X32 Discussion

Re: X Control v0.91

Shane, I can't agree with you on this. Vocalists very often want the reverb back in their monitors. Especially the needy, insecure cabaret-type singers, usually female, (sorry about that ladies) whose monitor engineers often have to double as psychiatrists!
:D~:-D~:grin:

Mick Berg.

Oh i dont disagree that i get asked for it by the above mentioned demographic. I just say no... Same as crack
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

This is for everyone - Please change the title of your post if it does not concern scene protection. It's important that requests for scene protection be clearly seen by the Behringer staff.

You can do it if you edit your post in "advanced " mode.
Thanks,
Mick Berg.

I think you've made your point Mick, and I think Behringer staff was well aware of the request before the "crusade for protection" started. As has been said before, these things take time to implement, its not something where a person can snap their fingers and the software miraculously has the requested features. If you're really concerned that it has not been put on the to do list, why not ask one of the Behringer employees here in a PM if it is in the works? I'm looking forward to this feature probably just as much as you are (it is in fact one of my primary reasons for pushing my employer for a digital board and now here's one in our price range, just waiting on that feature) but I know that it will take time and continuously requesting and re-requesting the same thing won't make it come any faster - there are still other things that probably need to be worked out on a more pressing basis (ie, lets work on making sure bugs affecting current gigs are taken care of first - In most cases I think a bug causing a fader to shoot itself to full-tilt-boogie for no reason is more important than scene protection at the current time.)

I'll be completely honest I don't think a lot of people even look at the titles of the posts, I know I don't because I know that they don't usually match, nor is it going to be possible to get everyone to do so, no matter how many times someone makes the request.
 
Re: Reverb through monitors

An every day request for me - and not just for cabaret singers - well known names and bands often want this. I must admit over the years it's one reason I've always returned the reverb through a channel, not via a normal return. You can then send bits of it wherever it's wanted - and it's quick and easy, letting you quickly remove the reverb when they speak.
 
Re: Reverb through monitors

An every day request for me - and not just for cabaret singers - well known names and bands often want this. I must admit over the years it's one reason I've always returned the reverb through a channel, not via a normal return. You can then send bits of it wherever it's wanted - and it's quick and easy, letting you quickly remove the reverb when they speak.
I second this, reverb in the mons is a regular request and in my experience makes the singers perform better. As a singer myself though I prefer to have no fold back at all (!) except at the largest gigs, I get more than enough fold back including effects off the FOH.
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

In reference to this, I would ask anyone who feels that there should be protected scenes, to post a request on this forum. We know that the Behringer folks listen to us here, and maybe if we make enough noise something will happen.

(Mods, I hope I'm not out of line here???)

Thanks,
Mick Berg.

Hi Mick,

This request has been noted and passed on to our development team.

I will see if I can get any info on this request.

We definitely hear you and all requests for X32 improvements.

Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: Reverb through monitors

I've always returned the reverb through a channel, not via a normal return.

But for the X32 you can use the bus sends on the FX returns by default, it's allready there.
icon_confused.gif


For me also the possibility to have eq after the effect, would be nice, I use that quite a lot to shape the sound.

I found that using the aux input faders I can apply EQ to the returns. So it's not really necessary to use a input channel on the X32.

Would be nice if in that case I could select the input for the (dedicated) FX returns, so some secondary input source can be fed through a aux input on the back straight into the mix.

But if there's enough processing power available, added eq on the FX returns would be a better solution. (Maybe some simple 2 band shelving type if that would make it easier.)
 
Re: Reverb through monitors, FX EQ

Although I agree FX in monitors is considered less than ideal, I would never make hard fast rules about any way of doing things, recording or live sound. If a touch of reverb makes the singer more confident, and thus sing better, then why not? I could easily see this conversation: "Hey can you call the other sound guy you know? The last one we had refused to give me any reverb. What a jerk." I'd rather appease the people paying me money than satisfying my own personal set of rules which may or may not have any merit.

But if there's enough processing power available, added eq on the FX returns would be a better solution. (Maybe some simple 2 band shelving type if that would make it easier.)

I know the reverb and delays, if not most all FX in the board have simple shelving EQ's. They are in the banks of settings within that effect. I don't have the board in front of me at the moment, so I can't see specifically where they are but I know their there.


Also on a side note (sorry it's not included in my subject line), I'm hoping the updated version of XiControl will also allow us control of the tap tempo for delays. That is a function I regularly use when I have the board in front of me, but can't if I'm mixing from the iPad.
 
Faulty channel strip #5

Hi All!

I've been lurking around on this site for a while and got my X32 with two S16 just before xmas... run the first two day show with 7 bands with pride and joy! Everybody were happy, it sounded OK and the visiting FOH guys were happy with it! It didn't take long for the seasoned guys to figure out the desk.

But - I seem to have an issue with 5th channel strip. One led dead and lower audio output than on other channels... I was having a wrestle with myself whether to buy this or A&H GLD80. The financial issue won, X32 system was about half the price... And now I am already regretting my decision.

12120035.jpg12120036.jpg

I have ruled out the cable and the source. It can be reproduced on all layers.

The X32 has been shipped from Germany to Finland, I had it at home one day to learn how to set it up, then I travelled 35 km to the show and now it has developed a fault already... It has a Thon case for it and it has been handled as it is supposed to be, very carefully that is... I am sure, that it was functioning properly at home. I have a spooky feeling that this has happened to me with Behringer products before, but based on all the praise and good words on the internet, I was willing to give the brand a second chance.

So now I will be testing the effectiveness of the warranty system, unfortunately starting the process next year due to holidays. I have the next multi band show on the 12th, so I certainly hope I could get a replacement before that...

Oh boy, I should have listened to the wise guys. You get what you pay for...

regards,

/Kari
 
No audio from PC via USB/Firewire

I got the board all setup and did a practice run last night at church, no problems at all! Went to playback some music from the PC and cannot seem to get the audio routing right. I was connected via the firewire, I have the drivers loaded on the PC and the control panel see's the board. When I play music I get nothing. I tried changing the default audio playback which lists the Behringer....aux01/02, Behringer....aux03/04, Behringer....aux05/06, Behringer....aux07/08 Since the board came with USB AUX return set on 7/8 I switched the default device to that set. Still nothing.

I then thought maybe its a USB only return so I downloaded the USB device drivers for the board. Installed them and did the same routing change in the windows control panel/sound. And changed the default audio device to Behringer....aux07/08. Still nothing

My observations:

1. I can "see" the audio playing in the default audio dialog box via the little audio meter beside whichever device I select.
2. When I goto the task bar and click on the speaker icon it shows which devices & programs are playing back music. In there I get no meters indicating audio is playing

Its a Windows 7 x64 PC.

Wayne
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

I seem to have an issue with 5th channel strip. One led dead and lower audio output than on other channels...

I can understand that a dead LED on a channel strip would persist through all layers; that makes complete sense. Do you mean, though, that the lower level on channel 5 is also present on channel 17 and aux 5? This would really surprise me, since I would expect the problem to be on at the preamp or converters. Does the problem persist even when you route, say, input #1 to channel 5? Or whether you use the inputs on the board or the S16?

So now I will be testing the effectiveness of the warranty system, unfortunately starting the process next year due to holidays. I have the next multi band show on the 12th, so I certainly hope I could get a replacement before that...

Like most users, I haven't needed any warranty service, but, as you may have read on this forum, those who have had warranty support and posted about it here have reported very positively. Failure rates for the console have been found to be well within norms. And although annoying, something like a burnt out LED isn't exactly a show stopper. Consider the alternative: paying for mil-spec or space rated parts that have already been burnt in and cost at least ten times as much, if not more. Not even all satellites use space rated components anymore, due to cost, preferring to accept a certain level of risk and just putting up a couple more birds instead.

A&H makes some good gear. However, the LED's and A/D converters are basically the same, and I would be surprised if the assembly methods were appreciatively different, so your chance of having a problem with the GLD80 would have been roughly the same. You may be disappointed that you got the "lucky" board, but please try to keep this in prespective.


Oh boy, I should have listened to the wise guys. You get what you pay for...

Yes, there is often correlation between cost and quality, and you can't get "something for nothing," but quality is hardly proportional to cost. Just consider: if you hand-built a custom imitator of the GLD80 or X32 from scratch, even though you spent orders of magnitude more money the build quality still wouldn't be as good. Behringer is able to offer this price point because of very careful material selection (esp. the faders), streamlining of assembly, and, critically, high volume.

Cheer up! :)~:)~:smile:
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

Hi All!

I've been lurking around on this site for a while and got my X32 with two S16 just before xmas... run the first two day show with 7 bands with pride and joy! Everybody were happy, it sounded OK and the visiting FOH guys were happy with it! It didn't take long for the seasoned guys to figure out the desk.

But - I seem to have an issue with 5th channel strip. One led dead and lower audio output than on other channels... I was having a wrestle with myself whether to buy this or A&H GLD80. The financial issue won, X32 system was about half the price... And now I am already regretting my decision
Oh boy, I should have listened to the wise guys. You get what you pay for...

regards,

/Kari

Just running numbers, out of 20,000 sold we have heard of some problems and it is a brand new product. The GLD is the same iLive platform that is how many years old? I know I hate it when stuff doesnt work the right way but I have to say the AH Mixwiz/GL problems I have had this last year kept me from using them in critical situations. I hope the X32 discrpencies get worked out within a short time.
 
Re: X Control v0.91

Shane, I can't agree with you on this. Vocalists very often want the reverb back in their monitors. Especially the needy, insecure cabaret-type singers, usually female, (sorry about that ladies) whose monitor engineers often have to double as psychiatrists!
:D~:-D~:grin:

Mick Berg.

One of our European posters once used a signature line that said "I will be your psycho-acoustic caretaker today, but you may call me 'monitor guy'."
 
Re: New Firmware - no read-only scenes

I will see if I can get any info on this request.
We definitely hear you and all requests for X32 improvements.


Hi,


Maybe BEHRINGER can be the first company which installs a feater request system where customer can post feature requests or vote for one or the other request.


The company can reply to those requests with something like 'will be scheduled for the one of the next releases' or ' will be available in release x.xx' or even 'we do not want to implement this feature' or similar states.
This would be very helpfull for the community of the X32 universe.


Regards
Klaus Mock
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

Steve Maksim;44609 Cheer up! :)~:-)~:smile: [/QUOTE said:
Thanks! I'll try my best... but as I was sooo effing happy during the show and then smashed back on planet earth, I kind of reserve the right of being disappointed :lol:

One dead led is not a showstopper, but level differences are a warning sign to me. I can not reproduce level differences on other layers, so channels 5 and 21 seem to be ok except the dead led. The auxes 5 and 6 are linked and panned hard left and hard right. So it might be a co-insidence and that these two faults are separate issues, one being the dead led and the other being on Aux 5 preamp.

There is one thing that just now occurred my mind. During the show one of the engineer mentioned that "the gain settings were not as they were during the soundcheck", even though all bands were carefully saved on their own scenes... but all scenes were built on the same house channel list... hmmm! During the test today I just scrolled through the saved scenes. Could it be a hiccup in the initial scene change? But even so, checking the panning and gain settings today should have remedied this. Well, I think I'll make another check with a fresh scene - I don't trust computers...

BTW: What I am missing from the desk is a dedicated, locked Zero Out scene. Having mentioned this, the dedicated Zero Out scene could be edited to taste and locked by password, thus fulfilling the request of venue specific locked basic settings...

I'll go back to the desk and keep on testing... I'll keep you posted.

br,

/Kari
 
Re: No audio from PC via USB/Firewire

I got the board all setup and did a practice run last night at church, no problems at all! Went to playback some music from the PC and cannot seem to get the audio routing right. I was connected via the firewire, I have the drivers loaded on the PC and the control panel see's the board. When I play music I get nothing. I tried changing the default audio playback which lists the Behringer....aux01/02, Behringer....aux03/04, Behringer....aux05/06, Behringer....aux07/08 Since the board came with USB AUX return set on 7/8 I switched the default device to that set. Still nothing.

I then thought maybe its a USB only return so I downloaded the USB device drivers for the board. Installed them and did the same routing change in the windows control panel/sound. And changed the default audio device to Behringer....aux07/08. Still nothing

My observations:

1. I can "see" the audio playing in the default audio dialog box via the little audio meter beside whichever device I select.
2. When I goto the task bar and click on the speaker icon it shows which devices & programs are playing back music. In there I get no meters indicating audio is playing

Its a Windows 7 x64 PC.

Wayne

Silly question, but have you routed the card into the mixer in the ROUTING - home tab?
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

There is one thing that just now occurred my mind. During the show one of the engineer mentioned that "the gain settings were not as they were during the soundcheck", even though all bands were carefully saved on their own scenes... but all scenes were built on the same house channel list... hmmm! During the test today I just scrolled through the saved scenes. Could it be a hiccup in the initial scene change? But even so, checking the panning and gain settings today should have remedied this. Well, I think I'll make another check with a fresh scene - I don't trust computers...

More likely your balanced cable is not 100% ok, that could easily make a difference of 6dB. (Failing pin 2 or pin 3 at intervals) What was the source of this channel?
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

Thanks! I'll try my best... but as I was sooo effing happy during the show and then smashed back on planet earth, I kind of reserve the right of being disappointed

For sure. I'd be bummed, too.

BTW: What I am missing from the desk is a dedicated, locked Zero Out scene. Having mentioned this, the dedicated Zero Out scene could be edited to taste and locked by password, thus fulfilling the request of venue specific locked basic settings...

Since there are no permissions on the board right now, I would suggest saving the initial config on a memory stick or even your computer. You could even have a whole set of customized scene "templates" for whatever sort of work you typically do, to save on repetitive tasks.

And you're on the latest firmware, right? We're at 1.11.
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

More likely your balanced cable is not 100% ok, that could easily make a difference of 6dB. (Failing pin 2 or pin 3 at intervals) What was the source of this channel?

Thanks for the tip, but I ruled out the source and the cable as the first check. I used my iPod and and a signal generator for the test, also swapped the cables at the inputs. The lower level was on aux5 whatever I did.

I was using both the RCA and TRS inputs on the aux with same results.

So the fault is definitely at the desk.

BR,

/Kari
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

A&H makes some good gear. However, the LED's and A/D converters are basically the same, and I would be surprised if the assembly methods were appreciatively different, so your chance of having a problem with the GLD80 would have been roughly the same. You may be disappointed that you got the "lucky" board, but please try to keep this in prespective.
Sorry the calculus on reliability engineering is not roughly that simple. How those exact same parts are applied can matter a bunch.
Yes, there is often correlation between cost and quality, and you can't get "something for nothing," but quality is hardly proportional to cost. Just consider: if you hand-built a custom imitator of the GLD80 or X32 from scratch, even though you spent orders of magnitude more money the build quality still wouldn't be as good. Behringer is able to offer this price point because of very careful material selection (esp. the faders), streamlining of assembly, and, critically, high volume.

Cheer up! :)~:)~:smile:

This is an old theme for me to explain. "Quality" is often confused with presence or absence of higher cost features, so while there is a correlation with cost and feature content, quality technically has a subtly different definition, pretty much how well does a product meet expectations for it, or do what it is supposed to do. While the popular definitions of quality includes excellence or exceeding expectations, I find that several product characteristics like ruggedness or overhead (extra capacity) are actually costly features expected by professional customers for professional application (and paid for), so not quality per se, unless explicitly promised and lacking.

Quality control or quality assurance functions in professional organizations, pretty much monitor internal processes to confirm that products get built according to the design, and perform to design targets. This quality assurance can extend all the way to monitoring web forums to identify missed or incidental problems (problems associated with shipping half-way around the globe are not exactly new either.).

Cost and quality has an interesting relationship. It costs more to build a product wrong and repair/rework the mistakes, than build it correctly the first time. So coincidentally the cheapest manufacturing process involves building it right once (pretty obvious huh?). This is not a new concept either and techniques like SPC (statistical process control) not only test products for pass/fail, but measure process variable to confirm that test units not only pass, but are exactly in the middle (or better than) process target range. If the process shows any deviation from optimal, adjustments can be made to restore the process to dead center of the target, before ever making a single product that would fail to function or not work.

SPC, when a company can use this approach effectively can be a lot cheaper than 100% barrier testing and rework.

The quality of cheap mass produced consumer products like razor blades can be very high... when was the last time you got a faulty razor blade? Of course we are talking about far more complex SKUs here, with far more opportunity for faulty components and/or humans to make mistakes, but the concepts are the same and many component vendors deliver low PPM reject level quality (I recall better than 1PPM from some good vendors on very high volume components, while even great vendors drop the ball sometimes).

JR

PS: Actually razor blades are not very cheap, for just a few cents worth of plastic and steel, but hopefully you get my point.
 
Re: Faulty channel strip #5

And you're on the latest firmware, right? We're at 1.11.

Yep! FW 1.11 here...

I will make a test tomorrow with the signal generator to see if the commented gain level differences could be reproduced by making a few scene saves and changes... During the show it was not possible to test this and to be honest with you, I took it as an operator mistake then. Actually, the Aux level difference was detected during an intro playback, but I could verify it first at the warehouse. But just to rule out the gain level setting differences during scene save, I'll check and double check. I've seen so many times that a zero is not 0 with computers every time...

Other that this "slight disappointment", I'm happy with the desk, both from work flow and sound point of view. And I fell in love with the digital snake...

But I am glad that this was a gear service weekend... and not another show tonight. I'd been scared sh*tless...

Thanks for all who chimed in.

Best Reg's,
/Kari