peaks often well above 0, by 10dB or more, and this often is where some of the best analog consoles shine. The reason for setting input gains to -18dB or -12dB is to leave yourself that same headroom you have in the analog world. How much headroom you need will depend on the dynamics of your band, but I would agree with -18dB as a good starting point.

Hope it helps! If you haven't already, checkout the BEHRINGER YouTube channel for our Webinar videos on various X32 topics.
 
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Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Specifically dealing with input trim: almost every digital mixer references 0 (zero)DBFS. That's the point at which you have run out of "ones" and there is no further output available. It results is a very nasty sounding form of clipping. There is no headroom as we think of it in analog circuits.

With most digital mixers, I've found that using the PFL meter, bring the trim up until the -18ish LED blinks is a good starting point. Some mixers have a bit more room at the top (hidden behind when the LEDs actually fire), but start conservatively.
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Well I thought I had my configuration all together and was finally ready to start testing. After all, so far I haven't even plugged in an input or output to the board or S16. I have spent all of my time creating an initial configuration for my band.

So I plugged a mic into Ch 1 on the S16 and a pair of headphones into the X32. I also pulled up the meters screen (in/out) so I could see all meters at one time.

I set the input gain for the mic and starting talking. My monitor busses all had signal which was good.

Now here's the thing: Using as an example, vocals, I route 5 vocal channels (1-5) to a stereo mix bus (7-8), I route the stereo mix bus (7-8) to LR, and the I route the LR to my matrixes (1-3).

The issue is this: I see the meters moving for the channel, I see the meters moving for the monitor busses (1-6), but there is no meter movement on the vocal group bus (7-8), LR, or Matrix meters. I have checked the vocal group bus to make sure channels are allocated and that their faders are up (0db). I just can't figure out what I've got wrong.

I tried calling tech support but no one answered. I am guessing early Labor Day weekend exodus :)

I hate waiting until Tuesday to find out what I've got wrong so I'm hoping someone on this forum can help me. If you don't want to type a bunch or want to ask me questions, just send me a message and I'll give you my phone number and we can talk on the phone. I can't believe my issue won't be simple to fix but I'm stumped right at the moment. Don't really want to continue with testing everything when I can't get the first channel I tested to route correctly all the way through.

Please help me ............ thanks ............... Rob
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
Please help me ............ thanks ............... Rob
Click to expand...

Let's see. Is 7-8 configured as SubGroup (recommended) or PostFader on your sends? If so, are you channel faders up?
Are the sends unmuted?

There are some quirks that you might come across at this point: Assuming you are using SubGroup, and you select mixbus 7 or 8 and then sends on fader, and proceed to pull up the faders to get signal to the subgroup. You'd think that you would get a signal, wouldn't you? Well, you can move the faders, but in subgroupmode they are deactivated and perform no function.

So, if you are in subgroup mode for the send to 7-8, then it is the actual channel fader that governs the level.

If the channel faders are up, channel and sends are unmuted, then let's move on to DCA.

Any DCA assigned to the channels or mixbuses in question, if so then unassign or make sure the DCA faders are pulled up to zero.
By now you should have signal on the mixbus.

If at any point you give up or need advice about something, save the scene to a usb stick and post it for us to have a look
 
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Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Well I keep learning. That was exactly my problem. I did not know that subgroups react differently than mix busses with respect to Sends on Fader. Once I pulled up my real channel faders, everything started to look as I was expecting it to.

Thank you so much! Now onto the next problem I don't know I have yet :).

Rob
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Well I didn't think my next problem would be an hour later, but there you go.

This regards the headphone connection. I have a set of Sony headphones. From what I can research it appears they are 45Ohm headphones. When I connect them to the x32, they work but even with the headphone level turned all the way up they are very low. Are the headphones the problem? If so, can I get a recommendation of what specific type of headphone I should have (not necessarily a specific brand but a specific set of requirements for the headphones??

Thanks ........... Rob
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Per Søvik said:
Let's see. Is 7-8 configured as SubGroup (recommended) or PostFader on your sends? If so, are you channel faders up?
Are the sends unmuted?

There are some quirks that you might come across at this point: Assuming you are using SubGroup, and you select mixbus 7 or 8 and then sends on fader, and proceed to pull up the faders to get signal to the subgroup. You'd think that you would get a signal, wouldn't you? Well, you can move the faders, but in subgroupmode they are deactivated and perform no function.

So, if you are in subgroup mode for the send to 7-8, then it is the actual channel fader that governs the level.

If the channel faders are up, channel and sends are unmuted, then let's move on to DCA.

Any DCA assigned to the channels or mixbuses in question, if so then unassign or make sure the DCA faders are pulled up to zero.
By now you should have signal on the mixbus.

If at any point you give up or need advice about something, save the scene to a usb stick and post it for us to have a look
Click to expand...

This leads me to another question: Can a channel belong to more than one subgroup? And if so, how would you handle fader levels?
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
This leads me to another question: Can a channel belong to more than one subgroup? And if so, how would you handle fader levels?
Click to expand...

It can belong to as many subgroups as you want, but if you want to have different fader levels, then you need to do a postfade send instead, which will work more or less the same except for the extra level adjustment and having to do balance with the sends instead of with the main balance for the channel.
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
Well I didn't think my next problem would be an hour later, but there you go.

This regards the headphone connection. I have a set of Sony headphones. From what I can research it appears they are 45Ohm headphones. When I connect them to the x32, they work but even with the headphone level turned all the way up they are very low. Are the headphones the problem? If so, can I get a recommendation of what specific type of headphone I should have (not necessarily a specific brand but a specific set of requirements for the headphones??

Thanks ........... Rob
Click to expand...
There is of course the quick fix assuming you still have headroom on the output (main levels not at 0dBFS), you can turn up levels in the monitor menu in addition to the analogue control at the surface.

I have some vintage AKG K140 that are very high impedance and they work fine, but then I'm not really fond of ear-shattering levels.
What model are your headphones? Active? Noise cancelling with a flat battery? I'm not sure what the output of the headphone amp is, if it is 12volts maximum or 3.5 volts maximum (+25dBm at either 40 ohms or 600 ohms), but even at 3.5 volts, and relatively insensitive headphones, you should still be able to reach 115dB
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

My headphones are Sony MDR-V250. And with the headphone level turned all the way up I still would never hear it with the band playing. So 115dB is a long way up from where I'm at now.
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
My headphones are Sony MDR-V250. And with the headphone level turned all the way up I still would never hear it with the band playing. So 115dB is a long way up from where I'm at now.
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According to the Sony website they are 24 ohms and 98dB/mW. They should go above 120dB peak on the X32, so it depends a lot on the isolation of the bells if that is loud enough for you.
You're sure the volume control on the headphones works properly?

As I mentioned, go into the monitor menu and adjust levels there. If that doesn't do it for you, you might need to look at other headphones with higher sensitivity and better isolation, because the X32 should be able to push these headphones near to their power handling limit of 500mW.
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Per Søvik said:
According to the Sony website they are 24 ohms and 98dB/mW. They should go above 120dB peak on the X32, so it depends a lot on the isolation of the bells if that is loud enough for you.
You're sure the volume control on the headphones works properly?

As I mentioned, go into the monitor menu and adjust levels there. If that doesn't do it for you, you might need to look at other headphones with higher sensitivity and better isolation, because the X32 should be able to push these headphones near to their power handling limit of 500mW.
Click to expand...

Tried my Bose noise cancelling headphones and they are much louder. Don't really want to bring them to every gig though. Maybe there's something wrong with my Sony phones??

I have another question: I recently got an iPad and I am trying out the xicontrol app on it. Pretty cool. I am watching a video about it which I guess is a little old. It is showing that for each channel there is a button for turning +48V on and off. On my copy of the app (just downloaded yesterday) I can't find that particular option. Was it removed or am I just missing it somewhere?
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
Tried my Bose noise cancelling headphones and they are much louder. Don't really want to bring them to every gig though. Maybe there's something wrong with my Sony phones??
Click to expand...
That is entirely possible, but there might be 10 dB difference between two sets of headphones.

I have another question: I recently got an iPad and I am trying out the xicontrol app on it. Pretty cool. I am watching a video about it which I guess is a little old. It is showing that for each channel there is a button for turning +48V on and off. On my copy of the app (just downloaded yesterday) I can't find that particular option. Was it removed or am I just missing it somewhere?
Click to expand...
It is located just below the gain pot in the detail view.
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Per Søvik said:
That is entirely possible, but there might be 10 dB difference between two sets of headphones.


It is located just below the gain pot in the detail view.
Click to expand...


There is nothing below the Trim knob. The knobs say Trim, Delay, and Low Cut. The buttons below that (only 2) say Delay and Low Cut. No +48V button.


While we're at it, I have yet another question: how to I regulate what the headphones are listening to? In other words, what do I do, for instance, to listen to Mix Bus 1 (monitor send) or to listen to an Aux In, anything else besides just L/R?
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

When the knob is named tim, then check your routing. Gain and 48V is only available when you have routed any local in or AES50 in to that channel.

To hear other signals than LR you have to use the solo button of the desired signal. For instance if you want to hear the mixbus 1 press the solo button of it. You can determine how solo works by pressing the monitors view button and the you can set the desired options.
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Klaus Mock said:
When the knob is named tim, then check your routing. Gain and 48V is only available when you have routed any local in or AES50 in to that channel.

To hear other signals than LR you have to use the solo button of the desired signal. For instance if you want to hear the mixbus 1 press the solo button of it. You can determine how solo works by pressing the monitors view button and the you can set the desired options.
Click to expand...

OK now I am really baffled. I just brought up my iPad to look at the routing and ensure nothing weird was going on and now the "Trim" knob says "Gain" and the +48v buttons are there. I don't know why they weren't there before and now they are. Crazy!

Thanks for the info about monitoring. I looked at the screens and read the section in the manual about that screen and now I understand how to listen to monitor sends, etc.

You guys are going to make me look good when I finally get together with my band and use my new X32 :)

Next Question: Are all the meters supposed to stay around -18dB? Or are the Main LR meters different than the input channel meters? What about the mix bus meters?
 
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Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Per Søvik said:
According to the Sony website they are 24 ohms and 98dB/mW. They should go above 120dB peak on the X32, so it depends a lot on the isolation of the bells if that is loud enough for you.
You're sure the volume control on the headphones works properly?

As I mentioned, go into the monitor menu and adjust levels there. If that doesn't do it for you, you might need to look at other headphones with higher sensitivity and better isolation, because the X32 should be able to push these headphones near to their power handling limit of 500mW.
Click to expand...


24 ohms is a bit low for the X32, as the source impedance of the headphone amp is about 37 ohms, so over half the available voltage swing is going to be lost. See earlier discussion here: http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/4393-x32-discussion-188.html#post44666
 
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Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Hi all. I have some questions about metering: Basically I understand that with the 32 main analog channels I should set my Gain to about -18dB. So:

1. How about for Aux input? Is it the same?
2. How does it work for Analog outputs? Like if I have a mix bus being used for a monitor send, what should those meters read for that bus?
3. How about the LR meters that are on the right hand side of the display? It seems like keeping those at -18dB is going to be difficult. Am I supposed to or is that meter different.

So as you can see, I am confused about the differences in metering between XLR inputs, AUX inputs, Mix Buses, Matrix channels, and the main LR meters by the display screen.

Can someone please help me understand this?

Thanks ................ Rob
 
Re: Master/Slave X32 with X32 Compact

Robert Goldberg said:
Hi all. I have some questions about metering: Basically I understand that with the 32 main analog channels I should set my Gain to about -18dB. So:

1. How about for Aux input? Is it the same?
2. How does it work for Analog outputs? Like if I have a mix bus being used for a monitor send, what should those meters read for that bus?
3. How about the LR meters that are on the right hand side of the display? It seems like keeping those at -18dB is going to be difficult. Am I supposed to or is that meter different.

So as you can see, I am confused about the differences in metering between XLR inputs, AUX inputs, Mix Buses, Matrix channels, and the main LR meters by the display screen.

Can someone please help me understand this?

Thanks ................ Rob
Click to expand...

Meter scale is the same for all sources on the X32, they are all referenced to 0dBFS. Depending on down-stream equipment you may need more or less output level. That's why there are faders and other ways of changing levels.
 
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