X32 Discussion

[brian maddox]

Re: X32 solo channel

Nope, it's voodoo bullshit. Seriously.

The reason for external word clock is to make multiple digital devices work together without clock synchronization issues.

Yes. yes it is.

Eric, your mistake is in assuming that just because many people have asserted something as being true [on the internet no less] that it is, in fact, true. All empirical testing regarding external wordclock and it's ability to improve the sound of digital devices has either proven that the sound was 'worse' [i.e. less like the original sound] or unchanged. A/D and D/A converters matter. External Wordclock not so much.

And FWIW, the gap between 'bad converters' and 'great converters' keeps getting smaller and smaller...

 

[Shane Presley]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Spenser, I've been stewing over this too... nothing seems out of place... Very minimal sent to FX1 , the only thing I could think of is maybe something got pushed, or it was literally feedback in the room ( mic to pa), the gains are rather hot on the LX.

 

[Kevin Hunter]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

New versions of the iPad and iPhone apps have now been released . Release notes just says minor fixes

kev

 

[Chris Wadden]

Re: X32 solo channel

Nope, it's voodoo bullshit. Seriously.

The reason for external word clock is to make multiple digital devices work together without clock synchronization issues.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking, and why I asked. I don't think there are different "qualities" of clocking, it can't be better or worse. But there can be slight variations in speed between different digital devices, and end up causing jitter. Bring in external word clock, which all devices run from at the same speed.

 

[Jan Duwe]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

...Yesterday was an interesting one, I wasn't on the board, but I had my XiControl app running watching all levels *just incase* it happened, and guess what, it did!

I took a screen cap of what the ipad was showing for levels at the time...

Dear Joseph,

Did you save the console state to a scene, when it happened? Could you share it with us (or pm me, if you prefer).

Best,
Jan

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Dear Joseph,

Did you save the console state to a scene, when it happened? Could you share it with us (or pm me, if you prefer).

Best,
Jan

+1. And I guess I wasn't specific enough, I meant the screen that comes up initially when you press the Effects button. I know from experience that there are some routing goofs you can make there that lead to some harsh digital feedback.

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Spenser, I've been stewing over this too... nothing seems out of place... Very minimal sent to FX1 , the only thing I could think of is maybe something got pushed, or it was literally feedback in the room ( mic to pa), the gains are rather hot on the LX.

I can verify that nothing got "pushed", this issue has happened while noone was connected remotely (ethernet unplugged), and noone touching the board. I think the key is the "pop", which to me, means there must be some static or electrical discharge, after which point, internally to the software/hardware, there is a problem that is unaccounted/unprotected for (hopefully fixed in a firmware update). I don't think it was actual feedback in the room, we have a pretty controled enviroment, very few mic's were actually active at the time (as you can see from my ipad screencap).

Dear Joseph,

Did you save the console state to a scene, when it happened? Could you share it with us (or pm me, if you prefer).

Best,
Jan

+1. And I guess I wasn't specific enough, I meant the screen that comes up initially when you press the Effects button. I know from experience that there are some routing goofs you can make there that lead to some harsh digital feedback.

I've uploaded and posted a scene file a few pages back(http://www.joesiv.net/misc/SSGRADNIGHT.scn). But we haven't touched any routing for the effects, in fact we've restored to factory presets (which I would hope are safe), and still had the problem occur. I don't have a scene file from yesterday though.

There was effects being sent from ch 3 and ch 4 I believe, no others. When I dropped the sends on faders for effects 1 down on ch 3 and 4 the problem slowely went away (according to levels indicator).

What is interesting is, input ch 3 and 4 were already muted prior to the problem occuring...

BTW, could someone describe what FX L/R are, that are spiking? Are they purely internal?

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Yesterday was an interesting one, I wasn't on the board, but I had my XiControl app running watching all levels *just incase* it happened, and guess what, it did!

I took a screen cap of what the ipad was showing for levels at the time:

My question is, how do the FX L/R signals work, is that internal, or linked to an external plug? I can tweak them on the ipad app, but I'd like to know what they actually are, and what they represent on the actual console, as I can't seem to figure out where the corresponding settings are on the console.

The FX are the levels from the output of your effects, back to whatever you did rout them into.
You can adjust these levels on the 3th layer, last 8 faders.
As far as I see, they are all on nominal level, I would assume, if you put them all down your master output should be clean...

However your FX 1 L-R is full level, but your mix busses are all quiet, so normally this is not something that can happen, or you have some delay or other effect with the feedback level much to high, so that when some pop or other sound triggers it, it goes in feedback and doesn't come out of it anymore. That's also what you describe as the ramp up...

I would check your effect on fx 1, try to rout some mic to it, and scream into it. If the ramp up does occur, try to find out if the feedback level of the applied effect is high and put it back all the way, try again if you be able to get it ramp up again.

The FX1 isn't used as an insert effect I assume?

If feedback level is all the way down and it still happens then something is probably wrong with your x32...

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Just an update, we've talked to our dealer and we'll probably get an interm X32 this week while they send this one back to Behringer, it'll be interesting to see if the issue goes away or not.

Yesterday was an interesting one, I wasn't on the board, but I had my XiControl app running watching all levels *just incase* it happened, and guess what, it did!

I took a screen cap of what the ipad was showing for levels at the time:

This was just as it happened, nothing was tweaked or muted before I took the screen cap, so the red muted channels and faders are where they were at the time.

There was no band, just a single wireless lapel going through ch 16. There was a pop, and a slow ramp, just like it used to do (recently we'd had more of a crackle and a very quick ramp).

My question is, how do the FX L/R signals work, is that internal, or linked to an external plug? I can tweak them on the ipad app, but I'd like to know what they actually are, and what they represent on the actual console, as I can't seem to figure out where the corresponding settings are on the console.

I'm still not convinced that there isn't something happening in ways of fingerfaults at the board, so I'm going to repeat my request for a "live" scene dump. I suggest that you mute the mains and nothing else, and then save the scene.
The most common mistake in a live situation seems to be that things are inadvertantly changed when in sends-on-faders mode or on the wrong layer. It is easily done, and not alwas obvious that it has occured.


EDIT: BTW, have you installed a UPS?

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

The FX are the levels from the output of your effects, back to whatever you did rout them into.
You can adjust these levels on the 3th layer, last 8 faders.
As far as I see, they are all on nominal level, I would assume, if you put them all down your master output should be clean...

However your FX 1 L-R is full level, but your mix busses are all quiet, so normally this is not something that can happen, or you have some delay or other effect with the feedback level much to high, so that when some pop or other sound triggers it, it goes in feedback and doesn't come out of it anymore. That's also what you describe as the ramp up...

I would check your effect on fx 1, try to rout some mic to it, and scream into it. If the ramp up does occur, try to find out if the feedback level of the applied effect is high and put it back all the way, try again if you be able to get it ramp up again.

Thank you for the info, I'll do this test some time this week, maybe tomorrow.

The FX1 isn't used as an insert effect I assume?

No, we have no insert effects. We do have aux out 1, 2 connected to an external distribution amplifier, however, the issue still occured with that disconnected.

If feedback level is all the way down and it still happens then something is probably wrong with your x32...

When you say feedback level, I assume you're talking about those faders you speak of, I would bet that it would make the problem go away, to be honest. But that would also effectively remove all effects for us, we could do it once the band is done, to avoid it happening during the speaking portion though. I guess this does help isolate it down though, it doesn't happen on input, it doesn't happen on output (bus), but seems to be isolated to the effect its self.

I'm still not convinced that there isn't something happening in ways of fingerfaults at the board, so I'm going to repeat my request for a "live" scene dump. I suggest that you mute the mains and nothing else, and then save the scene.
The most common mistake in a live situation seems to be that things are inadvertantly changed when in sends-on-faders mode or on the wrong layer. It is easily done, and not alwas obvious that it has occured.

The next time it happens, we will do this, good suggestion.

EDIT: BTW, have you installed a UPS?

Yes, we have a UPS, it's a leibert, forget the model name.

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

When you say feedback level, I assume you're talking about those faders you speak of, I would bet that it would make the problem go away, to be honest. But that would also effectively remove all effects for us, we could do it once the band is done, to avoid it happening during the speaking portion though. I guess this does help isolate it down though, it doesn't happen on input, it doesn't happen on output (bus), but seems to be isolated to the effect its self.

No the feedback level I'm talking about is within the effect itself. Go to the effect screen, and you will see some rotary underneath the screen adjusting feedback level. However the availability depends on the sort of effect chosen.

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

No the feedback level I'm talking about is within the effect itself. Go to the effect screen, and you will see some rotary underneath the screen adjusting feedback level. However the availability depends on the sort of effect chosen.

Oh, right obviously

Anyways, I'm in front of the board right now, trying all sorts of things to contort it into exhibiting the problem. I can get some pops when unplugging devices, I've tried making lots of high signal sounds into various mics', I've gotten plenty of feedback, but just the general stuff (peaking on inputs and outputs), but nothing that really seems to push the FX L/R. It moves, but always stays in control. Any other suggestions while I'm kicking around here are welcome.

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Any other suggestions while I'm kicking around here are welcome.

If you have a DCA over, I would assign all of your effect returns (FX1 - FX4) to that, so that in case of a new feedback you can adjust it with just one fader.

 

[Gayle Snedecor]

Re: X32 Permissions

lol, hope you're not serious. It was honestly a big consideration, we demo'd one, and the permissions control was a big selling point for us. However, for everything else, the X32 is exactly what we need, more channels, digital pre-amps, motor faders (in this price range), more industry experience. So no, I won't get a presonus, but if i can make suggestions for the X32 to be better, why not?


Absolutely, though, I agree with Jimmy, that a subset should be available on the X32's console, primarily permissions, I'd like to be able to enable/disable devices that have access to the console from the console its self.

A separate application, whether it be a tablet app or even a PC/MAC app would be fine in my circumstances, and indeed it'd probably be a better interface than the X32, since the X32 is a pain to enter things like text (wish it had keyboard support).

As for a Thirdparty doing it, I've been thinking about extending the X32's abilities, perhaps if I have some time The only problem is, the X apps all interface directly with the console, so doing permissions is challenging/impossible without firmware support(or software support in Behringer apps).


Actually, while we're on the "wish list train", I'd like exactly what you're saying, but only if we had some form of permissions setup to dis-allow doing it ha ha.

But in our situation, I've been thinking that this would be ideal, because there are somethings that we'd like to farm out to other volunteers, like simply handling the wireless mic', muting and unmuting, or levels. We could have someone with a simple interface that had 1 or 2 basic functions on screen, mute and fader, none of the confusion of the whole Xi Control ipad app.

You know, just thinking, this could be done with a separate wireless router! You could set up a subnet with only the X32 on the wired portion of the router. Anything you wanted to connect had to connect wirelessly. You could set up the router with wireless DHCP with MAC access control.

Granted, you would get binary "all or nothing" access or no access to the console, but it would keep Johnny 10th grader with his iPad on the 4th row from the back from adding a 4-second delay to the Main L/R!!!

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: X32 Permissions

You know, just thinking, this could be done with a separate wireless router! You could set up a subnet with only the X32 on the wired portion of the router. Anything you wanted to connect had to connect wirelessly. You could set up the router with wireless DHCP with MAC access control.

Granted, you would get binary "all or nothing" access or no access to the console

This is the normal way of setting up a wireless connection to the x32.
And yes with good password protection nobody does control your console...

but it would keep Johnny 10th grader with his iPad on the 4th row from the back from adding a 4-second delay to the Main L/R!!!

The ONLY thing you can't do with the ipad app, is adding delay on the (analog) outputs. And I would like to be able to do it, because I can walk around and adjust this delay and listen if it is good. Now I have to take the laptop wireless through the venue. ~:-(~:sad:

 

[Joseph Schuurman]

Re: X32 Permissions

This is the normal way of setting up a wireless connection to the x32.
And yes with good password protection nobody does control your console...

Yep, having a private network is good for setting up permissions, and restricting access to these types of things. For some venue's, there will be band members that swap in or out, or just various different bands in general, so one day this person should have access, and another day they shouldn't. This is where the interface is the problem, yes, we could have the sound people logging into the router's interface, and trying to block off and add MAC address', but really, it's not really a good work flow. Besides not really solving the problem of people having too much control, when they're allowed to have some.

 

[Gunnar Ã…kerlund]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Hello!

I had about the same problem with endless feedback in the effects. On installation a X32 on a band we came to a point when all channels, buses and the FX where set up and worked. We took a lunchbrake and when we came back the FX was silent. After reboot the FX worked for a while but soon the a high pitched tone started like a feedback. I couldnt manage to get things right so I took the scene to another X32 and everything worked fine. After posting the scene and got feedback from other users a took that info and did another try the feedback came back even if everything if everything on the mixer was muted. The mixer was replaced by Luthman here in Sweden. Now I only have to make the swap with the band.

 

[Glenn Teuber]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Wohh !!!

When we will get a ANDROID APP ??????????

.....

Any news about the next Firmware update ?

i can make me nude and nobody answer ;-)

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

When it's ready no earlier.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Pop. crackle and feedback problems

Hello!

I had about the same problem with endless feedback in the effects. On installation a X32 on a band we came to a point when all channels, buses and the FX where set up and worked. We took a lunchbrake and when we came back the FX was silent. After reboot the FX worked for a while but soon the a high pitched tone started like a feedback. I couldnt manage to get things right so I took the scene to another X32 and everything worked fine. After posting the scene and got feedback from other users a took that info and did another try the feedback came back even if everything if everything on the mixer was muted. The mixer was replaced by Luthman here in Sweden. Now I only have to make the swap with the band.

Funny, what kind of hardware fault can cause that to happen? It seems awfully specific to be caused by a hardware fault.
Have you had any feedback from Luthman afterwards about the returned mixer?