X32 Discussion

Recording to Digital Performer?

Hi All,

Searching the thread doesn't yield any results to this question:

Has anyone been successful in recording using Digital Performer? If so, did you have to do anything special?

A client reeeeallllyyy wants to use that program with the X32, and I told him I'd ask here, being recording illiterate myself.

Thanks,
Dan
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

I remember someone from Behringer talking about the importance of having a UPS that will kick in under 20ms to keep the console from crashing or doing "odd" things. I've seen this personally happen with this console and a $150 'APC' UPS. I replaced it with a Minuteman (2/4 millisecond kick in time, or 6-10 as it said on the box) and it stopped the little odd short system mutes that would happen every now and then. That was without a digital snake though...

I just finished a show last week, used 250' of cat-6 utp (unshielded) to a couple s16's, also used those same boxes to output all the channels out into a Roland M-480 console, so I could use the p16-m's and get more channels for surround playback. I also used some M-48's in the bunch. Had another run of 250' cat-6 utp for the Roland digital snake. It was goofy complex but I could virtual souncheck pretty nicely to everything. I used cheap APC's for the UPS's and never had a hiccup, I've used them for years. Seems like the X32 and s16's are a little more picky with power glitches. Seems like shielded Cat-5 would be the most reliable, that's what comes with the Roland stuff, and also with the p16-m's...

Shane Presley said:
THIS scares the crap out of me, I haven't used the s16's live yet, and having full on pink noise come out of my rig would not only startle the audience, but would be a complete fail in my books, it's not happening . It's making me think long and hard about at least running copper between the desks. On a side note I had a look at my defective dca8 fader. You can see the belt slack when you slide the fader, so it's slipped the belt. The motor still " whines" when you change scenes so I think that's a good sign. Where does the " I told you so line start".... I'll take the first shift.....
Click to expand...
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Declan Slater said:
I remember someone from Behringer talking about the importance of having a UPS that will kick in under 20ms to keep the console from crashing or doing "odd" things...
Click to expand...

I just found that post tonight when looking for Digital Performer info, and it was Joe Sanborn saying that the console would restart if the supply voltage dropped below 85 volts for more than 20ms. There may have been something about the speed of the UPS kicking in, but it wasn't in that post.

Other posts by other people (I think Per was one?) have talked about the double conversion UPS's, which are always in line when operational, being the best way to ensure that the UPS "kicks in" in time, since there is zero "kick in".

FWIW.

Declan Slater said:
Seems like shielded Cat-5 would be the most reliable, that's what comes with the Roland stuff, and also with the p16-m's...
Click to expand...

Regarding shielded Cat 5, can that create some kind of ground loop/hum problem when AC for stage is different than AC for console?
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Peter van Gils said:
It's a simple Procab plastic CDM100 with unshielded cat6 cable. Sofar, I had only one incident which - I think - is reasonable to occur given the circumstances of that incident.

edit: the stand of the CDM100 is metal.
Click to expand...

Good, thank you, I was asking just in case the cable was wrapped around a steel hub, but it sounds like it isn't.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

Peter van Gils said:
Hmm. Maybe this helps pinpointing the issue: I have a 50m CAT6 on a drum reel. Last Sunday I had it unrolled for about 10m and the drum reel was standing close to a wall outlet. During a break of the band I unplugged a battery charger from that wall outlet and got a short burst of noise followed by a short silence (of background music) due re-syncing of X32 and S16. You may have had a similar issue: a sparking switch near the cable (eg cat cable close to a power supply cable of a fridge)?

I don't consider this as a real issue as long as the system keeps sync when the charger (or anything else) is unplugged from a more distant wall outlet. I think all digital connections will suffer from this...
Click to expand...

A friend just bought an A&H GLD mixer, and the sales guy / rep told him that the data cable should always be unwound from the drum fully "or dropped packets and/or other digital issues may occur".

Wondering if these may be related - running long lengths of data cable wound on a reel has real-world problems attached.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

If data is being sent down the cable as AC signals (which in Ethernet and all broadband networks is) then surely reeling up the cable has the same effect as it would on a power cable in the fact that it works like an inductor which can create resistances and other unwanted artefacts in the cable, also I presume that interference from other parts of the length of cable on the drum may interfere with each other. If this is wrong by any means correct me.
 
cable testing tonight

Hello

I plan to make a test tonight with my self-made snake.
It has cat-5 and powercable wrapped around each once about every 20cm/8inch. Total lenght about 20 meters/65 feet

I have in mind two tests - both with cable fully coiled AND fully stretched - snake reel is metal.

I´ll connect two S16 and X32.
I will power S16 x32 separate from snake power-cable in order to avoid any of test-induced stuff to get into system via S16 6 X32 PSU:s
Also I think that it might be better to have 100% of "dirty" power than 50/50 "dirty/clean"


I will leave all inputs open with minimum gain in order to not bring anything to hear into system.
I will open all faders up to 0 - channels and master.

For reference I will listen to master output without anything connected to snake power cable - and measure result, if I can.

Test 1 Run about 6A lamp load with analog dimmerpack to "see" / hear if it induces anything into CAT - tweaking dimmer to get some noise.

Test 2 ( this one I learned at Turck Multiprox MN )
connect a power-relay / contactor / toroid x-former as load - using a rough file and cheap voltmeter-probe as switch - swiping probe along
file produces very uneven connections, that causes large spikes into power cable. ( feed power cable in normal outlet - no dimmer. )
we used to test industrial proximity switces like this - it was much more difficult test than the "industry standard" those days.

Test 3 If anybody has suggestions of some other things, I might try do that as well, while at it.

I´ll start testing in about 4 hours after posting this - so hurry with your ideas.
 
Re: cable testing tonight

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
Hello

I plan to make a test tonight with my self-made snake.
It has cat-5 and powercable wrapped around each once about every 20cm/8inch. Total lenght about 20 meters/65 feet

I have in mind two tests - both with cable fully coiled AND fully stretched - snake reel is metal.

I´ll connect two S16 and X32.
I will power S16 x32 separate from snake power-cable in order to avoid any of test-induced stuff to get into system via S16 6 X32 PSU:s
Also I think that it might be better to have 100% of "dirty" power than 50/50 "dirty/clean"


I will leave all inputs open with minimum gain in order to not bring anything to hear into system.
I will open all faders up to 0 - channels and master.

For reference I will listen to master output without anything connected to snake power cable - and measure result, if I can.

Test 1 Run about 6A lamp load with analog dimmerpack to "see" / hear if it induces anything into CAT - tweaking dimmer to get some noise.

Test 2 ( this one I learned at Turck Multiprox MN )
connect a power-relay / contactor / toroid x-former as load - using a rough file and cheap voltmeter-probe as switch - swiping probe along
file produces very uneven connections, that causes large spikes into power cable. ( feed power cable in normal outlet - no dimmer. )
we used to test industrial proximity switces like this - it was much more difficult test than the "industry standard" those days.

Test 3 If anybody has suggestions of some other things, I might try do that as well, while at it.

I´ll start testing in about 4 hours after posting this - so hurry with your ideas.
Click to expand...

When the CAT cable is not shielded and you put it close to dimmed electrical sources, you might notice some audio artifacts...at least in theory. Let's see, if this is true in a real world scenario.
Keep us updated, what you found out!
Christian
 
Re: cable testing tonight

Timo Ulkuniemi said:
Hello

I plan to make a test tonight with my self-made snake.
It has cat-5 and powercable wrapped around each once about every 20cm/8inch. Total lenght about 20 meters/65 feet

I´ll connect two S16 and X32.
I will power S16 x32 separate from snake power-cable in order to avoid any of test-induced stuff to get into system via S16 6 X32 PSU:s
Also I think that it might be better to have 100% of "dirty" power than 50/50 "dirty/clean"

I´ll start testing in about 4 hours after posting this - so hurry with your ideas.
Click to expand...

I would like to see if there is a difference if the snake and the x32 are plugged into the same source, and if that source is on a ups, and not on ups.

I would also like to know if your CAT 5 cable is shielded or not.
 
Re: AC and signal cable of whatever type

I've been running the digital snake system from Roland for over 4 years now. I've had it run for long distances next to ac (never wrapped though), stepped on by crowds all day, and hooked to different circuits from completely different panels or even seperately derived sources (like generators). I've used shielded and utp for runs up to 300', and most of those had a wrapped coil of extra cable at the end. Never had a problem, other than a staging cart flattening it once. UPS's that kick in in less than 20 ms are important. Shielded cable helps make long runs (200'+) work more reliably. Shielded cable does not cause hum problems due to the all digital nature of the signal. You can run the mixer on a seperate power source with a digital snake with no hum /buzz (like you'd see on an analog snake).

Dan Mortensen said:
I just found that post tonight when looking for Digital Performer info, and it was Joe Sanborn saying that the console would restart if the supply voltage dropped below 85 volts for more than 20ms. There may have been something about the speed of the UPS kicking in, but it wasn't in that post.

Other posts by other people (I think Per was one?) have talked about the double conversion UPS's, which are always in line when operational, being the best way to ensure that the UPS "kicks in" in time, since there is zero "kick in".

FWIW.



Regarding shielded Cat 5, can that create some kind of ground loop/hum problem when AC for stage is different than AC for console?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Recording to Digital Performer?

Hi Dan
I use DP 8.01 and I have recorded several shows on a 2012 Macbook pro/ 2GHz Intel Core i7. Track-count was on one test show all 32 with only 12 tracks had actual signal routed to. But for test purpose I recorded all 32 tracks. Show had 2 sets app 45min. each. Next show had 19 tracks and again 2x45 min sets. I use a firewire 400 to 800 cable as my MBP has only FW 800. all recordings so far went smooth with no glitches at all. Hope this helps, regards, Till
 
Re: X32 patching

I have a "what if" question for an upcoming gig I have.

I have an X32, and 2 S16 snakes. My band currently uses an o1V96 as an in-ear mixer. I dont want to bring a big ass wired split snake to get patched into the yamaha. The band is only 16 channels (14 if I drop the stereo guitars). Could I assign the 14 outputs on the s16 to be channel direct outs and patch from the S16 outputs right into the 01V? This would be a back saver (gig is upstairs).

If I wanted to use all 16 outputs on the s16, could I still use 15,16 on the console (main out - hardwired on XLR), would I have to bring L + R , out on AUX outputs (hardwired to the stage via TRS adapter to XLR).

cheers
SP
 
Re: X32 patching

Hi Shane, you don't need to bring your copper splitter. Just do as you proposed. patch the direct outs to the S16 outs and for left /right PA run 2 cables from the local outs 15/16 of the X32. I did this before and it work just fine. Hope this helps, regards, Till
 
Re: X32 patching

Till Erb said:
Hi Shane, you don't need to bring your copper splitter. Just do as you proposed. patch the direct outs to the S16 outs and for left /right PA run 2 cables from the local outs 15/16 of the X32. I did this before and it work just fine. Hope this helps, regards, Till
Click to expand...



SWEEEEET - thanks, I'm such a dumb ass - I've already lugged my 48 ch multipin split ( w 250' of copper) to two gigs...ugh...

Now if only we can make sure the damn snake heads won't plop plop fizz fizz, we'll be good !!
Thanks for confirming Till
 
Re: X32 patching

Last show I did, I used all outs on both s16's and the console with the auxes too to feed another console... No problems... 38 outs.

Shane Presley said:
SWEEEEET - thanks, I'm such a dumb ass - I've already lugged my 48 ch multipin split ( w 250' of copper) to two gigs...ugh...

Now if only we can make sure the damn snake heads won't plop plop fizz fizz, we'll be good !!
Thanks for confirming Till
Click to expand...
 
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